Analysis Compare our 2011 team to current

[therubbernub]

Right now 2011 might be ahead of 2020. That team was a 5th to 8th type at it's peak. By the end of 21 the current team will have at least equalled it and by 22 lwill have left it behind. The current group is more talented as a group and is on the way to becoming a very cohesive and committed unit.

This team is already capable of pushing the top teams, something the 2011 group couldn't do with any great consistency.
I have a lot more confidence in the current team than I did in the 2011 version.

This is my feeling as well. On our day 2020 can beat anyone.
2011 struggled to take the next step against the big gun sides

 

[Arr0w]

I see it more to do with how much more improvement both squads had/have

While we don't have the likes of a Judd, 15th - 25th ranked player has greater upside

Recruiters were inept in identifying KPPs

 

[gab213]

I see it more to do with how much more improvement both squads had/have

While we don't have the likes of a Judd, 15th - 25th ranked player has greater upside

Recruiters were inept in identifying KPPs

There was a combination of ineptness and a lack of top end talent available to clubs like ours at the time thanks to draft concessions granted for the introduction of both gws and gcs. It was good for teams like Hawthorn who were set, bad for middling teams.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

This is my feeling as well. On our day 2020 can beat anyone.
2011 struggled to take the next step against the big gun sides

The top end sides back then were so much stronger then now though. Collingwood, Hawthorn and Geelong were incredible teams. There were also less sides back then so you tend to have less poor sides.


I remember in 2012 we were premiership favourites. That side was miles ahead of where we we are now. Our depth and spine now look like where we should have an edge over that side though.

 

[tarczonandjane]

I see it more to do with how much more improvement both squads had/have

While we don't have the likes of a Judd, 15th - 25th ranked player has greater upside

Recruiters were inept in identifying KPPs

I like the exercise, but I’m with you Arr0w. The better comparison would actually be with the 2008 side. Judd was in his first year, and we had three newly-minted number one picks up and about. Both sides were at the potential stage, whereas by 2011 the club was in a stage of consolidation.

 

[gab213]

The top end sides back then were so much stronger then now though. Collingwood, Hawthorn and Geelong were incredible teams. There were also less sides back then so you tend to have less poor sides.


I remember in 2012 we were premiership favourites. That side was miles ahead of where we we are now. Our depth and spine now look like where we should have an edge over that side though.

We were 'premiership favourites after round 5 or 6 copped a few injuries and won another half a dozen games or so for the rest of the season, it was not a great side. It had peaked, the current team isnt at its peak.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

We were 'premiership favourites after round 5 or 6 copped a few injuries and won another half a dozen games or so for the rest of the season, it was not a great side. It had peaked, the current team isnt at its peak.

Yeh I’m not suggesting our current side/list won’t accomplish more that why I said where we are at now. That 2011 side was bloody young though and really shouldn’t have needed much more to be true contenders.
outside of Scotland we probably thought everyone on that list had 4 years plus left in them. Atm we have 6 best 22 guys on the wrong side of 30 so that smashes the depth.
That was actually a lot younger side.

 

[T2B_]

View attachment 942668

This guy... unbelievable.

As much as I/we love Crippa, that man in the pic right there... still one of the best I've had the pleasure of witnessing. Rarely see a player who can just influence a game like he could through sheer willpower.

 

[BlueGum]

is there a way to select one or the other from the pairs of players?

I can't see a way to do that. Unless you ran it like Jeremias did for the GOAT-off, one head to head after another

 

[HBF]

View attachment 942668

This guy... unbelievable.

One of the all time greats, thats for sure.

 

[Juice030103]

i think the 2021 forward line will be the best forward line the carlton football club has ever had

 

[juzz88]

i think the 2021 forward line will be the best forward line the carlton football club has ever had

Big call, go back and look at the screenshot in the OP again.

Tex, Betts and Jeff virtually had 50 each. Unless I'm going dyslexic and misread the table, which is entirely possible.

 

[katmanblue]

No

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[therubbernub]

any suggestions for a changing of the pairings? i did it pretty quickly

 

[gbatman]

Team wasn't built properly in 2011. Full of holes patched up with ok players and a heavy reliance on it's top players, particularly Judd. Pretty ordinary key position players. That team had talent but the core was ordinary.

2020 side has good key position talent and a fairly reasonable core being built. Yes it has been too reliant on Cripps but that is starting to dissolve.

The current team has not reached the heights of the 2011 team yet but the 2011 team had no potential to improve. Players just didn't seem to have that killer instinct, fitness level or ability to bring in top talent via trades or by drafting. The club was a mess.

This side has most of the talent it needs but lacks maturity and fortunately it has room and ability to improve. This current list will blow the 2011 list away.

To put it simply the 2011 team wasn't built properly, it was built to fail. The 2020 team has been built really well, it's built to be a list capable of massive improvement and to be able to sustain success.

 

[Footscray Tech FC]

At the start of the 2012 season I felt like we had the quality needed to compete with the best, and a group of young talent that would take us to the next level.

