Buckleys coaching in the Grand Final

[Nobu]

Again, i wasn’t aware you couldnt be emotially invested in football unless you don’t move on from football results.

Lol did you just insult my football team? Settle down mate. Just a civil chat nothing in it.

Who said I didn’t move on from results? I just said I am passionate so results would hit me harder than they would hit a casual.

Think you totally missed what I was insinuating with my second paragraph, but to answer your question, no I wasn’t insulting your footy club.

Anyway, bedtime for me. Working on the other side of town tomorrow. Going to be a pain in the arse driving in this weather. Wish me luck.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Who said I didn’t move on from results? I just said I am passionate so results would hit me harder than they would hit a casual.

Think you totally missed what I was insinuating with my second paragraph, but to answer your question, no I wasn’t insulting your footy club.

Anyway, bedtime for me. Working on the other side of town tomorrow. Going to be a pain in the arse driving in this weather. Wish me luck.

Who are you calling a casual, you casual!

 

[Carringbush2010]

I’d rather finish last than second. You don’t have to deal with the heartbreak and humiliation of losing the big one. You also get a really s**t draft pick.

I'm sure the team you follow would disagree with you. I've seen 11 of our GF's for 2 wins and whilst that is very painful it certainly is better than consistently finishing bottom or near bottom with near zero hope of any success

In order to succeed one must first fail, I get that we're stretching the bow a bit but if we're not in it we can't win it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

A fit Lyndon Dunn/Moore instead of Aish would have made the difference. We needed a proper key back to have negated one of the talls

Agreed but the ideal would've been to win in the middle, we win that we win the flag regardless of the bookend battle - choke WC supply was our only option. No Moore or Dunn was a known quantity before the game.

The mid battle was predicted to go the way it didn't, hence the loss.

 

[BEEG]

What is the most daming to me is that nearly every single Vic media expert tipped Collingwood and didn't rate West Coast a chance at the MCG and that Collingwood were firm favourites. All week I was hearing it, I just couldn't believe it. Garry Lyon the biggest culprit, campaigner is still dumbfounded.

West Coast ball year didnt get rated no idea why i said all year they were clearly the second best team during the H&A season.

 

[yeee_haaaa!!!!!]

Bucks and all the players will have to live with what happened after QT in the 2018 GF for the rest of their lives, will be talked about second only to 1970, don't think you need to rub it in any further with threads like this

Correct. just like richmond have to live with throwing away back to back flags in a pathetic 2 hours on prelim final night when they were the best team of the season by a country mile

 

[domus]

Schofield still killed De Goey deep forward and so on.

Kennedy apparently toweled up Goldsack and kicked three goals. Schofield apparently killed DeGoey who kicked three goals. Interesting.

 

[adammania9]

Schofield is a feel good story in that premiership team but he did not under any circumstances “dominate” De Goey like a lot of people pedal. For a limited player he played well, but not that well.

 

[DopeMaster]

Gosh, a lot of knobs and trolls in this thread, thought I was in Bay 13 reading through some of it.

Think the OP is fairly poor analysis, the type you make when you start with an intended outcome in mind then try your best to rationalise it.

West Coast beat us three times this year and have a better balanced side. The fact we got within a kick in a Grand Final we had no business being in is evidence of Buckley’s good coaching, not bad coaching. Fairly simple I would have thought.

 

[Catsnlakers]

Coughing up a 29 point lead to lose the Grand Final. That's poor coaching. Absolutely the players play, but you've got to protect that lead better, that rarely happens in a GF, usually 29 points is game over.

That is very selective use of stat's right their, yes they were 29 points up, but that was by the 20 min mark of the first quarter.....From a neutral perspective it was as simple as West Coast's big guns played to their optimum ( Kennedy, McGovern & Shuey ) & the Pies big guns did not ( Pendles, Sidebottom & Grundy ).....This happens in team sport!..... Remind us again how the Tiges went in the prelim without Dusty, Cotchin & Rance playing very well!?.

 

[juss]

That is very selective use of stat's right their, yes they were 29 points up, but that was by the 20 min mark of the first quarter.....From a neutral perspective it was as simple as West Coast's big guns played to their optimum ( Kennedy, McGovern & Shuey ) & the Pies big guns did not ( Pendles, Sidebottom & Grundy ).....This happens in team sport!..... Remind us again how the Tiges went in the prelim without Dusty, Cotchin & Rance playing very well!?.

