Preview Changes vs Melbourne

[Snarls Barkley]

B: Morris Roberts Cordy
HB: Biggs Wood Johannisen

R: Roughead Bontempelli Dahlhaus
C: Daniel Liberatore Macrae

HF: Wallis Cloke Hunter
F: Dickson T.Boyd Stringer

I: Williams McLean Jong Dale

Out: Adams (inj), Picken, MBoyd, Suckling, English (omitted)
In: Morris, Cordy, Liberatore, T.Boyd, Williams

If Morris isn't ready, Suckling to stay in.
If T.Boyd isn't ready and Gawn plays, Campbell. If Gawn doesn't play, Picken (or Suckling) to stay in.

 

[fronkalicious]

I absolutely hate our new strategy around contested footy. Just let the boys go at it like they did last year. We're constantly outnumbered at the footy this year.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

I absolutely hate our new strategy around contested footy. Just let the boys go at it like they did last year. We're constantly outnumbered at the footy this year.

Do you think it has something to do with the lack of mature bodies in the midfield?
Think about it the whole midfield group is young and not big bodied like most premiership teams.

Also add losing koby Stevens/Libba form

The gamestyle we play could be too taxing for the young players week in and out now

 

[TempleKelvington]

We played close to our best all year v the Saints in what was pretty intense pressure from them too for almost a half. The same effort against Sydney was not there. I'd keep the side much the same, bring in Boyd and Morris if fit. I don't think we should go wholesale changes this week and drop players off that one performance.

Jongs been ok for much if the year, ordinary last week so we call for his head. Cloke after a good start to the year got injured and has been in and out. Need tall to be played closer to goal, we seem to always be kicking to a small with the get out kick, so Cloke or Boyd/roughy one should always be deep.

If I am dropping anyone it's suckers. Yes point of difference, yes great kick when on, but when it's not in it's really bad and really hurts us. i think we might bring in another inside mid, we got smashed inside. Libber perhaps Honey?

Maybe 3 changes. One forced.

 

[SayerTheCreator]

I'm sure Suckling and Jong will stay in as they have a free pass for some reason this year.


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It's crazy isn't it!?

Suckling should have been dropped 4 times now. He is a genuine liability in the backline.

Seems like a bit of a coaches pet.

Jong has been ok this year except he's recently resorted back to his fumbling ways

 

[Mr. Walker]

Too hard to forecast the changes without knowing for sure the status of the injured guys. Cordy for Adams is a definite for me. If Morris and T. Boyd are fit I would bring them in for M Boyd and Cloke respectively. Then probably English out for Honeychurch. I think good form in the twos has to be rewarded. Would love to get Williams back in but don't think the MC will make more than 4 changes.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

More pace please, that side against Sydney put in Boyd and Roberts our two slowest players for Murphy and Williams. Honeychurch is one worth looking at for that reason.

Btw where is Clay ATM...

 

[Del165892]

More pace please, that side against Sydney put in Boyd and Roberts our two slowest players for Murphy and Williams. Honeychurch is one worth looking at for that reason.

Btw where is Clay ATM...

Calf injury according to the website

 

[Pugz89]

Not sure if a 10 day break is a good think in this instance tbh. In any case, want to see Williams back in for Moyd. Hopefully Toyd and Moz are a fair chance as well with Bront going out for Toyd and Moz being a like for like with Adams going out. Don't think bulk changes is the way to go right now.

 

[BulldogJake]

Out -

Adams: Injury

Jong: Simply not up to it. Fumbles way too much and when he manages to pick it up puts someone under pressure.

English: Not ready yet. Will be a great player in 2-3 years time but yep not ready.

M. Boyd: Looks cooked, got to put him back at VFL level. Williams shouldn't have been dropped in the first place.

In -

Morris: I presume straight back from injury?

Webb: Good clearance winner, was the most prolific in the VFL on Friday, and was stiff to be dropped in the first place. Also versatile.

T. Boyd: I also presume straight back from injury?

B. Williams: Probably shouldn't have been dropped in the first place, but was one of our best in VFL on Friday.

--------------------------------------

Lucky:

Cloke: Was absolutely useless on Thursday and shouldn't have been selected considering the weather. Only maintains his spot because Melbourne don't exactly have the best defence and we'll be under the roof.

Picken: Been close to unnoticeable for a while now. I have faith in him, so will hang on to him for another week.

Unlucky:

Honeychurch: Need pace which he has and is a consistent performer in VFL level for a while now. If Picken gets dropped in future I wouldn't be surprised so see him come in for him.

