All Divisions General NFNL Discussion Thread

[NFNL Member]

You are wrong. They use to but not anymore. Well not last year clubs had to themselves

This will be interesting then if they bring in time on. No one has done it ever

 

[nosecondprize]

This will be interesting then if they bring in time on. No one has done it ever

I don't mind time on in the second half in finals. Too much dodgy stuff can get done when you know a flat time.
Do they stop the clock with no time if there is a stretcher?

 

[NFNL Member]

I don't mind time on in the second half in finals. Too much dodgy stuff can get done when you know a flat time.
Do they stop the clock with no time if there is a stretcher?

If the umpire blows his whistle to indicate time off, then the clock should stop. Then blows whistle again to indicate time back on. That's the other thing, young umpires have no experience blowing the whistle for time off/on in junior games as they have never had to worry about it.
This will be a complete shemozzle i reckon.
Will end up costing teams a finals win and could blow up massively.

 

[Denny Crane]

How Northern league grounds are holding up under increased local footy traffic​

Northern league clubs are training away and even playing away from home grounds as a huge increase in traffic takes a toll. How will it affect finals?

With local footy booming again post Covid, suburban grounds are paying a price.
A number of grounds across the northern suburbs are struggling with the increased traffic this year with senior football and booming numbers of junior and women’s teams all needing places to train and play.

In the Northern Football Netball League, Bundoora and Fitzroy Stars have been training at RMIT University, with the Stars playing their last two games there with Sir Doug Nicholls Oval currently unsafe.

Greensborough moved its Round 12 match from War Memorial Reserve to Watsonia’s Binnak Park to give its home an opportunity to recover.

St Mary’s has been training on nearby grounds to rest Whatmough Park, while the likes of Warringal Park, Eltham College, Montmorency Park and Yulong Reserve being closely monitored.

It is not unusual for grounds to be heavy in the middle of winter, but local footy traffic has never been higher, elevating the risk of injury.

Clubs are being asked to find alternative training methods to help get through the final six weeks of the campaign.

NFNL CEO Martin Stillman said councils and clubs were working together to ensure the longevity of grounds.

“When you’re one of the biggest community leagues and you’ve got a significant number of games as is the case in the NFNL you expect some deterioration of grounds especially in the middle of winter, some metropolitan leagues don’t have junior teams and therefore less traffic on their grounds,” he said.

“You look at some of our big clubs you’ve got multiple under-19s through to the lower aged junior teams there’s a fair bit of traffic.

“Overall, I think the clubs manage it well and councils do a good job of maintaining ovals and if there’s a week or two when it’s really heavy then councils and clubs work together, which is good, its smart venue management.

“Greensborough for example moved their game last week and it didn’t affect their performance or financial viability.

“We encourage clubs to look at alternative methods, being proactive in terms of training indoors, such as with the facility at LaTrobe, F45 classes, swimming classes, that can give some diversity for clubs and coaches and give grounds a reprieve.

“I don’t think it’s anything abnormal in comparison to other years and other leagues.”

Importantly for the league, with the business end of the season fast approaching, finals venues remain in good condition.

Whittlesea Showgrounds, Epping Recreation Reserve and Preston City Oval are expected to host the majority of finals this season.

The NFNL board will meet next week to confirm its 2023 finals venues for senior and junior football next week.

Stillman saw Whittlesea and Epping first-hand on the weekend.

“I was at Whittlesea and Epping, traditionally our finals grounds, and Epping was in fantastic condition and there was one small muddy patch on the wing at Whittlesea,” he said.

“Talking to my colleagues here, they said Whittlesea is in far better condition than it was this time last year.

“The league looks at all venues in terms of our finals and what’s best in terms of crowd attendance, standard of football and proximity etc.

“Coming into the league, best practice for me is to see how the finals series operates at our current venues, how the Rosbrook Medal works as how it’s currently structured and assess it with my own eyes and see if any changes moving forward might be made.”

Having been the NFNL’s choice of Division 1 and 2 grand final venue since 2007, Preston City Oval is expected to host both matches again this season.

“Preston, when you look at 1000 undercover seating, the ability to host our corporate lunch, parking can be problematic but realistically when you look at all venues there’s no venue across community leagues that has the perfect parking situation,” Stillman said.

“Cramer Street is a state league ground, the facilities are extremely good for players and spectators and the train and tram line for commuters to get to the ground.

“It’s the MCG of the North, Preston, and the ground has historically had some great finals matches and hopefully we’ll have a drier grand final day in 2023.”

No games are currently scheduled to change grounds with Fitzroy Stars hoping to be back at Sir Doug Nicholls Oval for its Round 14 clash against Kinglake.

 

[Denny Crane]

Having been the NFNL’s choice of Division 1 and 2 grand final venue since 2007, Preston City Oval is expected to host both matches again this season.

“Preston, when you look at 1000 undercover seating, the ability to host our corporate lunch, parking can be problematic but realistically when you look at all venues there’s no venue across community leagues that has the perfect parking situation,” Stillman said.

“Cramer Street is a state league ground, the facilities are extremely good for players and spectators and the train and tram line for commuters to get to the ground.

“It’s the MCG of the North, Preston, and the ground has historically had some great finals matches and hopefully we’ll have a drier grand final day in 2023.”

Main point here is they have their corporate lunch, anyone thinks otherwise is kidding themselves...

Oh and how great is the train and tram lines when 95% of supporters do not live on these lines.

Fat cats having corporate lunches (and kickbacks we never see), Preston running canteens making themselves money, these are what it is all about.

 

[Big Unit 30]

The MCG of the North eh

 

[Son of a Butcher]

How Northern league grounds are holding up under increased local footy traffic​

Northern league clubs are training away and even playing away from home grounds as a huge increase in traffic takes a toll. How will it affect finals?

With local footy booming again post Covid, suburban grounds are paying a price.
A number of grounds across the northern suburbs are struggling with the increased traffic this year with senior football and booming numbers of junior and women’s teams all needing places to train and play.

In the Northern Football Netball League, Bundoora and Fitzroy Stars have been training at RMIT University, with the Stars playing their last two games there with Sir Doug Nicholls Oval currently unsafe.

Greensborough moved its Round 12 match from War Memorial Reserve to Watsonia’s Binnak Park to give its home an opportunity to recover.

St Mary’s has been training on nearby grounds to rest Whatmough Park, while the likes of Warringal Park, Eltham College, Montmorency Park and Yulong Reserve being closely monitored.

It is not unusual for grounds to be heavy in the middle of winter, but local footy traffic has never been higher, elevating the risk of injury.

Clubs are being asked to find alternative training methods to help get through the final six weeks of the campaign.

NFNL CEO Martin Stillman said councils and clubs were working together to ensure the longevity of grounds.

“When you’re one of the biggest community leagues and you’ve got a significant number of games as is the case in the NFNL you expect some deterioration of grounds especially in the middle of winter, some metropolitan leagues don’t have junior teams and therefore less traffic on their grounds,” he said.

