- Banned
- #26
I'll answer it for you pal, Frawley had the better season comfortably.
Review 24 - Ben Stratton (2019)
- Thread starter Dixie Flatline
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I'll answer it for you pal, Frawley had the better season comfortably.
- Banned
- #28
Yes I forgot our coaches can do no wrong and everything they do is gospel.
Bahahahaha!!
Stratts was rubbish last season.
just about every supporter knows he played below par, was beaten regularly, lost a step & was a s**t captain.
Love the argument for & against though... really do.
#bangthedrum
Stratts was rubbish last season.
just about every supporter knows he played below par, was beaten regularly, lost a step & was a s**t captain.
Love the argument for & against though... really do.
#bangthedrum
The one thing most of us can agree on is that Stratton was below his normal output in '19. However, he did vastly improved in the last 6 weeks of the season.
If I was guessing, I'd say the captaincy cloud was partially responsible. But all in all, he's had one below season in his whole career. I'll back him in to improve on 2019's performance.
If I was guessing, I'd say the captaincy cloud was partially responsible. But all in all, he's had one below season in his whole career. I'll back him in to improve on 2019's performance.
- Banned
- #31
Well grounded sensible post this one.
Gralin
Super Moderator
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- #32
No but as a group they thought that Stratts, Chip, Smith and Gunston were all middle of the table across the season.
So either you think the coaches are all idiots or maybe the gap between Chip and Stratton this year wasnt as big as you think it was when it comes to helping the team win.
None of them scored that highly in a team that finished 9th, im not saying stratton had a good year im asking why you and j2s and others are so dismissive of the pcm results for this
- Mar 21, 2017
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- BayernMunchen
Not sure about pcm voting but stratts kept falling over at critical moments in some games I watched last season, that’s the one thing I hated about his year, other than that I thought he improved as the season went.
- Aug 31, 2008
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I guess the whole entire board must make an apology to Stratton following his surprising PCM result - given he didn't get a single vote in this board's Yabby medal award.
Even Brand managed to get one.
Even Brand managed to get one.
Thanks,
I find them both a lot less baffling, now that you have put them together.
Gralin
Super Moderator
- Moderator
- #36
He's done that for a while. Had a bad patch this year but it's not new.
Of course happens too much and it's curtains.
I've posted about how different the yabby is to the PCM before.
Do keep acting like the coaches don't know s**t when you don't agree with it though.
Stratts has never polled as well in the yabby as he has in the pcm, underrated throughout.
- Aug 31, 2008
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Agree. The captaincy and the pinching saga seemingly had an effect on him. But prior to this year he's been one of the best and most underrated defenders in the league, taking talls and smalls alike. And we need that so that Sicily can do his thing.
I feel that the kudos that Grimes has finally been getting these last few years could equally apply to Stratton.
- Aug 31, 2008
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I'm posting about what I saw myself, with my own eyes, which formed my opinion. No one elses.
It doesn't matter how different the voting systems are. In any system where Stratton got literally zero votes, and Brand got one, says something about the season he had. Clearly the posters here thought similarly to what I do.
Gralin
Super Moderator
- Moderator
- #39
Group think is big on here though
People read post after post blasting stratus in the game day then go and vote
Coaches vote after reviewing tape.
They aren't infallible but your not interested in reviewing your opinion based on the coaches.
He didn't have a great first half of the year bar round one but after the suspension he came back more like the old stratts.
A season is more than just the first half. Like I said he was in the group around 10-14
He wasn't our best but he wasn't our worst.
cryptor
Brownlow Medallist
- May 11, 2008
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The coaches would vote on the PCM largely based on how well players fulfil their role for that match. None of us know for certain exactly what the role is for any given players nor by which specific KPIs they are being measured.
All we can really go off is what our eyes/gut tells us, plus whatever random stats we assign some value to. Stratton plays in a position that is chronically under-appreciated by the football world, so I expect his role would also likely be under-appreciated.
All we can really go off is what our eyes/gut tells us, plus whatever random stats we assign some value to. Stratton plays in a position that is chronically under-appreciated by the football world, so I expect his role would also likely be under-appreciated.
wahawk
Norm Smith Medallist
F##K
I forgot that mental note to myself not to come back to this thread til mid jan.
Kids, don’t drink to much when you are young, your memory turns to s**t.
I forgot that mental note to myself not to come back to this thread til mid jan.
Kids, don’t drink to much when you are young, your memory turns to s**t.
TheFourPillars
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- May 6, 2009
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Lol at this seriously lol mate as if these votes matter. By the way not everyone voted however in the PCM those that matter did anyways i have said my piece on this and no one at the club really cares what we all think about player performance or at least evaluation of player performance
- Aug 31, 2008
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My point in bringing up the award is that the posters in here must not have thought much of his season either, hence finishing with nothing behind the likes of Brand, Howe and Cousins. We were all wrong in thinking that, apparently.