Cordy: Played well on Friday and is a good player to have up your sleeve to go down Forward. Will be back if structure needs it or perhaps if Hogan is named.

Don't be surprised if Libba gets selected as Bevo said he doesn't want to torment him. Wasn't bad on Friday, but also wasn't great. Need him back to his best.

Really need to win this game for more than the obvious reason. Side has been completely unsettled this season and need to start settling it with a few wins in a row.

 

[Doggy]

Gawn has declared he will probably play next week.

Of course

 

[fronkalicious]

Do you think it has something to do with the lack of mature bodies in the midfield?
Think about it the whole midfield group is young and not big bodied like most premiership teams.

Also add losing koby Stevens/Libba form

The gamestyle we play could be too taxing for the young players week in and out now

Not at all. Has been a defined plan from day 1 of pre-season. It hasn't worked.

 

[perro_loco]

Amuses me to see that after a single half decent game of effort libba is good to come back in. That sends a great message to the rest of the group, put in a half decent effort in 1 out of 3 games and get a recall.

Out: Cloke, Adams (inj), English, picken, Jong

In: toyd, Morris, Cordy, Webb, honeychurch

Libba to have another vfl game involving the same amount of effort as last night then look at him being in the mix, Webb and Honeychurch were much better than him last week and very similar to him this week.

I think you are right about setting a good example. The thing about Libba is that he brings presence and toughness to the side and that is probably why he might be selected over others. I think he would do well if he comes in. if he doesn't then there is something wrong.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

When talking about changes, instead of looking at what players played badly, I think we should be asking ourselves what's the style of play we are aiming to play and who can best achieve that.

Last year we won the flag on dominant ball winning ability (not just rank 1 for contested possessions, but like, top 5 since stats for them have kept since the late 80's), tactically, we played in such a way where we tried to get a +1 at the contest, as well as strong defence, where we smothered the opposition, so any given turnover we committed wouldn't be as destructive as other typical teams, and this would occur even with a weak-ish back six who worked well as a unit. All of this occurred without necessarily being an efficient or destructive ball movement team, for example, we would often switch the play and try and get meterage with the knowledge we would win the contest 60+% of the time when it hit the ground, as opposed to being a team that had agile players and long kicks and hit targets in space and went out and run (like an Adelaide). If we were good at that as well as the first two points (winning the ball and defending the ball), well, we would have dominated the competition and not been a team that was roughly equally as good as 6 others throughout the year and you could probably argue that 1/7 teams were equally deserving.

This year, however, whilst our defence has held up, and our ball movement, whilst not having gotten any better, certainly isn't worse, the reason that we've gone down a notch, is that our ball-winning ability has also gone down. We're something like 7th or 8th for contested possession, and worse again in clearances.

So what does all this got to do with team selection? It's relevant to the tactical path that we want to follow. I think that there's two options that we have to take:

1) Where we double-down on the same tactic that worked for us last year, and try to return to rank 1 contested possession
2) Accept that last year's contested ball winning was an outlier that is hard to replicate, and think that we need to improve our quality of ball movement, in particular after forcing turnovers, to win the flag (or at least make top 4). This ball movement isn't just a skill think (players who are good kicks), but also those who have good vision, decision making, and have the intuitive ability to find space in transition

Both paths have valid arguments, and no-one can be fundamentally wrong with what the correct or winning method is, because it's all open to interpretation that's different for everyone. But depending on which viewpoint we have, what we "should" try to do to return back to the top 4, influences team seleciton.

Because if you think it's the first point, certain players are going to get picked: Libba, Jong, Smith, M. Boyd (yes, for the argument of 20+ poss. ball winning as much as people say he's cooked, he still found plenty of the ball) etc. at the expense of players like Dale, Suckling, Williams and so on and so forth

If you think it's the second point, then we've got to pick players like Suckling, Williams, and it might sound extreme, but players like Declan Hamilton who is exactly that transition type player who will be good in our outside ball movement even if he can go missing at times.

So the question we should be asking is - with the players we have at our disposal, and what we know now, what's the right tactical path we should take to try and rise back up to the top 4 and have a stab at going back-to-back?

 

[The Inbetweener]

Nervous on this one. Dees are good at the contested ball and we have been ordinary.

reqlly need a lift from Roughead and Bont to rediscover some form

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I think we're gonna miss out on having Gawn play us by one week, thankfully. He would murder us.

 

[The Inbetweener]

I think we're gonna miss out on having Gawn play us by one week, thankfully. He would murder us.

