List Mgmt. 2024 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

 

[Bloods86]

Kinda bummed it looks like our trade period is basically gonna amount to just another 3 or 4 teenagers. The likelihood is they won't move the needle much or improve the list while we are in a premiership window in the primes of Heeney, Papley, Mills, etc.

But I suppose there is always a chance one or two could come out of nowhere a la Papley in his first year. Hopefully a small forward among them.

I'm not as fussed.

There's a few groups of players that I think can have an improved year, based on return from injury, another year into a new role, purely based on age (just turned 24 or under) and a few that have had a taste of senior action or have shown promise in needed roles, that might see senior action.

Injury Return / Extra Off-Season in role
Mills
Heeney
Jmac

Age Based Improvement
Rowbottom
Jordon
Warner
Campbell
McDonald
Gulden
Roberts

Fresh Faces
Sheldrick
Cleary
Hanily
Buller

We're apparently interested in at least one or two mature agers as well e.g Tom Murphy, so it's not necessarily just teenagers that will be coming in via the draft.

 

[Kbroome]

I'm not as fussed.

There's a few groups of players that I think can have an improved year, based on return from injury, another year into a new role, purely based on age (just turned 24 or under) and a few that have had a taste of senior action or have shown promise in needed roles, that might see senior action.

Injury Return / Extra Off-Season in role

Mills
Heeney
Jmac

Age Based Improvement
Rowbottom
Jordon
Warner
Campbell
McDonald
Gulden
Roberts

Fresh Faces
Sheldrick
Cleary
Hanily
Buller

We're apparently interested in at least one or two mature agers as well e.g Tom Murphy, so it's not necessarily just teenagers that will be coming in via the draft.

Agree with this i think a restructure of the forward line does have the job with the improvement. Also think this is a big year for Campbell especially if they go to the 2-2-2 forward structure as he has the pressure forward player written all over him

 

[Kiama Chris]

I'm surprised I haven't seen a suggestion to rookie Ben Edwards. No?

 

[Andyjh]

I'm not as fussed.

There's a few groups of players that I think can have an improved year, based on return from injury, another year into a new role, purely based on age (just turned 24 or under) and a few that have had a taste of senior action or have shown promise in needed roles, that might see senior action.

Injury Return / Extra Off-Season in role
Mills
Heeney
Jmac

Age Based Improvement
Rowbottom
Jordon
Warner
Campbell
McDonald
Gulden
Roberts

Fresh Faces
Sheldrick
Cleary
Hanily
Buller

We're apparently interested in at least one or two mature agers as well e.g Tom Murphy, so it's not necessarily just teenagers that will be coming in via the draft.

Im glad someone else sees what i see. The dynasty is just beginning. 2025 may just well be an undefeated season.

 

[caesar88]

I'm not as fussed.

There's a few groups of players that I think can have an improved year, based on return from injury, another year into a new role, purely based on age (just turned 24 or under) and a few that have had a taste of senior action or have shown promise in needed roles, that might see senior action.

Injury Return / Extra Off-Season in role
Mills
Heeney
Jmac

Age Based Improvement
Rowbottom
Jordon
Warner
Campbell
McDonald
Gulden
Roberts

Fresh Faces
Sheldrick
Cleary
Hanily
Buller

We're apparently interested in at least one or two mature agers as well e.g Tom Murphy, so it's not necessarily just teenagers that will be coming in via the draft.

I agree that it's reasonable to expect most or all of those players can improve on this year, I just think there are some areas on our list that we're still quite shallow in and that then sort of bleeds into the best 22 & the game plan.

ie. Our lack of quality smalls meant Horse & co went with a very slow forward line lacking pressure almost through lack of alternatives. Our lack of genuine midfield options meant Horse & co gave more inside time to Warner & Gulden when they're probably better suited to other roles.

And one could say 'ok well that problem is fixed by Cleary, Mills, Sheldrick, done.' But then what if there's injuries? Our structures can't just go to shit the minute two or three players in those roles go down. So I think we need more AFL-ready options on the list.

I realise of course that fixing some of the above issues also relies on the coaches recognising those issues and actively wanting to fix them and not just sticking to what they did this year.

 

[ShireSwan]

Simple solution and it’s very very easy. We don’t need three talls period. Logan as the centrepiece forward so he plays FF. You pick one of Buller/McLean/Amartey. Whoever can most cover the ruck well.

