Changes: Round 19 vs Collingwood

[ignoramus]

Second half of this week’s Notebook entry from the Shinboner is interesting:

Brisbane testing tweaks, a crack in Collingwood’s midfield: The Notebook, Round 18

There’s a focus on three of the top teams in this week’s Notebook entry.

theshinboner.com

Anyone recently rewatched the Collingwood game / remember how we played? Given we killed them on centre clearances, we've already found and exploited one crack in Collingwood’s midfield game. I’d be interested to know if it’s that the Suns learnt from us, rather than us now being able to learn from them.

 

[Perfect Purple]

I’m thinking that with the Pies’ three outs our game will go the same way the 2002 Olympic speed skating race went. Everyone fell over and Steve Bradbury skated past the body pile up to win Gold.

Our forwards will be clocking up the goals for a good win.

 

[Paracleet]

I felt like Jackson has been good in this area too so decided to have a quick check of this years stats.

Treacy 17 games 30 CM 86 Marks
Jackson 14 games 17 CM 45 Marks
Amiss 17 games 13 CM 58 Marks
Voss 13 games 10 CM 37 Marks

Not bad. I feel like these players nearly always have an opponent so marking uncontested is still usually getting away from them somehow. While slightly less games, from watching Voss does appear to be not as good in the air and can lose contests rather than bringing the ball to the ground. Treacy's marking did improve out of sight 18 months ago so there is hope yet.

Voss only has 7 contested marks.

 

[Docker82]

That's my point, they don't have a next best.

As others have said surely they have other tall players on their list. We just don't really know who they are yet.

Charlie Dean hasn't really been given the opportunities (largely due to injuries) to show us he's any good but he might be.

Frampton is their Oscar McDonald really. Nearly an AFL (so much so he played in a flag) but he's not best 22 quality at most teams.

 

[Purple Suit]

Voss only has 7 contested marks.

Sorry, my mistake. He has 10 career. Definitely a weakness of his.

 

[fleur]

I think I read recently there’s a group of players who’ve been getting together to practice marking and Voss was one of them? I can’t find anything about it but I think they’d given themselves a name

 

[go_the_dockers]

Sorry, my mistake. He has 10 career. Definitely a weakness of his.

Especially when getting the 3rd defender

 

[edward powlett]

As others have said surely they have other tall players on their list. We just don't really know who they are yet.

Charlie Dean hasn't really been given the opportunities (largely due to injuries) to show us he's any good but he might be.

Frampton is their Oscar McDonald really. Nearly an AFL (so much so he played in a flag) but he's not best 22 quality at most teams.

Only regular injury has prevented Omac from being first 22 at other clubs.You need to have a better look. There is a reason he has been picked obove Draper and other young defenders.

 

[Docker82]

Especially when getting the 3rd defender

On the flip side of the argument you’re trying to make, the third tall defender is quite often more attacking than no.1 and no.2 (not always).

I’d suggest he’s in less contested situation than Treacy and Amiss.

What are their stats btw? - I know what we all think a contested mark is but what is the actual definition of contested mark from a Champion Data perspective? Feel like it’d be just slightly different to what we think tbh.

 

[Docker82]

Only regular injury has prevented Omac from being first 22 at other clubs.You need to have a better look. There is a reason he has been picked obove Draper and other young defenders.

Draper on last years form gets picked ahead of him every time IMO. That clearly hasn’t happened this year.

Which decent clubs would McDonald get a game for? I agree he’d get a best 22 spot at most of the bottom six clubs but I’m not sure there’s any finals contender he gets a game.

 

[sumavich]

If he's playing well, he stays in. Omac has been playing well

 

[Docker82]

If he's playing well, he stays in. Omac has been playing well

Pearce is out this week. No one is suggesting McDonald is out this week.

FWIW having a guy that’d play for bottom six teams but not be best 22 at most other clubs is 100% better than most clubs can do for depth especially long term (i.e. multiple seasons). Genuine AFL standard KPDs being in reserves generally ends in a trade request at years end tbh - they’re in high demand.

 

[Taylor]

At Voss' stage of his career I want to see him "not losing" marking contests if he can't win them. I'd be content with him winning 15-20% of his contests if he then doesn't lose the other 80-85% of them. Always bring it down.

He needs to clunk more, but since he isn't I just want him to deny the marks against.

 

[Raz]

On the flip side of the argument you’re trying to make, the third tall defender is quite often more attacking than no.1 and no.2 (not always).

I’d suggest he’s in less contested situation than Treacy and Amiss.

What are their stats btw? - I know what we all think a contested mark is but what is the actual definition of contested mark from a Champion Data perspective? Feel like it’d be just slightly different to what we think tbh.

Contested Mark: When a player takes a mark under physical pressure of an opponent or in a pack.

