Analysis Back to The Future, Re-Developing Victoria Park.

[TheSierBear]

I think 20-30 years ago, clubs made the right short-term decision to ditch their homes, Windy Hill, Vic Park, Princess Park, Whitten Oval etc, but no-one could have predicted that Ethihad, the second stadium could have turned out as sterile as it did, and long term, everyone wants to go back to the old days of a suburban home.

This thread is probably as realistic as a Sci Fi film, or as realistic as a team being based in Los Angelas, but what if clubs went back to re-developing their old homes, we now know that this is seriously being discussed in the case of Richmond (punt Road) and Carlton (Princess Park).

Also, there's talk of a boutique stadium near Arden Street, which would be interesting.

If say, Collingwood decided to re-develop Victoria Park, I realize the council owns a great part of the land there, perhaps owns the stadium itself, and that, there would be protests to the many locals in the area complaining about noise etc. But....

But what if we got government funding to re-develop Vic Park, or that, Eddie becomes a fat washed up, retired billionaire by 65 and finally retires, and he bankrolls half of the $1.5B dollar project.

Yep, as realistic as a sci fi film but one can only dream.

What should Vic Park hold? I reckon, considering we get crowds of 50,000 plus to interstate games at the MCG, I reckon 50,000 minimum.

Discuss...

 

[jmac70]

The council own the whole thing I believe. That land would be worth an enormous amount of money.

 

[TheSierBear]

The council own the whole thing I believe. That land would be worth an enormous amount of money.

I believe it's heritage listed.

 

[jmac70]

I believe it's heritage listed.

In that case how could it be turned into a 50k stadium?

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I believe it's heritage listed.

I never quite get the whole heritage listing thing.
Something dilapidated or not very old can be heritage listed. Very hitch pitch.
Eg VFL park some part of it is listed?,why.
Victoria Park at say 65,000 stadium could serve football well.
Really a third stadium in Melbourne with 50,000 to 65,000 somewhere would be ideal.
What about the show grounds?
Parking and transport are terrific.

 

[TheSierBear]

In that case how could it be turned into a 50k stadium?

In the first place, I said the idea was unrealistic. It's just an idea/concept on the back of other clubs putting forth ideas about re-developing their traditional stomping grounds.

Not too sure about the rules of heritage listing, but it's heritage listed because of the Collingwood Football Club, if we decide to re-develop it, creating jobs and possibly increase the value of residential and business listings in the area, it may be considered.

I already said the idea was far-fetched, not sure why you would 'shout down something you don't like, anything you don't like',.

 

[jmac70]

In the first place, I said the idea was unrealistic. It's just an idea/concept on the back of other clubs putting forth ideas about re-developing their traditional stomping grounds.

Not too sure about the rules of heritage listing, but it's heritage listed because of the Collingwood Football Club, if we decide to re-develop it, creating jobs and possibly increase the value of residential and business listings in the area, it may be considered.

I already said the idea was far-fetched, not sure why you would 'shout down something you don't like, anything you don't like',.

You asked people to discuss it. I thought that's what I was doing...

The suburb of Collingwood has changed enormously since the glory days of Victoria Park. I doubt the hipsters living there now would appreciate a 50k seater stadium on their doorstep.

 

[TheSierBear]

I never quite get the whole heritage listing thing.
Something dilapidated or not very old can be heritage listed. Very hitch pitch.
Eg VFL park some part of it is listed?,why.
Victoria Park at say 65,000 stadium could serve football well.
Really a third stadium in Melbourne with 50,000 to 65,000 somewhere would be ideal.
What about the show grounds?
Parking and transport are terrific.

The showgrounds is good in itself but it's a pain in the arse to get to for most people. You need to get off at Flemmington Station and god knows what trams run there. Parking maybe great but you have to drive over Macarthur Road from the East, the traffic jams through those streets, plus Alexander Parade, cough, no thanks, but I like your thinking; outside the square.