“You look at some of our big clubs you’ve got multiple under-19s through to the lower aged junior teams there’s a fair bit of traffic.

“Overall, I think the clubs manage it well and councils do a good job of maintaining ovals and if there’s a week or two when it’s really heavy then councils and clubs work together, which is good, its smart venue management.

“Greensborough for example moved their game last week and it didn’t affect their performance or financial viability.

“We encourage clubs to look at alternative methods, being proactive in terms of training indoors, such as with the facility at LaTrobe, F45 classes, swimming classes, that can give some diversity for clubs and coaches and give grounds a reprieve.

“I don’t think it’s anything abnormal in comparison to other years and other leagues.”

Importantly for the league, with the business end of the season fast approaching, finals venues remain in good condition.

Whittlesea Showgrounds, Epping Recreation Reserve and Preston City Oval are expected to host the majority of finals this season.

The NFNL board will meet next week to confirm its 2023 finals venues for senior and junior football next week.

Stillman saw Whittlesea and Epping first-hand on the weekend.

“I was at Whittlesea and Epping, traditionally our finals grounds, and Epping was in fantastic condition and there was one small muddy patch on the wing at Whittlesea,” he said.

“Talking to my colleagues here, they said Whittlesea is in far better condition than it was this time last year.

“The league looks at all venues in terms of our finals and what’s best in terms of crowd attendance, standard of football and proximity etc.

“Coming into the league, best practice for me is to see how the finals series operates at our current venues, how the Rosbrook Medal works as how it’s currently structured and assess it with my own eyes and see if any changes moving forward might be made.”

Having been the NFNL’s choice of Division 1 and 2 grand final venue since 2007, Preston City Oval is expected to host both matches again this season.

“Preston, when you look at 1000 undercover seating, the ability to host our corporate lunch, parking can be problematic but realistically when you look at all venues there’s no venue across community leagues that has the perfect parking situation,” Stillman said.

“Cramer Street is a state league ground, the facilities are extremely good for players and spectators and the train and tram line for commuters to get to the ground.

“It’s the MCG of the North, Preston, and the ground has historically had some great finals matches and hopefully we’ll have a drier grand final day in 2023.”

No games are currently scheduled to change grounds with Fitzroy Stars hoping to be back at Sir Doug Nicholls Oval for its Round 14 clash against Kinglake.

The chief in the driver's seat of the NFNL propaganda bus there. Not convinced of his research into his assertion about moving games not affecting financial viability, if boro have to shift another senior match they'll be in more brown stuff than the outer wing at War Memorial. Not to mention Fitzroy Stars paying around $250 an hour to use RMIT and not having an operating canteen.

As for Preston, at least he was honest about it being all about the corporate lunches... and yes, the trains and trams are great provided they are actually running!

 

[NFNL Member]

Main point here is they have their corporate lunch, anyone thinks otherwise is kidding themselves...

Oh and how great is the train and tram lines when 95% of supporters do not live on these lines.

Fat cats having corporate lunches (and kickbacks we never see), Preston running canteens making themselves money, these are what it is all about.

Yep, conflicts of interest, corruption, back handed deals and corporate lunches!!!
From finals venues, to the Junior Rep programme.
Imagine all the people running the junior rep programmes having side business charging thousands to get kids to rep level and then influencing selections!!! and you can imagine what else goes on behind closed doors!!!
Nothing has changed!!!

 

[NorthernBastard]

Preston is the best venue for the GF, and it's neutral.

It's not without its faults of course, but there's no better option IMHO.

 

[NFNL Member]

Preston is the best venue for the GF, and it's neutral.

It's not without its faults of course, but there's no better option IMHO.

the question being asked is, best for who???? and why?

 

[NorthernBastard]

the question being asked is, best for who???? and why?

Spectators (actually has a roofed stand if it rains, elevated terracing around most of the ground), spectacle (generally surface holds up well), players (Large rooms, good surface, feels like a big occasion when you play there), league (apparently they make money, based on earlier post)

Things I'd like to see improve would be the food/drink options - there is so much scope for improvement here, especially within this part of Melbourne if you were to tap into some food trucks/local breweries etc...

It's windy - but where isn't windy in September?

Public transport doesn't suit those on the hursty line.... Name a ground with public transport that suits everyone?

Parking is crap - But again, how many grounds have unlimited local parking? You'll never see a GF with cars parked around the ground

 

[Hornberger]

It's not without its faults of course, but there's no better option IMHO.

Vic Park?

Not fully fenced, but that could be fixed with temporary fencing.

Convenient public transport for people on both the Hurstbridge and Mernda train lines

I have no idea about the quality of the playing surface or the quality of facilities for players or spectators, but it is used for Collingwood's VFL team.

 

[NFNL Member]

Epping did the job for many many years and the surface is better now.

 

[NorthernBastard]

Vic park would be decent for everyone in terms of transport, but I suspect the overheads of putting on an event there are a lot higher than Preston.

Personally I can't see what Epping has to offer that Preston does not, But it does have a very nice surface the last time I was there.

 

[NFNL Member]

Vic park would be decent for everyone in terms of transport, but I suspect the overheads of putting on an event there are a lot higher than Preston.

Personally I can't see what Epping has to offer that Preston does not, But it does have a very nice surface the last time I was there.

clearly no corporate lunches!!

 

[10571z]

Spectators (actually has a roofed stand if it rains, elevated terracing around most of the ground), spectacle (generally surface holds up well), players (Large rooms, good surface, feels like a big occasion when you play there), league (apparently they make money, based on earlier post)

Things I'd like to see improve would be the food/drink options - there is so much scope for improvement here, especially within this part of Melbourne if you were to tap into some food trucks/local breweries etc...

It's windy - but where isn't windy in September?

Public transport doesn't suit those on the hursty line.... Name a ground with public transport that suits everyone?

Parking is crap - But again, how many grounds have unlimited local parking? You'll never see a GF with cars parked around the ground

There are many pros and cons. Last year the wind was down and it was quite good i thought. Parking wasnt too bad at the UNI.

The grand stand is of huge appeal i watched a game raining and kept dry while sitting down, it was fantastic. No other option has this.

I think Central Park Eltham or Diamond Creek would be fantastic and tick most boxes unless there is rain. Both grounds rarely wind effected.

 

[10571z]

Vic park would be decent for everyone in terms of transport, but I suspect the overheads of putting on an event there are a lot higher than Preston.

Personally I can't see what Epping has to offer that Preston does not, But it does have a very nice surface the last time I was there.

Vic Park? You have to be kidding. Would be zero atmosphere and miles away from any club.

Most drive and there is zero parking.

 

[nosecondprize]

Vic Park? You have to be kidding. Would be zero atmosphere and miles away from any club.

Most drive and there is zero parking.

Yeh have to agree. Vic Park is too far out.
Hate to say it, but I think Preston is the best option for now.

 

[10571z]

Yeh have to agree. Vic Park is too far out.
Hate to say it, but I think Preston is the best option for now.

unfortunately yes I think you are correct.

