Society/Culture Can we please stop equating the risk posed by left wing extremists with that of right wing extremists?

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Malifice

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Lets be clear here. I denounce extremism and terrorism in all its forms. Islamic, ethno-nationalist, left wing and right wing. You name it.

But I am getting sick to death of the usual crew trying to play down the threat posed by right wing extremism. We've seen recent examples of far right wing extremism time and time again in Christchurch, Norway, Calgary, Oklahoma, Charleston, El Paso, Poway etc etc. Right wing extremists and neo-fascists, radicalised online (via social media sites like 8kun, 4chan, Stormfront, and increasingly twitter, Facebook and Youtube).

Mosques, Churches, Synagogues, Government buildings and employees and other sites targeted by radicalised right wingers. Mass shootings. Bombings. Car attacks. All the hallmarks of Islamic terrorism, replete with internet radicalisation of disenfranchised angry young men (and it's always men) convinced of some sort of 'clash of the cultures' and the need to kill civilians, women and kids 'for a greater good'.

And the problem of radicalised RWNJ's is growing at a rapid rate.

In Australia, Right wing extremism accounts for 40 percent of ASIO's counterterrorism efforts:

ASIO deputy director-general Heather Cook said up to 40 per cent of the agency's counterterrorism efforts are now focussed on thwarting violent plots by right-wing groups or individuals.

Ms Cook has also revealed that ASIO is concerned that right-wing extremists are now using the same strategies as Islamic extremists to bolster their ranks.

"I think not dissimilar to the way ISIL [Islamic State] used its propaganda and its ability to manipulate social media to recruit the young and the vulnerable — I think we are seeing a similar phenomenon being used by some in that extreme right-wing milieu to good effect," she said.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-22/right-wing-extremists-asio-islamic-state-tactics/12690002

In the USA, far right wing terrorism accounts for the majority of all terrorist incidents since 1994, committing 2/3 of all plots and attacks in 2019, and over 90 percent to May 2020:

Far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states

And the irony of the above, is you always see the usual flood of right wingers storming in to defend the above, or downplay it. The very same people that were prepared to denounce all Muslims on account of Islamic terrorism, and called for draconian laws and banning of radicalised Islamic extremists and preachers, are now pushing for the Lauren Southerns and similar far right wing agitators of the world and their 'freedom' to spruike their sh*t, and radicalise even more people.

Even worse, they try and label loosely aligned anti-fascist groups as 'terrorists' and draw this false equivalency between them and the radicalised neo-fascist mass murderers from the Right or from the Islamic extremist variety (none of whom I'll name here, may they all rot in Hell).

It's about time that false equivalence was called out for what it is. A deflection and a denial by right wingers and neo-fascists about the evils of the very far right wing ideologies they hold so dear.

Instead of downplaying and deflecting, the real question is: What can be done about the surge in neo-fascist and far right wing terrorism?
 

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Malifice

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Can we please stop equating the risk posed by left wing extremists and right wing extremists with that of Islamist extremists?
Right on cue, a right winger comes in to deflect.

Are you aware that Islamic extremism is itself a form of Right wing extremism? Both types of extremists seek to use violence to impose (or maintain) a hierarchical, patriarchal, reactionary, traditional and conservative social and political system. Both types of extremists are increasingly radicalised online.

Ironically, both also hate the Jews. Because that train is never late.

The fact is that right wing extremism is the largest domestic terror threat in the USA at present, and currently accounts for 40 percent (and rising) of the domestic terror threat here in Australia as well.

Whine about anti-fascists all you like, but trying to equate left wing extremism with right wing extremism is deflection in the extreme.
 

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Right on cue, a right winger comes in to deflect.

Are you aware that Islamic extremism is itself a form of Right wing extremism? Both types of extremists seek to use violence to impose (or maintain) a hierarchical, patriarchal, reactionary, traditional and conservative social and political system. Both types of extremists are increasingly radicalised online.

Ironically, both also hate the Jews. Because that train is never late.

