Preview Changes: R20 vs Western Bulldogs

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1970crow

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Walker, Lynch, Fogarty and Himmelberg doesn’t scream ‘defensive presssure’; Rowe doesn’t add much either.

I’m hoping we’re putting Lynch and H’berg in the shop window because it seems we’ll get very little in return for Matt Crouch and/or Talia.

Anyone want those four plus Kelly for a first rounder?
We've never concerned ourselves with how pressureless the majority of our forward line is because we think we can deploy one player to focus solely on making up for the other 5. But Fog does get after opposition and ground ball with serious intent, but he's definitely not closing anyone down from metres away the way that Gov used. Sidebar, what a waste of talent that career is turning out to be.

Lynch is UFA, it doesn't matter what he's offered, he'll pick whatever club aligns best with what he wants out of the next 2+ years. I would expect he'd take less $ to go to a contender with a coaching extension included in the deal. If all those go, noting only Berg is not FA, you'd think we'd be able to package up to get Dogs first rounder. They need points and I doubt we need heaps of 2nd and 3rd round picks.
 

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1970crow

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“Repeatedly failed in ball kicked to direct opponent scenarios”...

have you got the stats to back that up?..

i cant recall him turning it over by directly kicking to an opponent many times, if any, all..

I think you may have just completely made that up!..

edit: just looked... his disposal efficiency for the game was actually 100%.

the disdain for Frampton around here from some is pretty funny really..

Yes, he’s sh*t... but atleast use fact when attempting to write him off.

and this season he’s been a shitload better than himmelberg..
zero clangers, zero turnovers.
 

bayside_crow

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“Repeatedly failed in ball kicked to direct opponent scenarios”...

have you got the stats to back that up?..

i cant recall him turning it over by directly kicking to an opponent many times, if any, all..

I think you may have just completely made that up!..

edit: just looked... his disposal efficiency for the game was actually 100%.

the disdain for Frampton around here from some is pretty funny really..

Yes, he’s sh*t... but atleast use fact when attempting to write him off.

and this season he’s been a shitload better than himmelberg..
I interpreted Interloper’s comment as ‘he failed every time the ball was kicked to his direct opponent (I.e. the person Frampton was standing). So was only effective when third man in etc…’




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FR0GGY

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“Repeatedly failed in ball kicked to direct opponent scenarios”...

have you got the stats to back that up?..

i cant recall him turning it over by directly kicking to an opponent many times, if any, all..

I think you may have just completely made that up!..

edit: just looked... his disposal efficiency for the game was actually 100%.

the disdain for Frampton around here from some is pretty funny really..

Yes, he’s sh*t... but atleast use fact when attempting to write him off.

and this season he’s been a shitload better than himmelberg..
Only in the SANFL.
Bergs game last week was better than anything bill has dished up.
 

huludicidal

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Only in the SANFL.
Bergs game last week was better than anything bill has dished up.
This is undeniable fact. Billy, at AFL level, as a forward, has been diabolically bad this season. So much so that he’s literally a 0% chance of ever playing another AFL game as forward. The line is through him now and it’s clear for all to see.

Thought Billy was pretty good against Hawthorn as a defender. But perspective people: a) it was Hawthorn who are literally the worst team in the AFL on current form (well, maybe equal worst with us, but we just knocked them off so I’m handing the crown to them). b) Billy STILL got dropped this week despite that “pretty good” performance, which is evidence that he was only selected because both of Murray and Talia were unavailable, and McAsey has essentially been put on ice for 2021.

Himmelberg’s game against the Hawks was very impressive as a forward and there is just no way Billy is capable of producing that at the top level.
 

Bearded Clam

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This is undeniable fact. Billy, at AFL level, as a forward, has been diabolically bad this season. So much so that he’s literally a 0% chance of ever playing another AFL game as forward. The line is through him now and it’s clear for all to see.

Thought Billy was pretty good against Hawthorn as a defender. But perspective people: a) it was Hawthorn who are literally the worst team in the AFL on current form (well, maybe equal worst with us, but we just knocked them off so I’m handing the crown to them). b) Billy STILL got dropped this week despite that “pretty good” performance, which is evidence that he was only selected because both of Murray and Talia were unavailable, and McAsey has essentially been put on ice for 2021.

Himmelberg’s game against the Hawks was very impressive as a forward and there is just no way Billy is capable of producing that at the top level.
so...

Billy good against hawthorn = bad because remember its just a sh*t team in Hawthornthat he was playing against.

but

himmelberg good against hawthorn = good.

seriously, the himmelberg cheer squad in here is hilarious.