The grand stand is a massive advantage imo. It’s fantastic to watch from

 

[Denny Crane]

Said it before and will say it again, I think it's only a matter of time before Coburg and Preston join NFNL. This is the article in todays Herald Sun, there is NO WAY they can continue to compete against AFL Reserves and Pokie cashed up sides. They both have huge history and may hate coming down a league but to be honest, I reckon Heidelberg would compete against their current lists. I used to love going to Craemer St in the 70s and 80s but those days are so long gone its not funny. Time to point their clubs in the direction of their future.

VFL: Coburg, Northern Bullants and Frankston Dolphins barely standing against gambling revenue

The AFL is turning its back on gambling but pokies and profits have never had a bigger impact on the VFL. The league’s true competition is away from the field and in the clubhouses.

Hearts sank as a screenshot of the VFL app showing live scores pinged around the football community last Saturday.

At quarter-time Frankston trailed Gold Coast 0.1 (1) to 10.1 (61) and Northern Bullants trailed Brisbane Lions 0.0 (0) to 8.6 (54), while at halftime Coburg trailed Carlton 1.1 (7) to 9.10 (64).

After four quarters it was obvious that three proud clubs steeped in Victorian Football Association history were on their knees.

Coburg, Northern Bullants and Frankston Dolphins are 3-34 against the other 18 VFL teams this season.

They’re the stand-alone clubs who are barely standing.

But the main game is being played off the ground.

Problem gamblers are powering the other four stand-alone clubs – Werribee, Williamstown, Port Melbourne and Southport Sharks – to prosperity in a VFL world with minimal equalisation.

Next year they will be enriched by almost 600 pokies machines.

They are the stand-alone clubs on stilts.

Southport – which made last year’s grand final – is the Las Vegas of Australian sport and Werribee – on an 11-game winning streak – is becoming the Atlantic City.

Port Melbourne’s No.1 ticket holder is billionaire pokies king Bruce Mathieson and last year the club posted an eye-watering profit of $2,246,131.

Frankston’s profit last year was $1033 – the equivalent of one match payment to a star player.

The Dolphins’ main source of non-traditional income has been the Frankston Community Market.

But stalls on a Sunday morning cannot compete with the rivers of gold flowing 9am-5am everyday from Werribee’s first pokies den.

The Tiger Clubhouse’s 85 poker machines in Hoppers Crossing have generated close to $18 million in the past 18 months.

Werribee president Martin Carter described his club’s facilities as “superior to all clubs outside of the AFL”.

The Tigers will slot in another 70 poker machines when Club Tarneit opens its doors in Truganina next year.

They will gobble around $9 million in the first 12 months, according to an expenditure report from ShineWing Australia director Tim Stillwell.

Carter claimed Club Tarneit would be a “much-needed additional revenue stream”.

Goodness help Coburg, Frankston and the Bullants if that is the case.

In 2020 the pandemic pulled the plug on pokies — leaving Werribee and Williamstown seven figures in the red.

But their bottom lines improved by a combined $3.8 million in 2021 as Covid calmed (Werribee’s profit was $429,258, Williamstown’s $515,650).

Last year Werribee celebrated its 17th profit in 20 seasons — and it set a club record. But the figure was absent from the club’s 23-page annual report.

Perhaps embarrassed by its riches, the club again chose not reveal it when asked this week.

Dolphins treasurer James van Beek hit out at the stand-alone “imbalance”.

“Southport, Port Melbourne, Werribee and Williamstown all have gaming venues driving additional non-football revenues and providing a financial advantage to attract ex-AFL players and coaches and funding more administrative resources,” van Beek told Frankston’s annual general meeting.

“It is evident there is a direct correlation between winning and financial performance.

“Frankston, Coburg and Northern Bullants are disadvantaged, although being socially responsible, making it difficult to strive for and become financially sustainable and, by extension, competitive on-field.”

Coburg and Northern can only afford one full-time employee … and Coburg chief executive Sebastian Spagnuolo left last month. He has not been replaced.

Comparatively, the pokie powerhouses are playing with house money.

Werribee coach Michael Barlow credited three high-performance staff for their player availability being the envy of the league.

Barlow is full-time and supported by a string of part-timers. This masthead has been told Werribee has eight full-timers, but club boss Mark Penaluna insisted it was five.

Coburg’s 2020-24 strategic plan aimed to “be in a position of offering full-time terms to our senior coach”.

Entering 2023 that had not happened and so Andrew Sturgess quit to coach Calder Cannons, where Spagnuolo lobbed last week.

“The opportunity to go full-time and support my family was a no-brainer,” Sturgess said.

For years Coburg would pay just 25 per cent of the salary cap ($100,000 out of $400,000).

“You’d lay awake at night knowing we need to have $14,000 in the account for payroll to be able to pay the players for the last month, and we’ve only got $8000,” ex-Coburg general manager Craig Lees said.

“How the hell are we going to pay the players? You lose sleep. This is the stand-alone non-pokies environment.”

This year’s salary cap is $250,000 (up from $220,000) for stand-alone clubs and $125,000 for AFL and aligned clubs (up from $110,000).

One VFL coach said players were grossly underpaid. He questioned how a player close to making an AFL list could be on $4000-5000.

“We’ve got plenty of players on $250 a game that could be on $1000-1200 at local level, and then you’re asking them to play on a Thursday interstate and to take Wednesday, Thursday and potentially Friday off work which might cost them $500-600,” he said.

“You can’t keep paying the players that are a bee’s dick off being AFL level peanuts because it doesn’t help the brand moving forward.”

The threat of cashed-up local clubs poaching VFL talent is listed as a threat in Coburg and Williamstown’s strategic plans.

In 2015 Tasmanian Robbie Fox was torn between playing EDFL for Aberfeldie ($400 per game) or VFL for Coburg ($150 per game, $50 development league).

Fast cash understandably tempted the university student – but he signed at Coburg and then got drafted by Sydney.

Phew.

But how many young guns in Fox’s shoes have chosen dollars over AFL dreams?

The AFL said it adjusted the salary cap “to assist clubs in retaining and attracting VFL-listed talent and help to facilitate competitive balance across the competition”.

But a bigger cap only means more money for players and a fairer competition if clubs can afford it.

“We’re certainly not paying that much, but those with gaming revenues would be,” Bullants president Whitlam Malkoun said.

“Clubs with money want to increase it, clubs without money say take $50,000 off it. It’s an unfair domination whichever way you look at it.”

You could not expect to pay 25 per cent of the cap and contend for a premiership.

So what exactly is the purpose of the VFL?

Is it to get 21-22-year-olds drafted? To service AFL clubs so reserves players get match simulation?

Or is it a bona fide second-tier state-league encompassing Australia? Talk and Port Adelaide’s reserves could jump from the SANFL is incorrect.

The AFL said the VFL was the “highest standard of state-league football” and there were no plans to change the model.

Malkoun said: “Let’s remember what we are – a development league”.

The Bullants developed mid-season draftee Brandon Ryan (Hawthorn) while their recent coaches Josh Fraser (Collingwood) and Ben Hart (GWS) scored AFL jobs.