The fact is that right wing extremism is the largest domestic terror threat in the USA at present, and currently accounts for 40 percent (and rising) of the domestic terror threat here in Australia as well.

Whine about anti-fascists all you like, but trying to equate left wing extremism with right wing extremism is deflection in the extreme.
How many seppos have those peaceful BLM rioter killed so far?
 

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Are you aware that Islamic extremism is itself a form of Right wing extremism? Both types of extremists seek to use violence to impose (or maintain) a hierarchical, patriarchal, reactionary, traditional and conservative social and political system. Both types of extremists are increasingly radicalised online.
So the right wing extremists are a problem because they are targeting right wing extremists?

The fact is that right wing extremism is the largest domestic terror threat in the USA at present, and currently accounts for 40 percent (and rising) of the domestic terror threat here in Australia as well.
You are shouting at clouds,

To quote ASIO

While Sunni Islamist extremism is the primary terrorist threat facing Australia, other groups continue to engage in politically motivated violence and the promotion of communal violence. These groups are diverse and have differing agendas, including extreme right-wing and extreme left-wing ideologies. Small subsets of individuals in these groups are willing to use violence to further their own interests. While their activities are concerning, they remain a small part of their broader movements and are presently unlikely to lead to wide-scale violence or pose a threat to social cohesion.
 

Malifice

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So the right wing extremists are a problem because they are targeting right wing extremists?
They're not. They're targeting women and kids praying in synagogues, churches, mosques, kids on Islands in Norway, peaceful protesters and government employees.

While Sunni Islamist extremism is the primary terrorist threat facing Australia
More deflection and Nazi cheer-leeding.

I denounced Salafi Islamic extremism in my opening line of the OP, and concede it's a massive threat that has only been overtaken as the number 1 threat in the USA recently by your lot.

How about you do the same for Right wing extremism?

Specifically, I challenge to you to denounce right wing extremism, and the fascist political ideology behind it, instead of being an apologist for it, or trying to draw some kind of false equivalence to right wing and left wing extremism.

Can you do that?
 

ExcitementMachine

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The discussion in itself is more nuanced and key points go over the head of the OP. OP is dishonest and; like a lot of the RWNJ's on this board after a terrorist attack, after the one major terror attack committed by a RWNJ Brenton Tarrant - this person was like a pig in sh*t to the Christchurch thread.

There's no legitimate grievance - to choose to gun down people in a mosque - or - strap a bomb to oneself and blow up the Young and Jacksons. The nuance is there are reasons of which I tried my darndest explaining to this guy and they aren't just black or white. And yes, it's not nice but, the OP is part of the problem - as long as he blindly supports ANTIFA and absolutely while he revels in the actual statistic - true or false - for his dialogue in this thread.

The extreme's of both the left and right are as bad as each other and poor fuel on the fire. Malifice is part of the problem.
 

Taylor

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We don't want either right wing or left wing extremist groups having any power politically.

When the right wing get in they start causing millions of deaths in other countries, when the left wing get in they kill a hundred million of their own people enacting their social policy.
 

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Right-wing extremists using Islamic State tactics to recruit, ASIO warns, amid spike in surveillanc

Australia's domestic spy agency has revealed a dramatic rise in the number of violent right-wing extremists under surveillance, while warning some groups are now employing Islamic State-style radicalisation tactics.

ASIO deputy director-general Heather Cook said up to 40 per cent of the agency's counterterrorism efforts are now focussed on thwarting violent plots by right-wing groups or individuals.


 

Number37

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The discussion in itself is more nuanced and key points go over the head of the OP. OP is dishonest and; like a lot of the RWNJ's on this board after a terrorist attack, after the one major terror attack committed by a RWNJ Brenton Tarrant - this person was like a pig in sh*t to the Christchurch thread.

There's no legitimate grievance - to choose to gun down people in a mosque - or - strap a bomb to oneself and blow up the Young and Jacksons. The nuance is there are reasons of which I tried my darndest explaining to this guy and they aren't just black or white. And yes, it's not nice but, the OP is part of the problem - as long as he blindly supports ANTIFA and absolutely while he revels in the actual statistic - true or false - for his dialogue in this thread.

