Opinion Can Dustin Martin be the GOAT? (Answer: no)

[Noidnadroj]

Maybe we should have this discussion after his career has finished, or maybe after his coaching career. Or maybe just when he passes 332 games, 915 goals, 8 Club Champion awards and 8 premierships.

Or maybe when he's in 3 different clubs hall of fames and an AFL legend.

OP is a ******* idiot.

As much as it irks you, 3 x Norm Smiths and 3 x Ayres Medals, 3 x flags, a Brownlow (with record vote tally) plus 4 x AA’s puts Martin in the GOAT conversation. How many best on grounds in finals and Grand Finals do you think he needs to get himself a seat at the table? If he wins 3 NS, 3 flags, 4 x AA’s and plays 350 games and kicks 500 goals he’s earned a chair. And that’s the minimum of what he’s on track to achieve..... so stand by


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[Darren Moore]

Moral character comes into it when you talk about GOATs.

 

[Melvin]

Yes he can be if he improves.

...but we could say that about anyone.

 

[Slysh]

As much as it irks you, 3 x Norm Smiths and 3 x Ayres Medals, 3 x flags, a Brownlow (with record vote tally) plus 4 x AA’s puts Martin in the GOAT conversation. How many best on grounds in finals and Grand Finals do you think he needs to get himself a seat at the table? If he wins 3 NS, 3 flags, 4 x AA’s and plays 350 games and kicks 500 goals he’s earned a chair. And that’s the minimum of what he’s on track to achieve..... so stand by


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Being the GOAT means he needs to show he can consistently be the best player in the game across an entire season including finals. His finals record is insane but regular season does matter.

2 x B&F shows he has not even consistently been the best on his team.

Dusty MIGHT go down as the best of his generation but is not catching Lethal.

 

[My Tilly]

Being the GOAT means he needs to show he can consistently be the best player in the game across an entire season including finals. His finals record is insane but regular season does matter.

2 x B&F shows he has not even consistently been the best on his team.

Dusty MIGHT go down as the best of his generation but is not catching Lethal.

He's not even close to Carey either.

 

[Slysh]

He's not even close to Carey either.

Also still behind Ablett and Franklin from this generation.

 

[Richo83]

Being the GOAT means he needs to show he can consistently be the best player in the game across an entire season including finals. His finals record is insane but regular season does matter.

2 x B&F shows he has not even consistently been the best on his team.

Dusty MIGHT go down as the best of his generation but is not catching Lethal.

Judging players based off best and fairest awards isn't a good idea. Ablett snr won the best and fairest once. Mark Bos won it twice (who? exactly). Best and fairests often go to the player who has shown the ability to stick to the team script, play well consistently and also often goes to a rising star. It isn't a reflection on the merits of players. Franklin has won as many best and fairests as James Worpel

5

James Worpel

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.2

5star

HB

11.3

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

5.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

15.6

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

9.4

5star

M

1.0

1star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.8

4star

. Short won it this year because he's a rising star who stuck to the gameplan well and the coaches respected that. But the tigers' best player this year was Martin. Ask any neutral who had a better season and they'll tell you it was him.

 

[WCE_phil]

I will admit however his performances in Grand Finals have been exceptional.

 

[Richo83]

Maybe we should have this discussion after his career has finished, or maybe after his coaching career. Or maybe just when he passes 332 games, 915 goals, 8 Club Champion awards and 8 premierships.

Matthews is before my time. But from what I've seen in his grand finals, is he really clearly better? I saw a player who kicked a lot of goals... in an era where players kicked a lot of goals. He is one of the greats, but is he clearly better? Genuine question, how many Matthews games have you seen? Can you point to a season where he was clearly better than Martin? I'd love to see it as, maybe he is better.

Also in what world did Matthews win 8 premierships? He won four.

Or maybe when he's in 3 different clubs hall of fames and an AFL legend.

OP is a ******* idiot.

Only one as a player though. This is a discussion purely about playing. Coaching is a completely different job. And I predict that Martin will join the Richmond hall of fame pretty soon.

 

[Slysh]

Judging players based off best and fairest awards isn't a good idea. Ablett snr won the best and fairest once. Mark Bos won it twice (who? exactly). Best and fairests often go to the player who has shown the ability to stick to the team script, play well consistently and also often goes to a rising star. It isn't a reflection on the merits of players. Franklin has won as many best and fairests as James Worpel

5

James Worpel

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.2

5star

HB

11.3

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

5.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

15.6

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

9.4

5star

M

1.0

1star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.8

4star

. Short won it this year because he's a rising star who stuck to the gameplan well and the coaches respected that. But the tigers' best player this year was Martin. Ask any neutral who had a better season and they'll tell you it was him.