Last Saturday Malkoun dashed between Cramer St and Bunnings in Epping to run a community barbecue.

“We wouldn’t raise that much money on game day against Brisbane because the crowd won’t come, and so you’ve got to find that shortfall,” he said.

“Bunnings offered us a spot and if we can raise a couple of grand out of that, well, that’s a couple of grand we didn’t have.”

Malkoun volunteers 30 hours a week.

Impecunious clubs operate on love, sweat and tears. In the absence of pokies it is the tender they count on.

Coburg and Bullants’ sole full-timers are general managers in every sense.

Lees used to be on site at 6am, handle canteen orders, count the cash and put the bins out on matchday.

“Craig on most occasions was doing the work of three people, and his efforts should never be underestimated,” ex-Coburg president Kevin Breen said.

At home games Lees would cheer for Coburg and the sun.

“If we’d budgeted for $12,000 revenue but it rained we might only make $6000,” he said.

Volunteers were his only resource.

“And if a volunteer doesn’t turn up to run our barbecue to fundraise $400 then you’re in trouble,” Lees said.

“You churn through 10 to get one good one, and the cycle keeps repeating.

“You’ve got to keep fronting up to the players. You’re trying to sell this dream around culture and standards, and three weeks later you’re apologising to the playing group because we can’t actually pay you this week.

“You lie awake at night worrying more about the joint than your own family.

“That’s being brutally honest. That’s why I had to get out, because you just don’t sleep.”

The AFL said it had a “responsibility to preserve the history of VFL clubs” and would provide guidance and support to the stand-alones.

“It is imperative that clubs remain financially viable, while being independently run,” the league said.

But the AFL’s annual six-figure grant to stand-alones was a casualty of Covid.

The Bullants missed out before Covid, too, because they were aligned with Carlton.

They would like one.

“That $250,000 injection would be very welcome,” Malkoun said.

“It gives an opportunity to source more talent, to have better facilities.”

Werribee has now squashed the Bullants 52.40 (352) to 2.15 (27) from their past two VFL matches, with Saturday’s 144-point belting showing little had changed since last year’s 29 goals to nil clean sheet.

What does Malkoun make of the VFL pokies?

“I’ve got no issue with a legal form of revenue. But is it fair? Well, no, it’s not,” he said.

“Each council has their own rules for a reason, and if we were allowed to raise money I’d have a chat to Sportsbet or Blue Bet and see if we could as well.

“(But) in line with our local council’s (Moreland) rulings, we are very proud of the fact we don’t derive any money through that.”

In 2021-22 the average amount spent on pokies per adult in Moreland was $290. It was $397 in Wyndham, which has a daily spend of $240,000 ($87.5 million annually).

Werribee pounced on 75 pokies machines in 2010.

“We could not be in the VFL competition and compete against the likes of Collingwood and Geelong unless we had that sort of income,” Penaluna said at the time.

“The city requires a club like ours to support the kids of the area. If we weren’t successful, then we would not be competing in the VFL.”

Wyndham Council has repeatedly opposed Werribee’s applications for pokies.

In 2021 it was club versus council in front of the Victorian Commission for Gambling and Liquor Regulation with Werribee’s bid for 70 pokies at Club Tarneit at stake.

Penaluna submitted nine letters from the likes of AFL Victoria, Tim Pallas MP, the Salvation Army, the WRFL, Truganina Thunder, Soujourners Church and Mercy Health Foundation.

They were all glowing of Penaluna and Werribee’s dedicated community work, but only one endorsed the pokies application.

It might’ve been women’s footy that set the jackpot off.

Part of the 52-page document on the hearing said: “The commission finds that the applicant would be significantly more likely to establish a VFL women’s team in the event the application was granted. This is seen as a significant social benefit associated with the approval of the application.”

Club Tarneit and its 70 pokies got the green light. And as AFL clubs get out of gaming, the VFL will dive further in.

North Melbourne exited in 2008 while Collingwood, Geelong. Hawthorn, Melbourne and Western Bulldogs have all divested.

AFL chairman Richard Goyder said he “hates” pokies. But last week the league absolved itself from the VFL pokies debate by saying it was a matter for clubs.

Southport’s website promises gamblers complimentary tea and coffee, exceptional service and machines in premium condition.

From 2016-18 the Sharks’ 300 machines drained $60 million from punters who were offered free tea.

Port Melbourne purchased 57 pokies entitlements for $1.6 million in 2010 and renewed them last year for $2.29 million.

The Borough banked $5.13 million revenue from gaming room and TAB income at Bay St’s Rex Hotel in 2021-2022.

In the past 18 months Williamstown has raked in $9.3 million from 66 machines at its Seagulls Nest Club at Newport Social.

Now Williamstown has a future fund managed by JB Were that was projected to have $5 million by now “as we plan to be around in another 157 years”.

But when Frankston turned to pokies it was game over.

The machines required $150 a day to break-even and in 2016 the Dolphins dumped all 27 to stop the bleeding.

They were left in $1 million debt and without a licence to play in 2017.

Coburg considered pokies in the 1980s, but it never eventuated.

Now the club’s annual general meetings have served as a call to arms for a club under loan stress and locked in survival mode.

AGM extracts include: “If we don’t get that support both financially and physically, this club could be under siege”.

“The Frankston and North Ballarat financial issues should be a real wake-up call.”

“It is important for the viability of this great club that the workload be shared and finances are drastically improved.”

Last year Coburg said: “The focus will be on getting 10 x $5000 sponsors rather than trying to get 1 x $50,000 sponsor”.

VFL followers are hoping incoming AFL chief executive Andrew Dillon will be their grassroots white knight.

There might be 410 years of history at stake.

Coburg was formed in 1891, entered the VFA in 1925 and won flags in 1926, 1927 and 1928.

Frankston was born in 1877 and produced AFL players Matthew Boyd, Michael Hibberd, Mark Baguley, Nic Newman and Sam Lloyd this century.

The Bullants, home of Collingwood captain Ray Shaw and Hawthorn premiership coach Alan Joyce, have also been around forever.

“142 years to be precise,” Malkoun said.

“We’re one of the oldest institutions in Victoria, believe it or not.

“Coburg share a similar history to us at Preston.

“Two proud clubs, two prominent clubs, two big brands and it would be a shame to see either entity fold away into a different comp of sorts.

“That’s a fair way off, but these days, good lord, you can never say never to anything, really.

“You’ve got to be open and susceptible to change and be ready to act in a heartbeat to protect what you can protect.”

 

[10571z]

Said it before and will say it again, I think it's only a matter of time before Coburg and Preston join NFNL. This is the article in todays Herald Sun, there is NO WAY they can continue to compete against AFL Reserves and Pokie cashed up sides. They both have huge history and may hate coming down a league but to be honest, I reckon Heidelberg would compete against their current lists. I used to love going to Craemer St in the 70s and 80s but those days are so long gone its not funny. Time to point their clubs in the direction of their future.