Then you add another small to medium forward that may be via the draft that may be Hanily. That may be Caiden Cleary.

Bottom line I felt all year we were too tall especially when two of the talls are pretty cumbersome in McLean/Grundy.

We are not playing Blakey forward go to the nearest bin and bin the idea it ain’t happening

McLean got to go.
I like him. He is an honest toiler, and in team zipping in passes to a forward line not stuck half way up the ground defending the forward 50 exits he might be a good forward. Reliable. But...
His ruck work isn't good enough to warrant him taking up a forward spot with the system we have. And he's not long enough to take down the line contested marks regularly, nor quick enough to do much else.We can have anyone in there giving Grundy a rest. Put in Papley for all I care.

But Amartey will want to improve on his consistency.

Playing McLean forward in the ressies might allow us to play Hamling back again and actually have a decent back up option at KPD should it be needed.

A mix of Heeney, Blakey & Tauru forward at times might work to cover McLean's spot.
Betcha they give Blakey a go there in preseason.
Fox/Tauru can do what he's doing running it out of the back half while he's down there.

 

[Rhino5]

What makes everyone think we’re going to move away from the 3 tall set up? It’s glaringly obvious that we should, but I’m not convinced Horse will…plus we extended all 3 of them, which suggests we see them all as coexisting in our best 22, no?

 

[Punts]

What makes everyone think we’re going to move away from the 3 tall set up? It’s glaringly obvious that we should, but I’m not convinced Horse will…plus we extended all 3 of them, which suggests we see them all as coexisting in our best 22, no?

He won’t change imo

 

[Kbroome]

What makes everyone think we’re going to move away from the 3 tall set up? It’s glaringly obvious that we should, but I’m not convinced Horse will…plus we extended all 3 of them, which suggests we see them all as coexisting in our best 22, no?

Offseason Hope

 

[Bloods86]

Im glad someone else sees what i see. The dynasty is just beginning. 2025 may just well be an undefeated season.

I don't see that. I just don't buy the idea that we can't improve unless we trade in established players, and that we're going to be outpaced by teams that are actively trading this year.

 

[Ticky009]

I'm surprised I haven't seen a suggestion to rookie Ben Edwards. No?

I honestly thought it was something we were going to do - but then again nothing is certain.

 

[Kbroome]

I honestly thought it was something we were going to do - but then again nothing is certain.

Think it would have been considered in pretty much any year other than this given how deep this draft is. Think there is an extra 20-30 players that are worthwhile in this draft meaning that the rookie draft will be full of draftable/playable talent especially youngsters

 

[rustycrate]

Kinda bummed it looks like our trade period is basically gonna amount to just another 3 or 4 teenagers. The likelihood is they won't move the needle much or improve the list while we are in a premiership window in the primes of Heeney, Papley, Mills, etc.

But I suppose there is always a chance one or two could come out of nowhere a la Papley in his first year. Hopefully a small forward among them.

We spent and are currently trying to spend more(on Chad etc) to retain the core of this team. We supporters leading up to the GF applauded this. And so we should have. The core of another premiership remains at our feet. The core of a great team is still there starting in 2025.
However, the inability to convert GF appearances into wins is concerning. I think this is a mental thing and coaching thing. We are not switched on and prepared for the game. Look at our slow starts this year. Same thing. I don't know the answer. But talent is not holding us back from winning a GF. It is between the ears and in the coaching preparation not only for GFs but also for every game. Slow starts have proven this throughout this year.

If you think bringing in experienced players to displace current players we have then name them. I will give you are hint. They largely don't exist. The answer, IMO, does not lie in additional experienced personnel. It lies between the ears and possibly also in the coaching. We can make GFs. We know that.

Looking at the list we have an average Best 23 experience of about 130 games per player.
Our least experienced players are
Roberts 30
Amartey 53
Campbell 71

Who are you going to bring in that is going to dramatically change the team. Yep. Probably no one.
We have signed the core of this team to long term deals. That means that salary is constricted. Those players that we want as we well know either we can't afford or don't want to move to Sydney. Swans have tried over the last few year.

The answer to winning a GF lies in the current team. But a major off field investigation, conclusion, implementation of something that can change this team to start well in games and win well with a consistent brand of football that can win GFs.

Anyone hoping on an experienced player coming in and changing the status quo is delusional. There is ample scope for improvement from within. We can make GFs. We need to find the missing piece or pieces that can land us a win in the last game of the year.