If there was a footy ground there, Id be cycling in.

Edit, Princess Park would be a total nightmare, mayhem to drive to with Sydney Road, Royal Parade two of the worst streets to drive in in Melbourne, but I'd love it, I'd cycle in, smash some beers at the Retreat with some mates before the game, or the myriad of bars on Sydney Road would be amazing.

 

[TheSierBear]

You asked people to discuss it. I thought that's what I was doing...

The suburb of Collingwood has changed enormously since the glory days of Victoria Park. I doubt the hipsters living there now would appreciate a 50k seater stadium on their doorstep.

True, Collingwood is a gay, hipster paradise, but footy has changed to. Some hipsters would embrace the idea of suburban stomping grounds being revisited.

I did say it would have it's challenges, does the idea have any merit in your opinion?

 

[jmac70]

True, Collingwood is a gay, hipster paradise, but footy has changed to. Some hipsters would embrace the idea of suburban stomping grounds being revisited.

I did say it would have it's challenges, does the idea have any merit in your opinion?

No.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

The showgrounds is good in itself but it's a pain in the arse to get to for most people. You need to get off at Flemmington Station and god knows what trams run there. Parking maybe great but you have to drive over Macarthur Road from the East, the traffic jams through those streets, plus Alexander Parade, cough, no thanks, but I like your thinking; outside the square.

If there was a footy ground there, Id be cycling in.

Edit, Princess Park would be a total nightmare, mayhem to drive to with Sydney Road, Royal Parade two of the worst streets to drive in in Melbourne, but I'd love it, I'd cycle in, smash some beers at the Retreat with some mates before the game, or the myriad of bars on Sydney Road would be amazing.

Some good points.
There is a Showgrounds station too, so that's ok.
Like most things in Melbourne roads would get clogged etc,
But that's true pretty much anywhere.

There's junction oval though train lacking, lots of trams ofcourse.

There is Elsternwick Park?

Probably still best upgrade something existing.

 

[Apex36]

Wouldn't work, purely because it's a high density residential area, with inadequate parking and an inadequate location on the railway (if you think Richmond is a cluster**** after a game, imagine trying to get a train back to Richmond on the Abbotsford line along with 20k other people on a single line.)

It's difficult enough with VFL games, let alone with AFL size crowds. (Talking Vic Park here obviously)

 

[sirlothie]

Victoria Park precinct is too small to put a big stadium let alone all the car parking needed unfortunately and I guess we are the last Melbourne club to need a boutique stadium because our crowds are so big we need the MCG so often.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I think we own the old Social Club the rest is Council owned
In any event it is becoming more of a home owner community and the case for a large football ground is diminishing as more people move into the area for living space

 

[TheSierBear]

No.

LOL you're an obnoxious poster.

 

[Apex36]

Honestly if we were to get a boutique stadium, it would end up being at the Westpac centre (or as Dave so eloquently puts it, Eddieland). There's room for grandstands, close proximity to Richmond station, reasonable parking can be accessed close by, especially if the club made an arrangement with the tennis centre.

 

[Apex36]

LOL you're an obnoxious poster.

Why, because he gave an honest answer to your question? Your response is actually more obnoxious than his answer.

 

[jmac70]

Honestly if we were to get a boutique stadium, it would end up being at the Westpac centre (or as Dave so eloquently puts it, Eddieland). There's room for grandstands, close proximity to Richmond station, reasonable parking can be accessed close by, especially if the club made an arrangement with the tennis centre.

Exactly. A boutique stadium in the middle of a high density inner city suburb just won't work.

 

[TheSierBear]

Wouldn't work, purely because it's a high density residential area, with inadequate parking and an inadequate location on the railway (if you think Richmond is a cluster**** after a game, imagine trying to get a train back to Richmond on the Abbotsford line along with 20k other people on a single line.)