VFL: Coburg, Northern Bullants and Frankston Dolphins barely standing against gambling revenue

The AFL is turning its back on gambling but pokies and profits have never had a bigger impact on the VFL. The league’s true competition is away from the field and in the clubhouses.

Hearts sank as a screenshot of the VFL app showing live scores pinged around the football community last Saturday.

At quarter-time Frankston trailed Gold Coast 0.1 (1) to 10.1 (61) and Northern Bullants trailed Brisbane Lions 0.0 (0) to 8.6 (54), while at halftime Coburg trailed Carlton 1.1 (7) to 9.10 (64).

After four quarters it was obvious that three proud clubs steeped in Victorian Football Association history were on their knees.

Coburg, Northern Bullants and Frankston Dolphins are 3-34 against the other 18 VFL teams this season.

They’re the stand-alone clubs who are barely standing.

But the main game is being played off the ground.

Problem gamblers are powering the other four stand-alone clubs – Werribee, Williamstown, Port Melbourne and Southport Sharks – to prosperity in a VFL world with minimal equalisation.

Next year they will be enriched by almost 600 pokies machines.

They are the stand-alone clubs on stilts.

Southport – which made last year’s grand final – is the Las Vegas of Australian sport and Werribee – on an 11-game winning streak – is becoming the Atlantic City.

Port Melbourne’s No.1 ticket holder is billionaire pokies king Bruce Mathieson and last year the club posted an eye-watering profit of $2,246,131.

Frankston’s profit last year was $1033 – the equivalent of one match payment to a star player.

The Dolphins’ main source of non-traditional income has been the Frankston Community Market.

But stalls on a Sunday morning cannot compete with the rivers of gold flowing 9am-5am everyday from Werribee’s first pokies den.

The Tiger Clubhouse’s 85 poker machines in Hoppers Crossing have generated close to $18 million in the past 18 months.

Werribee president Martin Carter described his club’s facilities as “superior to all clubs outside of the AFL”.

The Tigers will slot in another 70 poker machines when Club Tarneit opens its doors in Truganina next year.

They will gobble around $9 million in the first 12 months, according to an expenditure report from ShineWing Australia director Tim Stillwell.

Carter claimed Club Tarneit would be a “much-needed additional revenue stream”.

Goodness help Coburg, Frankston and the Bullants if that is the case.

In 2020 the pandemic pulled the plug on pokies — leaving Werribee and Williamstown seven figures in the red.

But their bottom lines improved by a combined $3.8 million in 2021 as Covid calmed (Werribee’s profit was $429,258, Williamstown’s $515,650).

Last year Werribee celebrated its 17th profit in 20 seasons — and it set a club record. But the figure was absent from the club’s 23-page annual report.

Perhaps embarrassed by its riches, the club again chose not reveal it when asked this week.

Dolphins treasurer James van Beek hit out at the stand-alone “imbalance”.

“Southport, Port Melbourne, Werribee and Williamstown all have gaming venues driving additional non-football revenues and providing a financial advantage to attract ex-AFL players and coaches and funding more administrative resources,” van Beek told Frankston’s annual general meeting.

“It is evident there is a direct correlation between winning and financial performance.

“Frankston, Coburg and Northern Bullants are disadvantaged, although being socially responsible, making it difficult to strive for and become financially sustainable and, by extension, competitive on-field.”

Coburg and Northern can only afford one full-time employee … and Coburg chief executive Sebastian Spagnuolo left last month. He has not been replaced.

Comparatively, the pokie powerhouses are playing with house money.

Werribee coach Michael Barlow credited three high-performance staff for their player availability being the envy of the league.

Barlow is full-time and supported by a string of part-timers. This masthead has been told Werribee has eight full-timers, but club boss Mark Penaluna insisted it was five.

Coburg’s 2020-24 strategic plan aimed to “be in a position of offering full-time terms to our senior coach”.

Entering 2023 that had not happened and so Andrew Sturgess quit to coach Calder Cannons, where Spagnuolo lobbed last week.

“The opportunity to go full-time and support my family was a no-brainer,” Sturgess said.

For years Coburg would pay just 25 per cent of the salary cap ($100,000 out of $400,000).

“You’d lay awake at night knowing we need to have $14,000 in the account for payroll to be able to pay the players for the last month, and we’ve only got $8000,” ex-Coburg general manager Craig Lees said.

“How the hell are we going to pay the players? You lose sleep. This is the stand-alone non-pokies environment.”

This year’s salary cap is $250,000 (up from $220,000) for stand-alone clubs and $125,000 for AFL and aligned clubs (up from $110,000).

One VFL coach said players were grossly underpaid. He questioned how a player close to making an AFL list could be on $4000-5000.

“We’ve got plenty of players on $250 a game that could be on $1000-1200 at local level, and then you’re asking them to play on a Thursday interstate and to take Wednesday, Thursday and potentially Friday off work which might cost them $500-600,” he said.

“You can’t keep paying the players that are a bee’s dick off being AFL level peanuts because it doesn’t help the brand moving forward.”

The threat of cashed-up local clubs poaching VFL talent is listed as a threat in Coburg and Williamstown’s strategic plans.

In 2015 Tasmanian Robbie Fox was torn between playing EDFL for Aberfeldie ($400 per game) or VFL for Coburg ($150 per game, $50 development league).

Fast cash understandably tempted the university student – but he signed at Coburg and then got drafted by Sydney.

Phew.

But how many young guns in Fox’s shoes have chosen dollars over AFL dreams?

The AFL said it adjusted the salary cap “to assist clubs in retaining and attracting VFL-listed talent and help to facilitate competitive balance across the competition”.

But a bigger cap only means more money for players and a fairer competition if clubs can afford it.

“We’re certainly not paying that much, but those with gaming revenues would be,” Bullants president Whitlam Malkoun said.

“Clubs with money want to increase it, clubs without money say take $50,000 off it. It’s an unfair domination whichever way you look at it.”

You could not expect to pay 25 per cent of the cap and contend for a premiership.

So what exactly is the purpose of the VFL?

Is it to get 21-22-year-olds drafted? To service AFL clubs so reserves players get match simulation?

Or is it a bona fide second-tier state-league encompassing Australia? Talk and Port Adelaide’s reserves could jump from the SANFL is incorrect.

The AFL said the VFL was the “highest standard of state-league football” and there were no plans to change the model.

Malkoun said: “Let’s remember what we are – a development league”.

The Bullants developed mid-season draftee Brandon Ryan (Hawthorn) while their recent coaches Josh Fraser (Collingwood) and Ben Hart (GWS) scored AFL jobs.

Last Saturday Malkoun dashed between Cramer St and Bunnings in Epping to run a community barbecue.

“We wouldn’t raise that much money on game day against Brisbane because the crowd won’t come, and so you’ve got to find that shortfall,” he said.

“Bunnings offered us a spot and if we can raise a couple of grand out of that, well, that’s a couple of grand we didn’t have.”

Malkoun volunteers 30 hours a week.

Impecunious clubs operate on love, sweat and tears. In the absence of pokies it is the tender they count on.