 

[Dan87]

So your not only breaking up the best ruck duo in the comp but moving the best intercepting half back to the half forward. There is dumb and then there is this

Telling someone we have the best ruck combo when most fans and neutrals would disagree comes across as ignorant. Then, having a go at someone for having a different opinion to yours is a shit look.

IMO

 

[caesar88]

We spent and are currently trying to spend more(on Chad etc) to retain the core of this team. We supporters leading up to the GF applauded this. And so we should have. The core of another premiership remains at our feet. The core of a great team is still there starting in 2025.
However, the inability to convert GF appearances into wins is concerning. I think this is a mental thing and coaching thing. We are not switched on and prepared for the game. Look at our slow starts this year. Same thing. I don't know the answer. But talent is not holding us back from winning a GF. It is between the ears and in the coaching preparation not only for GFs but also for every game. Slow starts have proven this throughout this year.

If you think bringing in experienced players to displace current players we have then name them. I will give you are hint. They largely don't exist. The answer, IMO, does not lie in additional experienced personnel. It lies between the ears and possibly also in the coaching. We can make GFs. We know that.

Looking at the list we have an average Best 23 experience of about 130 games per player.
Our least experienced players are
Roberts 30
Amartey 53
Campbell 71

Who are you going to bring in that is going to dramatically change the team. Yep. Probably no one.
We have signed the core of this team to long term deals. That means that salary is constricted. Those players that we want as we well know either we can't afford or don't want to move to Sydney. Swans have tried over the last few year.

The answer to winning a GF lies in the current team. But a major off field investigation, conclusion, implementation of something that can change this team to start well in games and win well with a consistent brand of football that can win GFs.

Anyone hoping on an experienced player coming in and changing the status quo is delusional. There is ample scope for improvement from within. We can make GFs. We need to find the missing piece or pieces that can land us a win in the last game of the year.

I agree that the answer to winning a GF lies with the current team, but it's still a flawed and incomplete team IMO. I'm not suggesting we get rid of the lot of them or even get rid of anyone, just that more needs to be added to it. I think despite the minor premiership and making a GF, there are glaring holes in the team. And in all honesty I am not convinced that the options are there to fill those holes, especially if we have injuries.

Moving some magnets around will be a start and I think can go a long way to fixing the issues in the team, but it won't be enough if we get a few injuries, which could very easily happen.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I honestly thought it was something we were going to do - but then again nothing is certain.

Straight up. Not good enough. Honestly waste of time

 

[Bloods86]

I agree that it's reasonable to expect most or all of those players can improve on this year, I just think there are some areas on our list that we're still quite shallow in and that then sort of bleeds into the best 22 & the game plan.

ie. Our lack of quality smalls meant Horse & co went with a very slow forward line lacking pressure almost through lack of alternatives. Our lack of genuine midfield options meant Horse & co gave more inside time to Warner & Gulden when they're probably better suited to other roles.

And one could say 'ok well that problem is fixed by Cleary, Mills, Sheldrick, done.' But then what if there's injuries? Our structures can't just go to shit the minute two or three players in those roles go down. So I think we need more AFL-ready options on the list.

I realise of course that fixing some of the above issues also relies on the coaches recognising those issues and actively wanting to fix them and not just sticking to what they did this year.

We have several options for small forwards. I'm less convinced that Horse and Co are willing to try them consistently, than them not being able to do the job.

Your Warner, Gulden and Jordon types become your backups in midfield. I think there are others in the team that can do it as well. Roberts was drafted as a mid, Campbell, Florent are other options. Adams in bursts, though doesn't really have a 2nd position.

People might scoff at Florent etc. But looking back at the only time we had a midfield with Mills, Rowy and Heeney attending about 50% or more of CBs each (R1 2022), we also had Florent with 20 touches, 8 contested, 5 clearances (incl 4 of our 11 CCs), 4 tackles and 3 goals. We lost centre clearances but won clearances overall by towelling up the GWS mids at stoppages.

You could argue that we don't win a flag if 2 or 3 of your best in particular roles go down, but most sides would be like this. Lions don't get near the grand final if 2 or 3 of Neale, McCluggage, Dunkley, Ashcroft etc were down.

And that's also why mature agers should be looked at. Others and myself have posted about several inside mids that could do a role for us.