He reckons he is a chance but yeah I agree, wouldnt think (hope) they wouldn't rush him back

 

[Yojimbo]

Jackson Macrae- 9 Kicks , 23 Handballs.
Luke Dahlhaus- 12 Kicks , 16 Handballs.
Caleb Daniel- 8 Kicks , 20 Handballs.

So total of 29 Kicks and 59 Handballs from 3 players who
no doubt would feature highly in the "Ching" votes for
the game against Sydney in wet conditions.

I don't care who comes in just give me a KICK to
HANDBALL ratio, all this tip tap handball is creating a
disconnect between the three zones.

 

[go you pups]

Jackson Macrae- 9 Kicks , 23 Handballs.
Luke Dahlhaus- 12 Kicks , 16 Handballs.
Caleb Daniel- 8 Kicks , 20 Handballs.

So total of 29 Kicks and 59 Handballs from 3 players who
no doubt would feature highly in the "Ching" votes for
the game against Sydney in wet conditions.

I don't care who comes in just give me a KICK to
HANDBALL ratio, all this tip tap handball is creating a
disconnect between the three zones.

Problem is we heavily rely on our half backs/rebounders and outside mids/high half forwards for ball movement to transition out of defence to delivering it inside 50, hence why our kick to handball ratio is poor as we try and run in numbers rather than kick the ball long and direct most of the time.

We rarely hit up at half forward and rarely have done so under Beveridge imo unless we play the possession game and someone runs wide into space on a wing/flank. The only players capable of hitting up regularly are out injured or playing out of position in the ruck in Tom Boyd and Bob Murphy.

Dickson, Picken, Cloke and Stringer are capable of it but they don't for one reason or another.

The best half of hit up forward footy I've seen recently from one of our players was Cordy against the Pies last year on that Friday night, was very pleased with what I saw from him, but it's not in Beveridge's style to play that way.

 

[Del165892]

Jackson Macrae- 9 Kicks , 23 Handballs.
Luke Dahlhaus- 12 Kicks , 16 Handballs.
Caleb Daniel- 8 Kicks , 20 Handballs.

So total of 29 Kicks and 59 Handballs from 3 players who
no doubt would feature highly in the "Ching" votes for
the game against Sydney in wet conditions.

I don't care who comes in just give me a KICK to
HANDBALL ratio, all this tip tap handball is creating a
disconnect between the three zones.

You do realise that we play a high handball game by design, right? The players are coached to play that way. It worked pretty well last year.

 

[BoydOHboyd]

IN Liam Jones.

 

[Yojimbo]

You do realise that we play a high handball game by design, right? The players are coached to play that way. It worked pretty well last year.

Just a quick reminder of our wonderful finals series for you
ScragCity, in terms of Kick to Handball ratio.

Elimination Final- 213 Kicks to 187 Handballs.

Semi Final- 203 Kicks to 194 Handballs.

Preliminary Final- 223 Kicks to 169 Handballs.

Grand Final- 210 Kicks to 172 Handballs.

Season Ratios. (2016)
Kicks above 200- 18 for 16 Wins and 2 Losses.
Kicks below 200- 8 for 3 Wins and 5 Losses.

More Kicks than Handballs- 20 for 16 Wins and 4 Losses.
More Handballs than Kicks- 6 for 3 Wins and 3 Losses.

The numbers don't lie ScragCity, they are manipulated
by evil men like me with no life.

 

[Yojimbo]

Problem is we heavily rely on our half backs/rebounders and outside mids/high half forwards for ball movement to transition out of defence to delivering it inside 50, hence why our kick to handball ratio is poor as we try and run in numbers rather than kick the ball long and direct most of the time.

We rarely hit up at half forward and rarely have done so under Beveridge imo unless we play the possession game and someone runs wide into space on a wing/flank. The only players capable of hitting up regularly are out injured or playing out of position in the ruck in Tom Boyd and Bob Murphy.

Dickson, Picken, Cloke and Stringer are capable of it but they don't for one reason or another.

The best half of hit up forward footy I've seen recently from one of our players was Cordy against the Pies last year on that Friday night, was very pleased with what I saw from him, but it's not in Beveridge's style to play that way.

You have managed to explain perfectly why with Robert Murphy
out they destroyed Jason Johannisen and in the process kept
us to a very low score. Well done and exactly why the players
who are trained to handball needed to Kick it to pick up the
slack.

 

[Doggy]

He reckons he is a chance but yeah I agree, wouldnt think (hope) they wouldn't rush him back

Will play

 

[Del165892]

Gawn will absolutely murder us. I have little expectation of us winning.