Coburg and Bullants’ sole full-timers are general managers in every sense.

Lees used to be on site at 6am, handle canteen orders, count the cash and put the bins out on matchday.

“Craig on most occasions was doing the work of three people, and his efforts should never be underestimated,” ex-Coburg president Kevin Breen said.

At home games Lees would cheer for Coburg and the sun.

“If we’d budgeted for $12,000 revenue but it rained we might only make $6000,” he said.

Volunteers were his only resource.

“And if a volunteer doesn’t turn up to run our barbecue to fundraise $400 then you’re in trouble,” Lees said.

“You churn through 10 to get one good one, and the cycle keeps repeating.

“You’ve got to keep fronting up to the players. You’re trying to sell this dream around culture and standards, and three weeks later you’re apologising to the playing group because we can’t actually pay you this week.

“You lie awake at night worrying more about the joint than your own family.

“That’s being brutally honest. That’s why I had to get out, because you just don’t sleep.”

The AFL said it had a “responsibility to preserve the history of VFL clubs” and would provide guidance and support to the stand-alones.

“It is imperative that clubs remain financially viable, while being independently run,” the league said.

But the AFL’s annual six-figure grant to stand-alones was a casualty of Covid.

The Bullants missed out before Covid, too, because they were aligned with Carlton.

They would like one.

“That $250,000 injection would be very welcome,” Malkoun said.

“It gives an opportunity to source more talent, to have better facilities.”

Werribee has now squashed the Bullants 52.40 (352) to 2.15 (27) from their past two VFL matches, with Saturday’s 144-point belting showing little had changed since last year’s 29 goals to nil clean sheet.

What does Malkoun make of the VFL pokies?

“I’ve got no issue with a legal form of revenue. But is it fair? Well, no, it’s not,” he said.

“Each council has their own rules for a reason, and if we were allowed to raise money I’d have a chat to Sportsbet or Blue Bet and see if we could as well.

“(But) in line with our local council’s (Moreland) rulings, we are very proud of the fact we don’t derive any money through that.”

In 2021-22 the average amount spent on pokies per adult in Moreland was $290. It was $397 in Wyndham, which has a daily spend of $240,000 ($87.5 million annually).

Werribee pounced on 75 pokies machines in 2010.

“We could not be in the VFL competition and compete against the likes of Collingwood and Geelong unless we had that sort of income,” Penaluna said at the time.

“The city requires a club like ours to support the kids of the area. If we weren’t successful, then we would not be competing in the VFL.”

Wyndham Council has repeatedly opposed Werribee’s applications for pokies.

In 2021 it was club versus council in front of the Victorian Commission for Gambling and Liquor Regulation with Werribee’s bid for 70 pokies at Club Tarneit at stake.

Penaluna submitted nine letters from the likes of AFL Victoria, Tim Pallas MP, the Salvation Army, the WRFL, Truganina Thunder, Soujourners Church and Mercy Health Foundation.

They were all glowing of Penaluna and Werribee’s dedicated community work, but only one endorsed the pokies application.

It might’ve been women’s footy that set the jackpot off.

Part of the 52-page document on the hearing said: “The commission finds that the applicant would be significantly more likely to establish a VFL women’s team in the event the application was granted. This is seen as a significant social benefit associated with the approval of the application.”

Club Tarneit and its 70 pokies got the green light. And as AFL clubs get out of gaming, the VFL will dive further in.

North Melbourne exited in 2008 while Collingwood, Geelong. Hawthorn, Melbourne and Western Bulldogs have all divested.

AFL chairman Richard Goyder said he “hates” pokies. But last week the league absolved itself from the VFL pokies debate by saying it was a matter for clubs.

Southport’s website promises gamblers complimentary tea and coffee, exceptional service and machines in premium condition.

From 2016-18 the Sharks’ 300 machines drained $60 million from punters who were offered free tea.

Port Melbourne purchased 57 pokies entitlements for $1.6 million in 2010 and renewed them last year for $2.29 million.

The Borough banked $5.13 million revenue from gaming room and TAB income at Bay St’s Rex Hotel in 2021-2022.

In the past 18 months Williamstown has raked in $9.3 million from 66 machines at its Seagulls Nest Club at Newport Social.

Now Williamstown has a future fund managed by JB Were that was projected to have $5 million by now “as we plan to be around in another 157 years”.

But when Frankston turned to pokies it was game over.

The machines required $150 a day to break-even and in 2016 the Dolphins dumped all 27 to stop the bleeding.

They were left in $1 million debt and without a licence to play in 2017.

Coburg considered pokies in the 1980s, but it never eventuated.

Now the club’s annual general meetings have served as a call to arms for a club under loan stress and locked in survival mode.

AGM extracts include: “If we don’t get that support both financially and physically, this club could be under siege”.

“The Frankston and North Ballarat financial issues should be a real wake-up call.”

“It is important for the viability of this great club that the workload be shared and finances are drastically improved.”

Last year Coburg said: “The focus will be on getting 10 x $5000 sponsors rather than trying to get 1 x $50,000 sponsor”.

VFL followers are hoping incoming AFL chief executive Andrew Dillon will be their grassroots white knight.

There might be 410 years of history at stake.

Coburg was formed in 1891, entered the VFA in 1925 and won flags in 1926, 1927 and 1928.

Frankston was born in 1877 and produced AFL players Matthew Boyd, Michael Hibberd, Mark Baguley, Nic Newman and Sam Lloyd this century.

The Bullants, home of Collingwood captain Ray Shaw and Hawthorn premiership coach Alan Joyce, have also been around forever.

“142 years to be precise,” Malkoun said.

“We’re one of the oldest institutions in Victoria, believe it or not.

“Coburg share a similar history to us at Preston.

“Two proud clubs, two prominent clubs, two big brands and it would be a shame to see either entity fold away into a different comp of sorts.

“That’s a fair way off, but these days, good lord, you can never say never to anything, really.

“You’ve got to be open and susceptible to change and be ready to act in a heartbeat to protect what you can protect.”

Yep it’s impossible to compete in the VFL but also it wouldn’t be an easy ride in the NFNL basically having to create an entire new list (senior and ressies) as I doubt any VFL players would remain there. Not to mention no real demand for another couple of teams in those areas

 

[nosecondprize]

Said it before and will say it again, I think it's only a matter of time before Coburg and Preston join NFNL. This is the article in todays Herald Sun, there is NO WAY they can continue to compete against AFL Reserves and Pokie cashed up sides. They both have huge history and may hate coming down a league but to be honest, I reckon Heidelberg would compete against their current lists. I used to love going to Craemer St in the 70s and 80s but those days are so long gone its not funny. Time to point their clubs in the direction of their future.

VFL: Coburg, Northern Bullants and Frankston Dolphins barely standing against gambling revenue

The AFL is turning its back on gambling but pokies and profits have never had a bigger impact on the VFL. The league’s true competition is away from the field and in the clubhouses.

Hearts sank as a screenshot of the VFL app showing live scores pinged around the football community last Saturday.