Frampton has been better than himmelberg at all levels this year.. thats how disgustingly sh*t himmelberg has been this year.. because billy has been absolutely terrible at AFL level.

I’d take a tired and struggling TT over both of them everyday of the week and twice on sundays.
 

FR0GGY

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so...

Billy good against hawthorn = bad because remember its just a sh*t team in Hawthornthat he was playing against.

but

himmelberg good against hawthorn = good.

seriously, the himmelberg cheer squad in here is hilarious.

Frampton has been better than himmelberg at all levels this year.
. thats how disgustingly sh*t himmelberg has been this year.. because billy has been absolutely terrible at AFL level.

I’d take a tired and struggling TT over both of them everyday of the week and twice on sundays.
What?
I don’t give two shits about himmelberg, but his game was still better than anything billy has dished up forward or back.
 

WeedsMullet84

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Thought he was ok, but honestly showed less than he did the previous week. Plus he still repeatedly failed in "Ball kicked to direct opponent" scenarios.

He wouldn't be the first defender with that weakness. But those that can overcome it are basically perfect in every other area of defending
Frampton finished the game with 100% disposal efficiency.

If you're going to pretend that you actually watched the game then i really wouldn't throw out random statements like that.

He was clean with his disposal, had a decent amount of intercept marks, good spoils, a few score involvements and was quick in his decision making. Got lost in the contest a few times but overall he was fairly decent. Had a better game than Kelly, IMO.

I reckon the selectors would be telling him if the conditions weren't wet/windy down in Ballarat he may have been in consideration as a 3rd tall.
 

Golumless

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Frampton finished the game with 100% disposal efficiency.

If you're going to pretend that you actually watched the game then i really wouldn't throw out random statements like that.

He was clean with his disposal, had a decent amount of intercept marks, good spoils, a few score involvements and was quick in his decision making. Got lost in the contest a few times but overall he was fairly decent. Had a better game than Kelly, IMO.

I reckon the selectors would be telling if the conditions weren't wet/windy down in Ballarat he may have been in consideration as a 3rd tall.
Considering who our third tall is, there is no point adding insult to injury for Billy by lying to him.

Look, he showed a bit and who knows, he might have a way to win the KPD dogfight we have going on. That's probably enough for now.
 

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Bearded Clam

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I interpreted Interloper’s comment as ‘he failed every time the ball was kicked to his direct opponent (I.e. the person Frampton was standing). So was only effective when third man in etc…’




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If thats the case I retract my comment and apologise to Interloper..

its just not the way I read the initial comment..
 

WheresGroomgone

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We've never concerned ourselves with how pressureless the majority of our forward line is because we think we can deploy one player to focus solely on making up for the other 5. But Fog does get after opposition and ground ball with serious intent, but he's definitely not closing anyone down from metres away the way that Gov used. Sidebar, what a waste of talent that career is turning out to be.

Lynch is UFA, it doesn't matter what he's offered, he'll pick whatever club aligns best with what he wants out of the next 2+ years. I would expect he'd take less $ to go to a contender with a coaching extension included in the deal. If all those go, noting only Berg is not FA, you'd think we'd be able to package up to get Dogs first rounder. They need points and I doubt we need heaps of 2nd and 3rd round picks.

What's happened to old Gov - I can't see him on CFC injury list is he playing VFL?

Yet another classic case of wasted talent.
 

Geoffa32

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so...

Billy good against hawthorn = bad because remember its just a sh*t team in Hawthornthat he was playing against.

but

himmelberg good against hawthorn = good.

seriously, the himmelberg cheer squad in here is hilarious.

Frampton has been better than himmelberg at all levels this year.. thats how disgustingly sh*t himmelberg has been this year.. because billy has been absolutely terrible at AFL level.

I’d take a tired and struggling TT over both of them everyday of the week and twice on sundays.
Given TT's groin injury, resting him for as long as needed in his first year is a good strategy.

Ten year plus elite player, no need to rush him back for a few games this year.

Going forward Hberg and Frampton are depth/delist/trade.

First choice KPF Fog TT and Tex. Gollant could well be long term Tex replacement?

First Choice KPD Butts, Murray, McAsey

McAsey either end. Plus Worrell.



Frampton and Hberg should be behind these 7 players in terms of KPP at either end next year.




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Bearded Clam

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Given TT's groin injury, resting him for as long as needed in his first year is a good strategy.

Ten year plus elite player, no need to rush him back for a few games this year.

Going forward Hberg and Frampton are depth/delist/trade.