Thread has nothing to do with the Tigers loss, we were also outcoached and outplayed on the night.

This is about Buckley. There is nothing selective about a fact, 29 points is a fact, it was the biggest margin of the day and although it was early, the fact it was so early meant that the Pies had the full opportunity to step on the throat of the Eagles and bury them for good. The game basically could have been won with another goal, maybe two for good measure.

When you are 29 points up the ball is in your court entirely, your opponent must outplay you in about 90 minutes of footy. Buckley just had to break even from from that point and they win easily.

Absolutely the players play, but if that's your counter arguement then no point ever discussing coaching performance.

 

[WillieNillie]

Kennedy apparently toweled up Goldsack and kicked three goals. Schofield apparently killed DeGoey who kicked three goals. Interesting.

Two of De Goeys goals came when he was in the midfield not on Schofield. All of Kennedys goals were directly on Goldsack

Didnt think that one was hard to figure out. Hell it was the point of this entire thread

 

[WillieNillie]

Thread has nothing to do with the Tigers loss, we were also outcoached and outplayed on the night.

This is about Buckley. There is nothing selective about a fact, 29 points is a fact, it was the biggest margin of the day and although it was early, the fact it was so early meant that the Pies had the full opportunity to step on the throat of the Eagles and bury them for good. The game basically could have been won with another goal, maybe two for good measure.

When you are 29 points up the ball is in your court entirely, your opponent must outplay you in about 90 minutes of footy. Buckley just had to break even from from that point and they win easily.

Absolutely the players play, but if that's your counter arguement then no point ever discussing coaching performance.

I said it in the OP. Buckley coached the game like his team was losing the contest and needed to defend the lead after half time. They needed to do more to attack and score

 

[domus]

Two of De Goeys goals came when he was in the midfield not on Schofield. All of Kennedys goals were directly on Goldsack

Didnt think that one was hard to figure out. Hell it was the point of this entire thread

You make a good point.

 

[TTRRAAVVIISS]

I said it in the OP. Buckley coached the game like his team was losing the contest and needed to defend the lead after half time. They needed to do more to attack and score

Actually, one of Buckley’s biggest weaknesses as a coach is not being able to defend a lead and encouraging run and gun attacking play that inevitably leads to a turnover and scoring opportunity for the opposition in red time.

From like the 28 min mark of the 1st qtr the score was 11.11 to 6.7. A lot of WCE goals came in red time due to a lack of defensive accountability and desire to lock the ball up and waste the clock. It’s a key failure in Buckley’s game style.

People saying we got within in a kick need a reality check. If Darling doesn’t choke and spill a mark they win by two kicks. And if WCE kicked straight, your talking about a 29 point lead turning into a 29 point loss. Which is completely unacceptable on the biggest stage, at your home ground and in a game that I personally believe was unlosable.

Buckley doesn’t seize the big moments as a coach. After wce first goal in the 1st with like 2 mins on the clock what did we do? We certainly didn’t sieze the moment and flood the backline and make sure we went to quarter time 23 points up. We ran around like headless chooks and Rioli (I think) seized on Langdon dropped mark and shunned it thru. Langdon could punched it thru for a point but took the more risky option to mark it.

And have a look at the end of the 2nd qtr. Stopage at wce HFF and two wce eagles players are un marked. No defensive accountability. Sheed roves draws players handballs to shuey and he kicks truly.

Then the risky option from Adams kicking up the guts in red time in the 3rd. And don’t get me started on the decision making in the last 5 mins in the game. Repeat stoppages and defending the lead was what was needed. Yet most of our players pushed up fwd of the ball and kept trying to attack instead of play the percentages and kill the ball. Which then lead to a systematic defensive failure that allowed Sheed to have no direct opponent on HFF with 2 mins on the clock.

If I saw another club capitulate like we did on GF after leading 29 points I’d be ripping into the coach saying “wtf is guy doing?” Eagles midfield was without Gaff too. And they completely smashed us when it mattered. Not just with a few minutes in the 4th, but in red time each and every qtr. That’s not bad luck. It’s poor execution and poor coaching.

Since 2014, we’re something like 3-10 in games with results less than 6 points. Ive seen it time and time again and said for years that there are clear flaws in Buckley’s methods. Too much is left to luck under Buckley’s game plan. Even in his press conference his rationale was that the players stopped running and lost their dare to take risks.