It's difficult enough with VFL games, let alone with AFL size crowds. (Talking Vic Park here obviously)

Actually, I agree with a lot of this, except the train lines wouldn't be flogged as much as you say. Vic Park already had 30,000 crowds and that worked from my childhood memory, of being packed in a train, much like 60,000 plus crowdsat the MCG on the Epping line.

Collingwood's heartland is the North, North East, Epping and Hurstbridge lines. So it's easy access to the heartland areas.
I tend to cycle in to the few VFL games I attend, but Id be surprized if VFL games ha more than a modicum affect on transport considering, they don't get more than 5,000 at most to games. I've also put my bike on the train and don't have at all bad memories doing it.
Re the 'cluster ****', Punt Road will be upgraded, along with roads all over Melbourne over the next 18 months. Vic Park is near the Eastern Freeway and not to far from the Monash, so not the worst venue to drive to, much better than Princess Park, or Windy Hill, can't really comment on the others. I agree parking would be a nightmare, they'd need some sort of state of the art underground parking, this would be the final straw why it wouldn't go ahead IMO.

 

[CFC2010]

I think Eddie's plan is well progressed.

Two years in the planning and Eddie knows all the right people to get such a massive project done.

Eddie is still held on a pedestal by the South Melbourne SC people for organizing the lease of a life time at
Lake Side Oval. Yes he had ulterior motives but HE got it done in the end.

Back on topic Vic Park provided some magnificent memories but that is all it will be.

 

[1892]

The problem with redeveloping Victoria Park is there's not a lot of space around the ground and it would simply cost too much to purchase the houses required to expand it.

It's a pity the club had to sell the old Victoria Park primary school site, they almost had half the land between Vic Park and the Eastern Fwy. If all that land was had been acquired then Lulie St could have been closed and the rail sidings possibly used. Car parking would still have been an issue, but it wouldn't be any worse than Etihad.



http://digital.slv.vic.gov.au/view/..._RULE_ID=4&divType=&usePid1=true&usePid2=true

Vic Park primary school site outlined in red.

 

[TheSierBear]

The problem with redeveloping Victoria Park is there's not a lot of space around the ground and it would simply cost too much to purchase the houses required to expand it.

It's a pity the club had to sell the old Victoria Park primary school site, they almost had half the land between Vic Park and the Eastern Fwy. If all that land was had been acquired then Lulie St could have been closed and the rail sidings possibly used. Car parking would still have been an issue, but it wouldn't be any worse than Etihad.



http://digital.slv.vic.gov.au/view/..._RULE_ID=4&divType=&usePid1=true&usePid2=true

Vic Park primary school site outlined in red.

If we had a Chinese style dictatorship we could knock down those houses and make space for parking so the surrounds would be green and lush, would look like the MCG. I'm sure there would be massive protests from the hipsters, there's be a fair few uni type lefties who may chain themselves to construction work in such circumstance, but unfortunately, they'd be left crushed Tiananmen Square' style, which I don't think will happen in Australia for another 100 years at least.

That picture pretty sums up what I first said, as realistic as a sci-fi film. I thought the images were a great contribution to the thread though.

 

[TheSierBear]

1892 what would it cost to buy out the land owned? For those that don't know, how much land would have to be bought to make it viable and at what cost?

No doubt Vic Park could be done, but it would obviously be expansive, but Collingwood is a beast of a club and could get it done re money. Problem with buying out land is that there will be a Bruno Grollo -Fairfield - type scenario where someone refuses to sell.

 

[TW Sherrin]

You asked people to discuss it. I thought that's what I was doing...

The suburb of Collingwood has changed enormously since the glory days of Victoria Park. I doubt the hipsters living there now would appreciate a 50k seater stadium on their doorstep.

Imagine the uproar if they couldn't park their vespas or had to wait for their soy decaf late.

 

[jmac70]

Imagine the uproar if they couldn't park their vespas or had to wait for their soy decaf late.

Perhaps the new stadium could incorporate dedicated Vespa parking and a walk up latte bar.