First choice KPF Fog TT and Tex. Gollant could well be long term Tex replacement?

First Choice KPD Butts, Murray, McAsey

McAsey either end. Plus Worrell.



Frampton and Hberg should be behind these 7 players in terms of KPP at either end next year.




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Yeah.. i think at the end of the day we are all probably wasting our time arguing over whos better out of himmelberg and frampton..

the answer is neither.

would like to see more of McAsey up forward in the SANFL and maybe even throw him in up forward for the last game of the year against the kanga’s.

there nothing to lose from it..
 

triggyscrewedus

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Should seriously be looking at trading Scholl now to get value.. was cheap as chips we have dressed him up but he isn't going to get anybetter from here.
He is as fit as they get, not "worn down after a long season" blah blah..
It's obvious he cannot or more so WILL NOT attack a hard ball and the club has been trying to fix it since it became glaringly obvious in the showdown.

Pick 4 and Scholl to North for Horne.
 

Golumless

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Should seriously be looking at trading Scholl now to get value.. was cheap as chips we have dressed him up but he isn't going to get anybetter from here.
He is as fit as they get, not "worn down after a long season" blah blah..
It's obvious he cannot or more so WILL NOT attack a hard ball and the club has been trying to fix it since it became glaringly obvious in the showdown.

Pick 4 and Scholl to North for Horne.
Tell that to Brisbane where he got 12 ground ball gets.

Sholl looks injured, and run down (which is fair enough, it's a long season and he plays a very taxing game), but the kid is going to be a stud outside midfielder long term. Would be absolutely stupid to trade him at this point in time. The goal to accrue talented players, not give them away because some nuffy doesn't get what an outside midfielder is.

All the game for Sholl is now is to find consistency. That he get 20+ disposals week in week out, and I'd also like him to find more marks, and more score involvements. Something Atkins never could manage, and what has held him back despite the talent he possessed.
 
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1970crow

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The only mistakes i recall him making are a couple of times finding himself completely out of position in the contest and it looked terrible..

but that was probably to be expected..
I reckon I saw 2 occasions early in the game where there was a ball in dispute and he just stood there instead of taking a couple of steps towards it and gaining possession himself or at least impacting the contest with his body. But I remember the days when Hartigan was hesitant to go when Talia was in the area. I just think it's something that comes with playing with the guys in that area. To me, if anyone is going to hang back from a contested ball it's the smaller player. Get the big body over the contest and try and get it to the more agile guy. Much better than the agile guy getting it to Billy standing still 2 metres away. Anyway, I'm sure the coaches are all over that.
 

Mutineer

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Tell that to Brisbane where he got 12 ground ball gets.

Sholl looks injured, and run down (which is fair enough, it's a long season and he plays a very taxing game), but the kid is going to be a stud outside midfielder long term. Would be absolutely stupid to trade him at this point in time. The goal to accrue talented players, not give them away because some nuffy doesn't get what an outside midfielder is.

All the game for Sholl is now is to find consistency. That he get 20+ disposals week in week out, and I'd also like him to find more marks, and more score involvements. Something Atkins never could manage, and what has held him back despite the talent he possessed.
I think you're getting a bit carried away with Sholl personally, he's a nice footballer and a neat user no doubt but teams have woken up to his laser boot and are putting the time in on him and so far he's finding that a fair bit tougher than his previous running around like an unregistered dog role with little pressure associated with that role.
 
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I think you're getting a bit carried away with Sholl personally, he's a nice footballer and a neat user no doubt but teams have woken up to his laser boot and are putting the time in on him and so far he's finding that a fair bit tougher than his previous running around like an unregistered dog role with little pressure associated with that role.
We're better having players the other teams don't care about?
 

StonesThrow

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Pretty similar team to round 1 (last week was closer). I think this is roughly the team that we'll go into 2022 with +- a few players

It's definitely been a big development year where we've moved 9 players into the 15-50 game mark. 15 games is a bit arbitrary, but I think by this point players at least have an understanding of the speed of AFL level. I think we can expect another rough year next year, but by the end of it we should have (hopefully) pushed 5 player over the 50 game mark (with a few not far behind).

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2023 is where we should start pushing for finals again, noting by that stage we may only have Sloane, Seedsman, Laird, Keays and Kelly (fingers crossed no) as our veterans. This may hold us back another year as it probably won't be a strong group of senior players.

By 2025 we will have a large group of players approaching 100 games (or passing it) at the same time. If we're not contending by then I will be very sad. Carlton sad.
 

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