I remember being absolutely devastated when I realised, walking home from the Crows game at Docklands in rd8, that Ratten's team was never going to see a premiership.

But looking back now, it's clear this team was obviously incredibly deficient. Splitting this list into 3 groups:

1) We had some undeniable cream at the top
Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Scotland, Walker, Yarran, Betts, Simpson

2) We then had a solid, although limited (by talent, injury or intellect), group who had respectable enough careers
Kreuzer, Waite, Jamison, Carrazzo, Curnow, Thouhy, Robinson, Thornton, Garlett, Laidler, Armfield

3) But the rest of the list were not AFL standard and, in many cases, straight up liabilities
Duigan (although I'm still really fond of him), Russell , Bower, Lucas, McClean, Watson, Warnock, Ellard, Joseph, Setanta , Hampson, White, Davies , etc.

I am not as convinced as others that this group would beat our 2021 lineup, although if they did we know it be on the shoulders of Judd. But that team was at the very peak of its potential, while our current group haven't begun to show what they are capable of.

Following the recent list changes, there are only a handful of guys I would currently put into category 3 (disclaimer: it is too early to say for sure, I believe a few could turn it around, and they don't quite reach the Marcus Davies

Marcus Davies

Age

33

Ht

188cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.9

2star

K

4.9

2star

HB

3.1

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

2.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.8

5star

level of liability). For me:
McGovern, LoB, Kennedy, Dow (all borderline), Newnes, Cottrell, Owies (I'll leave out others we haven't seen enough of).

I think we currently have a much bigger group in category 2, many of whom have much higher ceilings than the 2011/12 list and could push to be in category 1 in the next few years.

I genuinely believe this list is destined for success. I can't be wrong a second time, can I?

 

[Sin City]

Juddy really was something. Could win contested ball like Cripps, run his arse off for four quarters like Walsh and break away from the pack like Dangerfield but the biggest thing about him was he was a winner. Wanted it so badly that he’d carry the rest of the team on his back if he had to. Can’t wait for losing to be unacceptable at Carlton again. Walsh will be one of the ones that makes that happen but he’s still a boy.

 

[Brutalitops]

Me trying to figure out how to vote in the poll:

 

[Gethelred]

Team wasn't built properly in 2011. Full of holes patched up with ok players and a heavy reliance on it's top players, particularly Judd. Pretty ordinary key position players. That team had talent but the core was ordinary.

2020 side has good key position talent and a fairly reasonable core being built. Yes it has been too reliant on Cripps but that is starting to dissolve.

The current team has not reached the heights of the 2011 team yet but the 2011 team had no potential to improve. Players just didn't seem to have that killer instinct, fitness level or ability to bring in top talent via trades or by drafting. The club was a mess.

This side has most of the talent it needs but lacks maturity and fortunately it has room and ability to improve. This current list will blow the 2011 list away.

To put it simply the 2011 team wasn't built properly, it was built to fail. The 2020 team has been built really well, it's built to be a list capable of massive improvement and to be able to sustain success.

I don't know if I quite agree. There were some real intriguing possibilities in that 2011 team, and some pieces that - if applied in the right way - combined together to make scoring and attacking play suuuuper easy and effective. The problem wasn't necessarily defense, in that each of the pieces of the back 50 went okay, nor was it a general lack of conditioning; we ran plenty of sides down late in games, and for patches in which we would play the sides around us we would keep them to low totals. There were more than a few threads circa 2009-2012 discussing our defense and how effective it had been for x number of rounds.

I agree that our problem was a lack of depth, but not quite in the way that you mean. Our lack of KPF is well popularized, but that didn't stop us scoring; what stopped us scoring against the better sides was a lack of connection during transition plays - leading to high balls going to outnumbered mediums and smalls inside 50 - and a poor stoppage game when outnumbered. If you look at how St Kilda set up now under Ratts, you'll see that the only thing he's really learned is how to outnumber an opponent at the coalface; he sets up more or less the same way as we used to back then. And that game breaks right down when there's more numbers around the stoppage and it can't get broken free.

I'd say that, had we brought SOS or someone like Austin in in 2009, the situation changes significantly. We needed additional pieces certainly, but we really were not that far away had we not routinely destroyed our forward line by trading the players away for a pittance, and had we remodelled and gotten in a best practice injury and rehab/conditioning team then, instead of letting the club suffer injury crisis after injury crisis through the 2010's first.

Had we access to our full list in 2011, we'd have rolled WC over there that year, and that's no small thing. Had we been able to keep Waite and Henderson and Kreuzer and Jamo on the park, that'd be a titanic difference, and had players like McInnes come on and Laidler been perservered with and worked on, our side could've looked very different come 2015.

The need for a rebuild was only really due to Malthouse. We could've reset in minute, had he not ruined by process our ability to score.

Nuff navelgazing from me, though.

 

[Doro]

The need for a rebuild was only really due to Malthouse. We could've reset in minute, had he not ruined by process our ability to score.

Also the lack of any sort of competence from Rogers at the draft table.