Outside of Kennedy (who probably doesn't want to leave Vic) and maybe Garcia, there probably weren't good options in these areas anyway. Now you might just be bummed that there's nothing happening, rather than that we're not trying, which is understandable, but I think there are other ways to address the issues that aren't just new draftees.

 

[Punts]

I don't see that. I just don't buy the idea that we can't improve unless we trade in established players, and that we're going to be outpaced by teams that are actively trading this year.

Have to agree

We are not going to drop of to much imo but I think the others active in trade period will jump us

A few think hawks will drop if but they are young and barass and battle , that’s a very string defence allowing Sicily forward a lot more with there big fella back to. There mid group is young.

Port are the ones dropping of for me

Lions get doodee , McCarthy abd the gun half back back. Loose Daniher but still very good

Cats are always there abouts and grab smith , if they get Oliver then they are a premiership shot imo

Everyone hates the idea but stinger is a match winner and I bet he makes gws almost the best attack , he will still kick over 40 and has break away speed from congestion and can get the game going forward at times

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Have to agree

We are not going to drop of to much imo but I think the others active in trade period will jump us

A few think hawks will drop if but they are young and barass and battle , that’s a very string defence allowing Sicily forward a lot more with there big fella back to. There mid group is young.

Port are the ones dropping of for me

Lions get doodee , McCarthy abd the gun half back back. Loose Daniher but still very good

Cats are always there abouts and grab smith , if they get Oliver then they are a premiership shot imo

Everyone hates the idea but stinger is a match winner and I bet he makes gws almost the best attack , he will still kick over 40 and has break away speed from congestion and can get the game going forward at times

Hey I’m not everyone. If we get pick 44 I’m trading for Stringer

 

[Punts]

Relying on sheldrick is dumb hope imo

We also need a kd that allows Mccartin to play interception

 

[Dan87]

Relying on sheldrick is dumb hope imo

We also need a kd that allows Mccartin to play interception

Problem with this is TMc's kicking skills are questionable and the position requires going for it more imo

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Problem with this is TMc's kicking skills are questionable and the position requires going for it more imo

Questionable you are beyond generous

 

[swanssince2002]

We are down so hard as a fanbase that some of us are willing to go for Stringer. But I would go for it. Polarising for sure, inconsistent but he can get hot. Still would be an upgrade as our 2nd KPF.

Hogan + Stringer would be tantalisingly good for GWS. Welp...

 

[strauchanie59]

Have to agree

We are not going to drop of to much imo but I think the others active in trade period will jump us

A few think hawks will drop if but they are young and barass and battle , that’s a very string defence allowing Sicily forward a lot more with there big fella back to. There mid group is young.

Port are the ones dropping of for me

Lions get doodee , McCarthy abd the gun half back back. Loose Daniher but still very good

Cats are always there abouts and grab smith , if they get Oliver then they are a premiership shot imo

Everyone hates the idea but stinger is a match winner and I bet he makes gws almost the best attack , he will still kick over 40 and has break away speed from congestion and can get the game going forward at times

Luckily for the rest of the competition, their veteran midfield has still yet to learn to defend.

+ their forward pressure with Stringer added would be relying on the flimsy hamstrings of Darcy Jones to stay intact.

 

[Bloods86]

Have to agree

We are not going to drop of to much imo but I think the others active in trade period will jump us

A few think hawks will drop if but they are young and barass and battle , that’s a very string defence allowing Sicily forward a lot more with there big fella back to. There mid group is young.

Port are the ones dropping of for me

Lions get doodee , McCarthy abd the gun half back back. Loose Daniher but still very good

Cats are always there abouts and grab smith , if they get Oliver then they are a premiership shot [emoji817] imo

Everyone hates the idea but stinger is a match winner and I bet he makes gws almost the best attack , he will still kick over 40 and has break away speed from congestion and can get the game going forward at times

I assume you mean disagree.

Interestingly Port have been one of the most active in trading in recent years, yet you think they are most likely to drop off.

I don't necessarily think Hawks drop off, but the risk in bringing in established KPPs from elsewhere is you try to play a more structured style like everyone else and you lose what got you up the ladder.

Bombers, Blues etc have won plenty of trade periods, but have they made any grand finals? Or won a final in the Bombers case.

Pies picked up Schultz after a flag and missed the finals.

People were hyping up Richmond re: Taranto and Hopper, and they are now stuck in a rebuild.

This also assumes that we're on a level playing field with teams like the Cats and these other Vic teams, which we aren't.