List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2022-->

[Anzacday]

Key dates attached so we know what’s going on when.

• Friday 30 September at 9.00am

• AFL Restricted Free Agency and Unrestricted Free Agency Period commences

Monday 03 October at 9.00am

• AFL Trade Period commences – Players & Selections

Friday 07 October at 5.00pm

• Close of AFL Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period.

Monday 10 October

• AFL Draft Nominations open (9am)
• AFL Restricted Free Agency Matching Offer 3 Day Period Ends (5pm)

Wednesday 12 October at 7.30pm

• AFL Trade Period closes – players and selections

Thursday 03 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) commences

Wednesday 09 November at 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) closes

Friday 11 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) commences

Tuesday 15 November by 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) closes
• AFL Trade Period closes – selections only

Monday 21 November by 3.00pm

• AFL Draft Nominations close

Monday 28 November at 7.10pm

• 2022 AFL Draft Round One (Venue TBC)
• Father/Son, Academy & NGA and Players Bidding opens.

Tuesday 29 November

• AFL Trade Period – selections only (5.45pm to 6.30pm)
• 2022 AFL National Draft Round two until completion (7pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period opens (10pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) commences (10pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period closes (11pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) closes (11pm)

Wednesday 30 November

• AFL Pre-Season Draft (3pm, online)
• AFL Rookie Draft (3.20pm, online)

Thursday 01 December by 4.00pm

• Final AFL Club List Lodgement

 

[jmac70]

I look forward to his hurried kicks out of the ruck turning it over into Nick daicos’s hands on the run off hb jmac. At the same time watching with joy at Melb supporters venting their frustration when he does it like we have

I truly hope that happens, but if he’s rucking against Cameron their mids will have a field day.

 

[Big Bryza]

Except we're not making waves.

Quite the opposite!

We've targeted an RFA.
A fringe player from GWS
A fringe player from Crows.

The waves are because we refuse to carry an absurd contract for 5 more years.

Like that fringe player we got from the Dogs last year.

I'll back in the list management team to give Fly n co the players they need for more success in 2023.

 

[Wearmouth]

Future 2nd for Hill
Talks of Grundy for a pick in the 20s
Henry for Pick 18 maybe

Feels like where going to be smoked.

We’ll be smoking Cuban’s…..

Did you enjoy this year. Let those doing their jobs, do them.

If they got what they got out of our list last year. Imagine what they’ll get out of it next year with another preseason under their belts.


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[Gone Critical]

I reckon you have that wrong. Frampton would be comfortably ahead of Kelly (who is ordinary and lucky to be on the list) and would be on par with Dean, with pre-season to sort them out.

Fair call. Your bracketed description of Kelly works equally for Framptons career to date. I dont have high hopes for either. Dean shows promise though. Youngest and best pedigree in the VFL/SANFL so would have him most likely

 

[BEEG]

We’ll be smoking Cuban’s…..

Did you enjoy this year. Let those doing their jobs, do them.

If they got what they got out of our list last year. Imagine what they’ll get out of it next year with another preseason under their belts.


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Lip I was huge on and always said he would be an amazing pick up.

Grundy should be pick in the teens 14-18

 

[Wearmouth]

you have a lot of faith in players who have done * all

Lucky you don’t get to choose. And the people in charge of our football department are.

Just enjoy watching the footy. You’ll be happier.


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[Big Bryza]

Stephenson was useless the year we traded him. Let's not forget he fell off a cliff after 2018 & 2019.

Reminds me of another bloke that we're shipping off to Casey.

 

[partypie]

plus take on his contract at 600k a year, so we give him extra years on the list to spread it out. Remember, he couldn’t make GC side and we are giving him a 3 or 4 year contract? It’s stupid

Bowes is willing to spread his out over 4 years reportedly, maybe 500k per year for 4 years? For that and pick 7 I know which way I'd be going.

 

[KJpie]

Jesus look at those guns, already has most of our list covered at 19. Majak Daw v2.0 comin through....

IIRC, Brad Scott stated Majak was one of the weakest players at Nth when he arrived even though his physique suggested otherwise.
Hopefully big Rou has a natural strength dynamic to go with his athletic abilities

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

It shows he's one of the few players capable of being AA quality. Something that McStay and even JDG has never been close to reaching.