At quarter-time Frankston trailed Gold Coast 0.1 (1) to 10.1 (61) and Northern Bullants trailed Brisbane Lions 0.0 (0) to 8.6 (54), while at halftime Coburg trailed Carlton 1.1 (7) to 9.10 (64).

After four quarters it was obvious that three proud clubs steeped in Victorian Football Association history were on their knees.

Coburg, Northern Bullants and Frankston Dolphins are 3-34 against the other 18 VFL teams this season.

They’re the stand-alone clubs who are barely standing.

But the main game is being played off the ground.

Problem gamblers are powering the other four stand-alone clubs – Werribee, Williamstown, Port Melbourne and Southport Sharks – to prosperity in a VFL world with minimal equalisation.

Next year they will be enriched by almost 600 pokies machines.

They are the stand-alone clubs on stilts.

Southport – which made last year’s grand final – is the Las Vegas of Australian sport and Werribee – on an 11-game winning streak – is becoming the Atlantic City.

Port Melbourne’s No.1 ticket holder is billionaire pokies king Bruce Mathieson and last year the club posted an eye-watering profit of $2,246,131.

Frankston’s profit last year was $1033 – the equivalent of one match payment to a star player.

The Dolphins’ main source of non-traditional income has been the Frankston Community Market.

But stalls on a Sunday morning cannot compete with the rivers of gold flowing 9am-5am everyday from Werribee’s first pokies den.

The Tiger Clubhouse’s 85 poker machines in Hoppers Crossing have generated close to $18 million in the past 18 months.

Werribee president Martin Carter described his club’s facilities as “superior to all clubs outside of the AFL”.

The Tigers will slot in another 70 poker machines when Club Tarneit opens its doors in Truganina next year.

They will gobble around $9 million in the first 12 months, according to an expenditure report from ShineWing Australia director Tim Stillwell.

Carter claimed Club Tarneit would be a “much-needed additional revenue stream”.

Goodness help Coburg, Frankston and the Bullants if that is the case.

In 2020 the pandemic pulled the plug on pokies — leaving Werribee and Williamstown seven figures in the red.

But their bottom lines improved by a combined $3.8 million in 2021 as Covid calmed (Werribee’s profit was $429,258, Williamstown’s $515,650).

Last year Werribee celebrated its 17th profit in 20 seasons — and it set a club record. But the figure was absent from the club’s 23-page annual report.

Perhaps embarrassed by its riches, the club again chose not reveal it when asked this week.

Dolphins treasurer James van Beek hit out at the stand-alone “imbalance”.

“Southport, Port Melbourne, Werribee and Williamstown all have gaming venues driving additional non-football revenues and providing a financial advantage to attract ex-AFL players and coaches and funding more administrative resources,” van Beek told Frankston’s annual general meeting.

“It is evident there is a direct correlation between winning and financial performance.

“Frankston, Coburg and Northern Bullants are disadvantaged, although being socially responsible, making it difficult to strive for and become financially sustainable and, by extension, competitive on-field.”

Coburg and Northern can only afford one full-time employee … and Coburg chief executive Sebastian Spagnuolo left last month. He has not been replaced.

Comparatively, the pokie powerhouses are playing with house money.

Werribee coach Michael Barlow credited three high-performance staff for their player availability being the envy of the league.

Barlow is full-time and supported by a string of part-timers. This masthead has been told Werribee has eight full-timers, but club boss Mark Penaluna insisted it was five.

Coburg’s 2020-24 strategic plan aimed to “be in a position of offering full-time terms to our senior coach”.

Entering 2023 that had not happened and so Andrew Sturgess quit to coach Calder Cannons, where Spagnuolo lobbed last week.

“The opportunity to go full-time and support my family was a no-brainer,” Sturgess said.

For years Coburg would pay just 25 per cent of the salary cap ($100,000 out of $400,000).

“You’d lay awake at night knowing we need to have $14,000 in the account for payroll to be able to pay the players for the last month, and we’ve only got $8000,” ex-Coburg general manager Craig Lees said.

“How the hell are we going to pay the players? You lose sleep. This is the stand-alone non-pokies environment.”

This year’s salary cap is $250,000 (up from $220,000) for stand-alone clubs and $125,000 for AFL and aligned clubs (up from $110,000).

One VFL coach said players were grossly underpaid. He questioned how a player close to making an AFL list could be on $4000-5000.

“We’ve got plenty of players on $250 a game that could be on $1000-1200 at local level, and then you’re asking them to play on a Thursday interstate and to take Wednesday, Thursday and potentially Friday off work which might cost them $500-600,” he said.

“You can’t keep paying the players that are a bee’s dick off being AFL level peanuts because it doesn’t help the brand moving forward.”

The threat of cashed-up local clubs poaching VFL talent is listed as a threat in Coburg and Williamstown’s strategic plans.

In 2015 Tasmanian Robbie Fox was torn between playing EDFL for Aberfeldie ($400 per game) or VFL for Coburg ($150 per game, $50 development league).

Fast cash understandably tempted the university student – but he signed at Coburg and then got drafted by Sydney.

Phew.

But how many young guns in Fox’s shoes have chosen dollars over AFL dreams?

The AFL said it adjusted the salary cap “to assist clubs in retaining and attracting VFL-listed talent and help to facilitate competitive balance across the competition”.

But a bigger cap only means more money for players and a fairer competition if clubs can afford it.

“We’re certainly not paying that much, but those with gaming revenues would be,” Bullants president Whitlam Malkoun said.

“Clubs with money want to increase it, clubs without money say take $50,000 off it. It’s an unfair domination whichever way you look at it.”

You could not expect to pay 25 per cent of the cap and contend for a premiership.

So what exactly is the purpose of the VFL?

Is it to get 21-22-year-olds drafted? To service AFL clubs so reserves players get match simulation?

Or is it a bona fide second-tier state-league encompassing Australia? Talk and Port Adelaide’s reserves could jump from the SANFL is incorrect.

The AFL said the VFL was the “highest standard of state-league football” and there were no plans to change the model.

Malkoun said: “Let’s remember what we are – a development league”.

The Bullants developed mid-season draftee Brandon Ryan (Hawthorn) while their recent coaches Josh Fraser (Collingwood) and Ben Hart (GWS) scored AFL jobs.

Last Saturday Malkoun dashed between Cramer St and Bunnings in Epping to run a community barbecue.

“We wouldn’t raise that much money on game day against Brisbane because the crowd won’t come, and so you’ve got to find that shortfall,” he said.

“Bunnings offered us a spot and if we can raise a couple of grand out of that, well, that’s a couple of grand we didn’t have.”

Malkoun volunteers 30 hours a week.

Impecunious clubs operate on love, sweat and tears. In the absence of pokies it is the tender they count on.

Coburg and Bullants’ sole full-timers are general managers in every sense.

Lees used to be on site at 6am, handle canteen orders, count the cash and put the bins out on matchday.

“Craig on most occasions was doing the work of three people, and his efforts should never be underestimated,” ex-Coburg president Kevin Breen said.

At home games Lees would cheer for Coburg and the sun.