I wonder what everyone thought of Lewis's 2nd place and Birchall's 4th place in 2016.
- Sep 15, 2009
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I agree, but..I..I..can’t help it
Brant
Brownlow Medallist
Again, it's likely not that we (Or the Coaches) were wrong - it's likely that we were measuring Stratts' 2019 against different criteria.
We (the poster masses) usually vote on an individual performance basis; based on the outcomes that we see.
I.e. Stratts opponent kicks 5 goals = Stratts had a bad game; however, the Coach may see that the entire opposition only kicked 9 goals & Stratts was influential in keeping their dangerous KPF to 0.3 for the day, allowing us to rebound at will & essentially win the game & is rewarded in PCM voting, whilst being smashed on these boards. Given how he seemed to perform individually & how our defence appeared to perform as a collective, I'd suggest this is the case for 2019.
Neither measure is 'wrong' & yet the performance seems very different, depending on your point of view.
YES - from my perspective - judging him against my metrics - Stratts was garbage at the start of 2019, but finished well. I would vote that way accordingly; however, I'd happily accept that others - when using a different method of measuring performance - would have a different outcome.
Again, how he received more votes than Chip makes no sense to me, so I gotta assume they measured performance differently to me.
Just to be clear, Stratts' 2019 was middle of the road... at best!
*Edit*: In support of your argument, I don't think people should throw "yeh but he finished Top 10 in the PCM" against you as you've clearly (IMO) articulated that you're measuring his 2019 performance against your metrics (whatwver they are) & not against those used in PCM voting.
Last edited:
- Jun 4, 2016
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If the case for whether Stratton had a good/decent year in 2019 (as a top 10 finish in a club B&F generally indicates) or a poor year (as is my belief) I believe the case (for both sides) is as follows;
FOR STRATTON HAVING A GOOD YEAR IN 2019
1. Top 10 finish in club B&F (voted on by AFL professionals who review each game in great detail)
FOR STRATTON HAVING A POOR YEAR IN 2019
1. 0 votes in the Yabby Medal (voted on by AFL fans but a large number of voters should reduce any positive or negative bias for individual players)
2. He had his worst season ever statistically averaging 9.21 disposals, 1.53 tackles & 3.37 marks compared to his career stats of 12.24 disposals, 2.50 tackles and 4.16 marks
3. This is a subjective measure but visually he appeared to loose his footing at critical times and his disposal was pedestrian at best. Also had a long run of games at the start/middle of the season where honestly it was hard to even remember if he played he had so little impact on the game.
4. "Pinchgate" was an embarrassment
Now given points 3&4 are subjective but as a body of evidence I believe the case for Stratts having a poor year is solid (you can't argue with the stats).
Regardless I think if AFL players were stocks then Ben Stratton would definetly be a "Watch" for 2020.
FOR STRATTON HAVING A GOOD YEAR IN 2019
1. Top 10 finish in club B&F (voted on by AFL professionals who review each game in great detail)
FOR STRATTON HAVING A POOR YEAR IN 2019
1. 0 votes in the Yabby Medal (voted on by AFL fans but a large number of voters should reduce any positive or negative bias for individual players)
2. He had his worst season ever statistically averaging 9.21 disposals, 1.53 tackles & 3.37 marks compared to his career stats of 12.24 disposals, 2.50 tackles and 4.16 marks
3. This is a subjective measure but visually he appeared to loose his footing at critical times and his disposal was pedestrian at best. Also had a long run of games at the start/middle of the season where honestly it was hard to even remember if he played he had so little impact on the game.
4. "Pinchgate" was an embarrassment
Now given points 3&4 are subjective but as a body of evidence I believe the case for Stratts having a poor year is solid (you can't argue with the stats).
Regardless I think if AFL players were stocks then Ben Stratton would definetly be a "Watch" for 2020.
Brant
Brownlow Medallist
But you have to acknowledge the fundamental change in role & consider how that may habe impacted his stats.
He used to be left alone, to focus on being a shut down defender, who could intercept or attack when able.
He was appointed Captain.
Now he's no longer able to play work the same focus (on 1 opponent) & his role is about ensuring that the 6 (Or 18) perform.
I agree with your observations regarding some of his individual performance attributes being less than in previous years, but as for the "stats don't lie" bit - his role changed dramatically due to the Captaincy & so they probably shouldn't be relied on as a measure of performance.
spudmaster
Brownlow Medallist
He improved his pinching? *shrug*
Gralin
Super Moderator
- Moderator
- #50
Lol
A large number of voters should remove bias
No, everyyhas their bias if more have a negative bias it reinforces the bias
Yabby is majority rules when picking 5 blokes to vote on its a very different system.
Fans have vary levels of understanding of the game and varying criteria for what they think is a good game.
Yabby has consistently underrated defenders over the Clarkson era compared to how the coaches rate their value in a win