 

[Retzlaff]

Can’t see Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Gavin Crosisca and Andrew Tranquilli having the legs to go with us this late in the season

 

[go_the_dockers]

If Young comes in and plays forward half the time as JL suggests, then does that push Voss out.

He plays as a 3rd tall when forward.

 

[freo84]

If Young comes in and plays forward half the time as JL suggests, then does that push Voss out.

He plays as a 3rd tall when forward.

Darcy rested? Go for speed through the midfield?

Not saying I want him rested but it could be what JLO is thinking?

 

[malpaso]

As others have said surely they have other tall players on their list. We just don't really know who they are yet.

Charlie Dean hasn't really been given the opportunities (largely due to injuries) to show us he's any good but he might be.

Frampton is their Oscar McDonald really. Nearly an AFL (so much so he played in a flag) but he's not best 22 quality at most teams.

They trained Reef McInnes to play back in the offseason given their lack of tall defenders and he suffered a season-ending injury.

 

[mattis117]

The Collingwood fans are definitely Co concerned because every second post is someone saying how they're a certainty to win. Definitely some anxiety over there lol. They keep having to repeat as a mantra how good their system is and how many times they've defeated Freo in the past.

It's a pretty disappointing read actually. No insight, just FWGJAU. Figure that one out.

 

[what a game]

I just want to point out this current freo team is playing a higher class of football at this point in the time than what they were in the first 6:8 weeks when we last met Tighter defense faster movement when possible. Plus there seems to be a belief in each other which led to what we saw against hawthorn. That aside what more does Freddy have to do for the people taking cheap shots at his worth to the team ? It’s happened all year. He’s kicked the same amount of goals as shai they are both having great seasons and are exciting to watch. Give a guy a break

 

[Stinky Lomax]

They defended so well last time we played them, that many inside 50’s & only 6 contested marks with 3 of them to Dudley. Hopefully we’ve gone to school because I’m sure a lot of the complaints would have been our slow ball movement but the most damming stat is we had 20-8 centre clearances & with the 6-6-6 rule, we have to better than we did on that occasion.

The other thing we need to do is take away their kicking game & slow them down. Control the corridor & the 45’s which they love & get them kicking down the line otherwise we’re in for a long day.

Both Daicos’s were pretty much controlled last game v us & Nick looked sore after last week. I’d work him over at stoppage without a tag, every time he goes near the ball he has to know what our intention is. I’d tag Josh, we don’t want him setting them up off half back & he will be confident after last weeks game.

Our forward half set up is going to be interesting. We lack that mid size forward that gives us greater balance but it’s hard to leave Voss out. Their smalls & mids tore us a new one last time, it would be nice if we could return the favour along with containing them.

 

[sumavich]

Frampton, Moore and Cameron were the big intercept marks last time. We’d bomb it in, and they’d mop it up. Bit like McLovin all over again. I reckon we learnt a bit about lowering the eyes, coz we is a lot better lately.
Reckon we’ll be in this game for a long time. May not win, but if we are challenging the Premiership faves on their home ground we are doing something right

 

[Docker82]

Contested Mark: When a player takes a mark under physical pressure of an opponent or in a pack.

My question was more around when the physical pressure has to be.

Swear I’ve seen players work there man off the ball ages before the ball comes in (not ages enough for a free kick) then mark unopposed. To me that’s a contested mark but I swear I’ve seen that happen and not seen contested mark stats change.

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

Frampton, Moore and Cameron were the big intercept marks last time. We’d bomb it in, and they’d mop it up. Bit like McLovin all over again. I reckon we learnt a bit about lowering the eyes, coz we is a lot better lately.
Reckon we’ll be in this game for a long time. May not win, but if we are challenging the Premiership faves on their home ground we are doing something right

We're usually very good at not conceding intercept marks (best in the league), but Collingwood touched us up in that area. 23 intercept marks (season avg is 12.6), 55 points conceded from turnover (season avg 41.8), 58 points conceded from fwd half (season avg 35.3).

Concerningly, last couple weeks teams are getting us from intercept marks. Sydney and Hawks each took 17 intercept marks, which is the most this season besides the Collingwood game. Has felt more like a ball use problem than an aerial competitiveness problem, but as always it's a bit of both. Big ball movers and/or contested ball winners like Ryan, Clark and Serong getting turnovers is one thing. Can't afford the likes of Chapman and Worner racking up turnovers.

Howe, Frampton and Houston are significant outs for their intercept game. But Moore and Cameron are the big ones and have touched us up last couple times. Fwds and rucks have to make everything hard for them. But if you use it poorly, you turn everyone into Jeremy McGovern.

 

[fleur]

The Collingwood fans are definitely Co concerned because every second post is someone saying how they're a certainty to win. Definitely some anxiety over there lol. They keep having to repeat as a mantra how good their system is and how many times they've defeated Freo in the past.

It's a pretty disappointing read actually. No insight, just FWGJAU. Figure that one out.

They’re top of the ladder