The extreme's of both the left and right are as bad as each other and poor fuel on the fire. Malifice is part of the problem.

It may be more nuanced but when has terrorism ever been discussed with nuance?
NEVER!

Whilst it is possible to draw distinctions between the motives of individual terrorists, tying those individual motives to a broader ideology isn't automatically a bad thing.
If you murder one person you're a murderer, if you murder 10 people you're a serial killer. We don't say that a person who has murdered 10 people isn't a serial killer just because the motives behind each murder were not identical. Serial killer being the broader ideology.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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The fact is that right wing extremism is the largest domestic terror threat in the USA at present, and currently accounts for 40 percent (and rising) of the domestic terror threat here in Australia as well.
'up to'

More deflection and Nazi cheer-leeding.
I quoted ASIO. ASIO are Nazi cheer leaders?

your lot.
LOL.

Specifically, I challenge to you to denounce right wing extremism, and the fascist political ideology behind it, instead of being an apologist for it, or trying to draw some kind of false equivalence to right wing and left wing extremism.
Maybe as a reformed Fascist you feel the need to make such declarations. I have never supported, or apologised for, any kind of extremism.

Do you stand by your claim that BLM supporters burning people's property to the ground was not violence?

I seriously question your mental state. You are displaying the same kinds of paranoia as some of the nut jobs that go on killing sprees.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Right-wing extremists using Islamic State tactics to recruit, ASIO warns, amid spike in surveillanc

Australia's domestic spy agency has revealed a dramatic rise in the number of violent right-wing extremists under surveillance, while warning some groups are now employing Islamic State-style radicalisation tactics.

ASIO deputy director-general Heather Cook said up to 40 per cent of the agency's counterterrorism efforts are now focussed on thwarting violent plots by right-wing groups or individuals.


Well done BJ. That was posted in the OP. Maybe stick to copying and pasting Covid stats.
 

ExcitementMachine

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It may be more nuanced but when has terrorism ever been discussed with nuance?
NEVER!

Whilst it is possible to draw distinctions between the motives of individual terrorists, tying those individual motives to a broader ideology isn't automatically a bad thing.
If you murder one person you're a murderer, if you murder 10 people you're a serial killer. We don't say that a person who has murdered 10 people isn't a serial killer just because the motives behind each murder were not identical. Serial killer being the broader ideology.
There's no legitimate grievance - for mass murder - OP believes there is and some sort of hierarchy in regards to grievances in association with terrorism.

There are many reasons - the politics of Scott Morrison's targeting of islamaphobic votes maybe more or less culpable then the brand of politics espoused by groups such as ANTIFA and sentiments from College campuses for the rise of Right Wing extremism.

That ladder might be confronting to people like Malifice but if he's passionate about confronting this problem - and it's something to be ashamed of - he has to look into a mirror at his own behavouir.

As it is, it's f’ed up to try and understand the Muslim psychopath - yet, when to right wing extremism - which is abhorent - to not make any efforts to understand the underlying reasons how it got this bad.
 

Number37

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There's no legitimate grievance - for mass murder - OP believes there is and some sort of hierarchy in regards to grievances in association with terrorism.

Until the mid 90's-ish we were a strong supporter of the Taliban, so was the USA & UK & France and all the partners in the "coalition of the willing".
We had no issue with the legitimacy of their grievance with the Soviets.

For exactly the same grievance we became their enemy.
So, it's not a question of legitimacy.

Unfortunately, we don't get to decide what other people think is legitimate. It doesn't work that way.

Part of the solution to the mass murder problem is that we have to accept that grievances are legitimate so that we can encourage those that believe they have a legitimate grievance that mass murder isn't the solution.
 

ExcitementMachine

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Until the mid 90's-ish we were a strong supporter of the Taliban, so was the USA & UK & France and all the partners in the "coalition of the willing".
We had no issue with the legitimacy of their grievance with the Soviets.

For exactly the same grievance we became their enemy.
So, it's not a question of legitimacy.