I agree they should not be judged solely off B&F but when discussing the GOAT we are judging the best of the very best. We have to nit pick. Dustys finals record put him in the top echelon of players. I think other players have shown to consistently perform year round which set them apart from Dusty to this point.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Also still behind Ablett and Franklin from this generation.

He’s behind Judd as well. Could and likely will catch him. For me personally Voss wasn’t half bad either as a captain too. Buddy may end up a matter of preference. Won’t get past Ablett and therefore will never be the GOAT. The next 3-4 years will shape Martin’s legacy.

GOAT finals performer though. I think that’s clear now.

 

[Richo83]

I agree they should not be judged solely off B&F but when discussing the GOAT we are judging the best of the very best. We have to nit pick. Dustys finals record put him in the top echelon of players. I think other players have shown to consistently perform year round which set them apart from Dusty to this point.

Consistency has nothing to do with best and fairest wins. It's fine to nitpick but they have to make sense. A fair nitpick is that he starts seasons slowly and doesn't play at his peak in every game.

 

[blaisee]

Moral character comes into it when you talk about GOATs.

100 %

Loyalty comes first.

That’s why GAJ cannot be considered

 

[Noidnadroj]

Being the GOAT means he needs to show he can consistently be the best player in the game across an entire season including finals. His finals record is insane but regular season does matter.

2 x B&F shows he has not even consistently been the best on his team.

Dusty MIGHT go down as the best of his generation but is not catching Lethal.

Have you seen his top-3 B&F record .... 7 times. Gablett senior won 1 x B&F.

Remember, Lethal never won a Brownlow and that’s the highest H&A accolade there is in the game. Nor did Carey, Dunstall, Gablett snr, KB etc..... so there are anomalies everywhere. Dusty is on track to get over 200 career Brownlow votes, putting him top-5 of all-time. Surely that’s a sign of consistent H&A excellence..??


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[Darren Moore]

100 %

Loyalty comes first.

That’s why GAJ cannot be considered

I take into account off field indiscretions and who they associate with.

 

[nut]

Moral character comes into it when you talk about GOATs.

Neville bruns says hi

 

[Vassp]

Also still behind Ablett and Franklin from this generation.

Dusty is better than Franklin, and I admire Franklin.

 

[blaisee]

I take into account off field indiscretions and who they associate with.

really?

What off field discretions?

Allegations, Innuendo, garbage.

You want to play that game, Leigh Mathews disqualifies himself and so does the whole Ablett family

 

[HTT]

really?

What off field discretions?

Allegations, Innuendo, garbage.

You want to play that game, Leigh Mathews disqualifies himself and so does the whole Ablett family

But, but, but, he goes to Vegas with swanny!!

 

[dustysnecktattoo]

GOAT level achieved

 

[tucky74]

Have you seen his top-3 B&F record .... 7 times. Gablett senior won 1 x B&F.

Remember, Lethal never won a Brownlow and that’s the highest H&A accolade there is in the game. Nor did Carey, Dunstall, Gablett snr, KB etc..... so there are anomalies everywhere. Dusty is on track to get over 200 career Brownlow votes, putting him top-5 of all-time. Surely that’s a sign of consistent H&A excellence..??


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the names you quoted is why the “Brownlow” isn’t considered the be all and end all of the best players.

please don’t use officials to strengthen your argument

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

Have you seen his top-3 B&F record .... 7 times. Gablett senior won 1 x B&F

How many times did Senior come top 3?

 

[My Tilly]

How many times did Senior come top 3?

He did it quite a few times.
I know he finished runner up 4 times.
Probably finished third a couple more times too. Was often suspended and missed 3-4 games per season.

 

[queensberryrules]

He has certainly leapfrogged Fyfe, who in 7 years HASNT improved his kicking, whilst Martin has self-improved beyond expectation. Who would have 7 years ago picked Martin as the smarter one who would take control of his professional progress far better?

 

[PhatBoy]

As much as it irks you, 3 x Norm Smiths and 3 x Ayres Medals, 3 x flags, a Brownlow (with record vote tally) plus 4 x AA’s puts Martin in the GOAT conversation. How many best on grounds in finals and Grand Finals do you think he needs to get himself a seat at the table? If he wins 3 NS, 3 flags, 4 x AA’s and plays 350 games and kicks 500 goals he’s earned a chair. And that’s the minimum of what he’s on track to achieve..... so stand by


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No it doesn't.