We gave up our 2023 second rounder for Bobby Hill and reported to give up our 2023 3rd rounder for Frampton. Given how accurate the reports have been, it doesn't seem like GW is capable of negotiating anything better. These are draft picks in a much deeper draft when we have an abundance of 3rd round picks this year that we can't find a way to use.

Based on what I've seen of McStay this year, he's worth less than $300k p.a. and would be a regular in our Whipping Boy thread. He would be a role player like Cox and Madgen that would be on the verge of delisting every time he comes out of contract. Unfortunately he won't come out of contract for 5 years.

Hang on what.....
So you're saying you would prefer Grundy to JDG?
Because of easily the worst recognition award in the AFL...a semi peer voted award where its all about names?
FFS....a guy this year was suspended for 4 games (roughly 20% of the season) and still got in???? ok. What a great endorsement that award is. Lets reward thugs and ignore clean players....most pointless award in AFL....but i digress.

Can almost guarantee you its a rubbish award that has absolutely no significance on a players worth!!!

2023 3rd rounder....pick in the 40's. What chance of a good player there vs exposed form?

Why would we want more 18 year olds? 2 a year is enough. Trade and draft for early /mid 20's and your list is fine.
Take 1 in SSP and 1 in MSD and it will be very very rare that you'll need to take '5 picks' in the draft.


Times have changed.....draft picks are not worth players!

 

[3rdMan]

Lip I was huge on and always said he would be an amazing pick up.

Grundy should be pick in the teens 14-18

To say that so confidently you'd need to know the salary terms. None of us do, so we can only really guess.

Grundy missing most of the year doesn't help either. If he'd had a strong season, we'd have a better negotiationg position.

 

[Big Bryza]

I truly hope that happens, but if he’s rucking against Cameron their mids will have a field day.

Like the 2019 Prelim where BG dominated and the Giants mids had a field day?

 

[Wearmouth]

He will smash us.

He’ll need to put 2xAA batteries up his ar5e to enable him to jump. As he won’t get anywhere near it in the centre bounces against Cox. And then we can for a change shark his poor attempts to tap to himself.

I’ll be so looking forward to winning the first Kings Birthday game.


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[KinderSmock]

Thinking about the supposed "new" model of list building embraced by Geelong (and mocked by most until they won a flag). I don't see it becoming the norm. Clubs have always added aged top ups when they're in the window, but a full or near full rebuild is unlikely to work via trades and FA for most clubs.

What you'll end up with is what others have when trying. You can be competitive but will struggle to be the absolute best. Reasons: you almost always pay over to bring players from other teams. If you're not then you're taking a risk on old or injured players (eg. Hawks). Likelihood of success is low. The Cats had a few breaks go their way, and it's actually been some of the young players that have improved them. They also have lack of competition, whereas Melbourne clubs don't (look at the contracts Tigers had to offer).

The draft is still the cheapest and most sustainable way to build a list in my view. It's too difficult to build a star core without it.

Geelong went with a high-risk, high-reward model and it paid off. Can guarantee you that some side will repeat and fail.

We're going for a considered approach that targets needs at low-cost.

We've pocketed Bobby Hill for not much, will take Frampton for less, McStay comes in for free, Fiorini will come in for a net gain and Tom Mitchell is icing on the cake. Now some of those might be a bust but we're not selling our soul for it so that's okay. Is Pick 48 in the national draft really going to be used for the next star? Lippa and Kreuger last year were both good investments. With more experience, more development of Ginni and Daicos, Collingwood is a genuine flag chance in 2023.

 

[Wearmouth]

Stephenson was useless the year we traded him. Let's not forget he fell off a cliff after 2018 & 2019.

It’s not about what he has done subsequently. It’s about what he was worth. I’m happy we traded out Treloar, Phillips and Stephenson.


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[STAY SHARP]

Jason Horne-Francis will try to stay in Victoria. I have spoken to him recently and he loves Melbourne and does not want to leave. He hated North and they did not help him at all. The old players just did not care and the coaches didnt help either. Take what you want from this but its a fact.

 

[Wearmouth]

Lip I was huge on and always said he would be an amazing pick up.

Grundy should be pick in the teens 14-18

He will be worth what our football department need him to be.