“If we’d budgeted for $12,000 revenue but it rained we might only make $6000,” he said.

Volunteers were his only resource.

“And if a volunteer doesn’t turn up to run our barbecue to fundraise $400 then you’re in trouble,” Lees said.

“You churn through 10 to get one good one, and the cycle keeps repeating.

“You’ve got to keep fronting up to the players. You’re trying to sell this dream around culture and standards, and three weeks later you’re apologising to the playing group because we can’t actually pay you this week.

“You lie awake at night worrying more about the joint than your own family.

“That’s being brutally honest. That’s why I had to get out, because you just don’t sleep.”

The AFL said it had a “responsibility to preserve the history of VFL clubs” and would provide guidance and support to the stand-alones.

“It is imperative that clubs remain financially viable, while being independently run,” the league said.

But the AFL’s annual six-figure grant to stand-alones was a casualty of Covid.

The Bullants missed out before Covid, too, because they were aligned with Carlton.

They would like one.

“That $250,000 injection would be very welcome,” Malkoun said.

“It gives an opportunity to source more talent, to have better facilities.”

Werribee has now squashed the Bullants 52.40 (352) to 2.15 (27) from their past two VFL matches, with Saturday’s 144-point belting showing little had changed since last year’s 29 goals to nil clean sheet.

What does Malkoun make of the VFL pokies?

“I’ve got no issue with a legal form of revenue. But is it fair? Well, no, it’s not,” he said.

“Each council has their own rules for a reason, and if we were allowed to raise money I’d have a chat to Sportsbet or Blue Bet and see if we could as well.

“(But) in line with our local council’s (Moreland) rulings, we are very proud of the fact we don’t derive any money through that.”

In 2021-22 the average amount spent on pokies per adult in Moreland was $290. It was $397 in Wyndham, which has a daily spend of $240,000 ($87.5 million annually).

Werribee pounced on 75 pokies machines in 2010.

“We could not be in the VFL competition and compete against the likes of Collingwood and Geelong unless we had that sort of income,” Penaluna said at the time.

“The city requires a club like ours to support the kids of the area. If we weren’t successful, then we would not be competing in the VFL.”

Wyndham Council has repeatedly opposed Werribee’s applications for pokies.

In 2021 it was club versus council in front of the Victorian Commission for Gambling and Liquor Regulation with Werribee’s bid for 70 pokies at Club Tarneit at stake.

Penaluna submitted nine letters from the likes of AFL Victoria, Tim Pallas MP, the Salvation Army, the WRFL, Truganina Thunder, Soujourners Church and Mercy Health Foundation.

They were all glowing of Penaluna and Werribee’s dedicated community work, but only one endorsed the pokies application.

It might’ve been women’s footy that set the jackpot off.

Part of the 52-page document on the hearing said: “The commission finds that the applicant would be significantly more likely to establish a VFL women’s team in the event the application was granted. This is seen as a significant social benefit associated with the approval of the application.”

Club Tarneit and its 70 pokies got the green light. And as AFL clubs get out of gaming, the VFL will dive further in.

North Melbourne exited in 2008 while Collingwood, Geelong. Hawthorn, Melbourne and Western Bulldogs have all divested.

AFL chairman Richard Goyder said he “hates” pokies. But last week the league absolved itself from the VFL pokies debate by saying it was a matter for clubs.

Southport’s website promises gamblers complimentary tea and coffee, exceptional service and machines in premium condition.

From 2016-18 the Sharks’ 300 machines drained $60 million from punters who were offered free tea.

Port Melbourne purchased 57 pokies entitlements for $1.6 million in 2010 and renewed them last year for $2.29 million.

The Borough banked $5.13 million revenue from gaming room and TAB income at Bay St’s Rex Hotel in 2021-2022.

In the past 18 months Williamstown has raked in $9.3 million from 66 machines at its Seagulls Nest Club at Newport Social.

Now Williamstown has a future fund managed by JB Were that was projected to have $5 million by now “as we plan to be around in another 157 years”.

But when Frankston turned to pokies it was game over.

The machines required $150 a day to break-even and in 2016 the Dolphins dumped all 27 to stop the bleeding.

They were left in $1 million debt and without a licence to play in 2017.

Coburg considered pokies in the 1980s, but it never eventuated.

Now the club’s annual general meetings have served as a call to arms for a club under loan stress and locked in survival mode.

AGM extracts include: “If we don’t get that support both financially and physically, this club could be under siege”.

“The Frankston and North Ballarat financial issues should be a real wake-up call.”

“It is important for the viability of this great club that the workload be shared and finances are drastically improved.”

Last year Coburg said: “The focus will be on getting 10 x $5000 sponsors rather than trying to get 1 x $50,000 sponsor”.

VFL followers are hoping incoming AFL chief executive Andrew Dillon will be their grassroots white knight.

There might be 410 years of history at stake.

Coburg was formed in 1891, entered the VFA in 1925 and won flags in 1926, 1927 and 1928.

Frankston was born in 1877 and produced AFL players Matthew Boyd, Michael Hibberd, Mark Baguley, Nic Newman and Sam Lloyd this century.

The Bullants, home of Collingwood captain Ray Shaw and Hawthorn premiership coach Alan Joyce, have also been around forever.

“142 years to be precise,” Malkoun said.

“We’re one of the oldest institutions in Victoria, believe it or not.

“Coburg share a similar history to us at Preston.

“Two proud clubs, two prominent clubs, two big brands and it would be a shame to see either entity fold away into a different comp of sorts.

“That’s a fair way off, but these days, good lord, you can never say never to anything, really.

“You’ve got to be open and susceptible to change and be ready to act in a heartbeat to protect what you can protect.”

Heidelberg would not compete with either of those teams. They would win the Division in an absolute canter. But you wouldn't be getting those teams if they came to the NFNL. Which in my opinion is highly highly doubtful

 

[red_ranga]

Heidelberg would not compete with either of those teams. They would win the Division in an absolute canter. But you wouldn't be getting those teams if they came to the NFNL. Which in my opinion is highly highly doubtful

100% correct no team in the state would come close to them, Hopefully they get the 250k off the AFL for next year, If the AFL wants them as a reserves comp to the AFL they should be kicking in some coin

 

[Big Unit 30]

Heidelberg would not compete with either of those teams. They would win the Division in an absolute canter. But you wouldn't be getting those teams if they came to the NFNL. Which in my opinion is highly highly doubtful

Don’t Heidelberg currently have 5/6 players on their list playing at preston ?
I know one current Collingwood VFL player who told me he’s on less money than he’s on playing NFL and the standard ain’t much better but he’s young and the lure of being added on a list is too big not to have a crack at.

 

[red_ranga]

Don’t Heidelberg currently have 5/6 players on their list playing at preston ?
I know one current Collingwood VFL player who told me he’s on less money than he’s on playing NFL and the standard ain’t much better but he’s young and the lure of being added on a list is too big not to have a crack at.

Or are they Preston players who chose HFC as their feeder? Were they HFC juniors? Honest question I have no idea