Unfortunately, we don't get to decide what other people think is legitimate. It doesn't work that way.

Part of the solution to the mass murder problem is that we have to accept that grievances are legitimate so that we can encourage those that believe they have a legitimate grievance that mass murder isn't the solution.
I was just a kid in the nineties it had nothing to do with me.
Most terrorist attacks - or a good percentage here in Aus - are second generation migrants - almost always has next to nothing to do with what happened in Afghanistan.

People have a legitimate grievance with say, The Greens party - who - are savage on Right Wing terrorism - but to reference SHY - offer thoughts and prayers when it comes to Islamic terrorism. And that's just at the surface. This sort of politics is very influential in society today - cancel culture is real.

It would be racist to think that you talk for white people, because your white. You have many things you identify with - and your left leaning identity is of far greater significance to you then your whiteness. And we don't get to decide what is a legitimate grievance. There's no legitimacy to mass murder. Yes grievances are legitimate - and with the rise of Right Wing extremism - the far left, cancel culture are absolutely part of the problem.

ANTIFA are failures and absolutely so are the social scientists who espouse the cancel culture rhetoric. The OP is absolutely a failure. He should be more ashamed then most given his long time investment into the 'problem'.
 
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Number37

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I was just a kid in the nineties it had nothing to do with me.
Most terrorist attacks - or a good percentage here in Aus - are second generation migrants - almost always has next to nothing to do with what happened in Afghanistan.

People have a legitimate grievance with say, The Greens party - who - are savage on Right Wing terrorism - but to reference SHY - offer thoughts and prayers when it comes to Islamic terrorism. And that's just at the surface. This sort of politics is very influential in society today - cancel culture is real.

It would be racist to think that you talk for white people, because your white. You have many things you identify with - and your left leaning identity is of far greater significance to you then your whiteness. And we don't get to decide what is a legitimate grievance. There's no legitimacy to mass murder. Yes grievances are legitimate - and with the rise of Right Wing extremism - the far left, cancel culture are absolutely part of the problem.

ANTIFA are failures and absolutely so are the social scientists who espouse the cancel culture rhetoric. The OP is absolutely a failure. He should be more ashamed then most given his long time investment into the 'problem'.
That's a very long winded of saying you hate SHY and Antifa and that you have a bee in your bonnet about Malifice.

Which doesn't address the subject of the discussion.
 

ExcitementMachine

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That's a very long winded of saying you hate SHY and Antifa and that you have a bee in your bonnet about Malifice.

Which doesn't address the subject of the discussion.
Nope, don't hate SHY - find her more appealing and agree with a lot of what she has to say more so than conservatives. Try addressing my post - I know it's confronting as to what you identify with - your values - even your online identity.
 

Malifice

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There's no legitimate grievance - for mass murder.
Mass murder is never justified, and I have never once said it was. I've said that extremism doesnt exist in a vaccuum and that terrorists have grievances (usually expressed in a manifesto or similar) against another group.

So you dont think the IRA had any actual grievances? Tell me what their grievances were please. Why were they attacking the English?

How about Al-Queda? Tell me what their grievances were. Why did they target the USA?

Now try doing the same with Far Right wing terrorists. Tell me what their grievances are? 'Cultural Marxism'? 'The Left'? Explain to me the evils of socially progressive politics please.
 

Malifice

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You support ANTIFA"S cause.
No, I repudiate violence in any form other than in legitimate self defence, or the defence of others. I support their cause in that their cause is to oppose fascism.

But if that makes me an 'ANTIFA supporter' then it also makes the Allies in WW2 ANTIFA supporters. It makes those that opposed Franco in Spain, Mussolini in Italy or the White Rose movement in Nazi Germany 'ANTIFA supporters'.
 

Number37

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Nope, don't hate SHY - find her more appealing and agree with a lot of what she has to say more so than conservatives. Try addressing my post - I know it's confronting as to what you identify with - your values - even your online identity.
Again, incoherent rambling.

What is confronting to identify with?
 

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