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[ipswichpies]

HAHAHA

Begg is more ready than Faye.

Does not have his size though,I would watch this space on Faye he seems to me about the club and players quite a lot and I can see a bit in him who would have thought Jim Stynes would hold the record for most consecutive games not many I bet.

He is as big as Moyle and moves better I think I saw him working with Grundy at times last season.

 

[sr36]

The draft is still the cheapest and most sustainable way to build a list in my view. It's too difficult to build a star core without it.

I think it'll keep changing. I don't think there's a fixed draft is better or recruits are better. It all comes down how the two are respectively valued in the industry. Fair a fair while I think you've gotten better value for trading a pick after roughly pick 15 than you've gotten in the draft.

 

[magpies42]

If we were paying none of his contract, it'd be draft picks heading from us to them.

Yes and no, we are moving him because the strategy is that we want more cap space for other positions. They have clearly outlined it fits their strategy. There is no doubting Grundy’s value…albeit over paid per current performance. They will bank on him returning to his best…change often delivers that.

 

[unplugged]

Jason Horne-Francis will try to stay in Victoria. I have spoken to him recently and he loves Melbourne and does not want to leave. He hated North and they did not help him at all. The old players just did not care and the coaches didnt help either. Take what you want from this but its a fact.

What?

 

[JuniorB]

Cox only realistically has a year left. Two at best.

We just need to get Mason to 100 games then put him out to stud, so we have a bunch of 200+cm giants to draft as father/son/daughter picks in a couple of decades.

 

[Mick F]

I don't always agree with you, but i agree with you 100% on with this.
it was clear as day at the time. let alone a few months ago!

Not only was it a 7 year contract, but it was an extension on top of his existing deal.
So effectively an 8 year deal....Take that extra year off and our position to bargain is much stronger right now.

So many things wrong with this call......

Thankfully emotion isn't part of out trading & contract strategy anymore!

It bullshit and shouldn’t be allowed. I could sign up five superstars and put them all on multi year back ended deals. Retire to the Greek Islands in 3 years as a dual premiership President.

Creative accounting in business leads to bankruptcy and gaol. Using future picks and back ending contracts should be very very limited.

I have no problems with clubs terminating players, such as Grundy’s and Bowes’ employment contracts, but they should be paid what they are owed. Not this bullshit of paying it off on the ‘never never’, or asking another club to pay it off. We should pay Grundy what he is owed, if anything, plus the difference between the CFC future contract and MFCs - about $1.7m - when he walks out the door. If that doesn’t fit under the salary cap, we should pay the fine etc or retain him.

As for using draft picks, as currency to bribe another club to pay for your financial incompetence - well!!!

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

What?

He’s nominated Port Melbourne

 

[Ugene41]

Hang on what.....
So you're saying you would prefer Grundy to JDG?
Because of easily the worst recognition award in the AFL...a semi peer voted award where its all about names?
FFS....a guy this year was suspended for 4 games (roughly 20% of the season) and still got in???? ok. What a great endorsement that award is. Lets reward thugs and ignore clean players....most pointless award in AFL....but i digress.

Can almost guarantee you its a rubbish award that has absolutely no significance on a players worth!!!

2023 3rd rounder....pick in the 40's. What chance of a good player there vs exposed form?

Why would we want more 18 year olds? 2 a year is enough. Trade and draft for early /mid 20's and your list is fine.
Take 1 in SSP and 1 in MSD and it will be very very rare that you'll need to take '5 picks' in the draft.


Times have changed.....draft picks are not worth players!

If you don't rate AA as an award what about the Copeland? Where Grundy has won it twice and JDG has finished in the top 5... once. Yes I would prefer Grundy over an inconsistent

3rd rounders like McCreery, Murphy, J Daicos? What exposed form does Frampton have? He's played less than 30 games in 8 seasons.

We want more 18 year olds because you have the chance of getting a generational player. Draft picks not worth players? Name me a premiership side where the core star players weren't originally drafted in. You might be able to supplement with a star FA/trade but your core group of stars ultimately need to be drafted. Even Geelong that has topped up for so long, drafted their core group of Selwood, Hawkins, Stewart, SDK, Guthrie, Henry, Duncan, Blicavs.