And that’s the problem with Bucks. He wants them to take risks the whole game, yet most of the time you just have to play the percentages and remain accountable. And WCE we’re accountable far more than Collingwood on grand final day. In my view, I think the loss reflects poor coaching and strategy than it does bad luck.

 

[carnaroys08]

Did Simpson make moves to correct things after Collingwood's 5 goals or did he rely on his system to come good?
Genuine question for those who analysed the game, as it would help to settle the old question of how much influence a coach has on gameday

Jarman to FF on Shanahan ?

 

[carnaroys08]

Yep but that doesn't suit the Buckley haters lol.

Was never a Buckley fan, however he won me over this year. The way his image changed (from the eyes of an outsider) was phenomenal. He's actually very likeable now (pity as l love disliking Collingwood).
Whilst I substantially agree with the OP, I've still unanswered questions regarding the GF. Imo, as the Eagles were getting back into the game, it looked like they were going to go straight past Collingwood & give them a touch up. I only watched the game once & thought the Eagles were lucky to win after choking OR did Buckley make good moves to take away what looked like unstoppable momentum running with the Eagles ?

 

[Apsaalooke]

Jarman to FF on Shanahan ?

Or conversely, Shanahan off Jarman at FF

 

[kranky al]

Kennedy apparently toweled up Goldsack and kicked three goals. Schofield apparently killed DeGoey who kicked three goals. Interesting.

Afaik either none or maybe one of those goals was kicked on schoey.

He kicked two from the midfield for sure - not sure about the third

 

[domus]

People saying we got within in a kick need a reality check. If Darling doesn’t choke and spill a mark they win by two kicks.

If Greenwood doesn't block Degoey's snap on goal with his turned back we win by double digits.

 

[domus]

Eagles midfield was without Gaff too. And they completely smashed us when it mattered. Not just with a few minutes in the 4th, but in red time each and every qtr. That’s not bad luck.

Their midfield smashed us yet we led for 98% of the game. Some smashing.

 

[JezzasOnTheAsphalt]

Actually, one of Buckley’s biggest weaknesses as a coach is not being able to defend a lead and encouraging run and gun attacking play that inevitably leads to a turnover and scoring opportunity for the opposition in red time.

In the Grand Final context, I wouldn't expect many AFL coaches to start playing 'defend a lead' footy because of a first quarter lead, no matter how comfortable it is. No doubt there were risks taken and perhaps a lack of accountability, but I don't blame the bloke for encouraging attacking play rather than trying to defend a 5 goal lead for 3 quarters

 

[TTRRAAVVIISS]

In the Grand Final context, I wouldn't expect many AFL coaches to start playing 'defend a lead' footy because of a first quarter lead, no matter how comfortable it is. No doubt there were risks taken and perhaps a lack of accountability, but I don't blame the bloke for encouraging attacking play rather than trying to defend a 5 goal lead for 3 quarters

To clarify my point somewhat. I’m not saying defend the lead for the next 3rd qtrs. I’m saying in red time, it’s ok to play the percentages, lock it down, play out the clock and make sure you don’t give up any points via unforced errors.

Go balls out all you want for the first 20 mins of a qtr. but you have to be able to read the room, know when momentum could shift and go into lock down mode.

In each of the 4 qtrs on GF day we coughed up points in red time cause they are coached to attack at all cost and have a pro risk approach to game day. It’s an approach that’s cost us plenty of games under 6 points since 2014 (3-10).

Take HFC for example. At times, they can smash teams by taking risks and then when it’s close or in red time they’ll lock down and defend a small lead time and again.

Under Clarko the hawks are 15-4 since 2014 in games under 6 points. That’s truly remarkable considering the rebuild they’ve undertaken since 2015. And if you’ve read Sam Mitchell’s book, you’d understand it ain’t luck, but great coaching and strategy that gets em those wins.

Great coaching and strategy I believe Collingwood did not have on GF day.

 

[Trouto]

View attachment 584561

That guy leaning up against the fence knows how good the goal was

 

[Trouto]

I’d rather finish last than second. You don’t have to deal with the heartbreak and humiliation of losing the big one. You also get a really s**t draft pick.

Lucky for you, the next few years will have you happy then