Traded Dunstan to Melbourne

[St Plugger]

I call it evens. St Kilda gained Dean Kent

25

Dean Kent

Age

30

Ht

181cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.3

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

10.4

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.0

4star

G

1.2

5star

D

7.6

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.0

5star

G

0.6

3star

from Melbourne - a list clogger/depth player. Melbourne gained Dunstan, also a list clogger/depth player!!!

 

[gringo2011]

What part of Luke thought he was better than depth and therefore CHOSE not to stay on do you not understand? The judgement of our coach etc was obviously that he was not best 22.

At the end of the day, the only club that picked him up WAS for depth, so yes, our guys obviously did know what they were talking about, in that he is not a best 22 player - because not one other club wanted him as a starting mid.

From what he was saying it sounds like Ratts spelt out how he rated him. He was pissed off that other players getting regular games weren't held to the same standards. It happen, new coaches have different ideas about players. I still think that Crouch probably took his spot and there just wasn't going to be a need for 2 basic inside one position mids.

On SEN someone was saying clubs don't rate the uni position inside mids any more as everyone wants spread. I guess that's why guys like Constable can come in and play well and don't get chased heavily from outside. If you can't spread you have to be so good at contesting the ball that you weaponise it. Oliver is the prototype modern inside mid, gets first use, quick hands, good vision and can run all day. Hanners was probably the early version of the ideal modern mid. Most clubs have one pure inside mid but too many can make you slow and stagnant.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Thanks mate, Gresh is certainly a class act.

But our strategy seems to keep happening with our only trade so far is to swap out a higher pick for multiple lower ones.

This just shows our recruiters are not confident in picking the best talent available and favour the scatergun approach with the hope that they might get lucky with one.

It doesn't show that at all, it shows that our recruiters are aware what they need to get the NGA boys while still maximising the live picks we have at the draft.

 

[Crusty Undies]

From what he was saying it sounds like Ratts spelt out how he rated him. He was pissed off that other players getting regular games weren't held to the same standards. It happen, new coaches have different ideas about players. I still think that Crouch probably took his spot and there just wasn't going to be a need for 2 basic inside one position mids.

On SEN someone was saying clubs don't rate the uni position inside mids any more as everyone wants spread. I guess that's why guys like Constable can come in and play well and don't get chased heavily from outside. If you can't spread you have to be so good at contesting the ball that you weaponise it. Oliver is the prototype modern inside mid, gets first use, quick hands, good vision and can run all day. Hanners was probably the early version of the ideal modern mid. Most clubs have one pure inside mid but too many can make you slow and stagnant.

I have a feeling Dunny has been overstating how the coaches treated him, from everything else we've heard out of the club we have some of the most supportive coaching staff and one of the best club environments. I seriously doubt Ratts has on the side just casually been dropping shade at Luke every second team meeting or whatnot. Which other players are you referring too though? Hill? Crouch?

 

[Moral Decay]

I have a feeling Dunny has been overstating how the coaches treated him, from everything else we've heard out of the club we have some of the most supportive coaching staff and one of the best club environments. I seriously doubt Ratts has on the side just casually been dropping shade at Luke every second team meeting or whatnot. Which other players are you referring too though? Hill? Crouch?

From everything that has been said it seems most likely to me that the coach has told Luke what he has needed to do to be a regular in a new system. Luke can't or won't do it.

Under Richo we played an extra at every stoppage, the ball would be hacked forward with hope of creating another stoppage and so on. This game plan flattered Lule and Seb though Luke in particular with his lack of two way rumming and spread was deeply flattered.

Ratts comes in and the plan changes, Luke doesn't fit the plan, that's all. He's not victim. If he can't or won't follow coaches instructions theres no place for him and all the fantasies of leadership and bleeding rwb mean nothing.

Same with DMac and Hill, if you are following the team plan and do what you are told you get more leeway.

If l was an opposition coach l'd love Luke, play your best runner on him, let him have as much of the ball he can get and pressure the person he's trying to give the ball too because you'll get plenty of chances to exploit him.

 

[gringo2011]

I have a feeling Dunny has been overstating how the coaches treated him, from everything else we've heard out of the club we have some of the most supportive coaching staff and one of the best club environments. I seriously doubt Ratts has on the side just casually been dropping shade at Luke every second team meeting or whatnot. Which other players are you referring too though? Hill? Crouch?

Multiple people have heard that Ratts told him he wouldn't play again and that we were going to play Bytel ahead of him and it looks like the standards were different in Luke's opinion. He wouldn't be the first player on the outer that ends up hating his coach.

 

[Joffaboy]

Multiple people have heard that Ratts told him he wouldn't play again and that we were going to play Bytel ahead of him and it looks like the standards were different in Luke's opinion. He wouldn't be the first player on the outer that ends up hating his coach.

Exactly right. To be a good player you need to have an ego. That is a blessing and a curse, you think on one hand you are easily good enough to be in the team, but there are a whole bunch of ego's on a list which is healthy competition.
However, the coach has to corral these ego 's and make them play as a team. The ego needs to be tempered for the sake of the team. You play positions you aren't comfortable, you change your game for team rules.
You don't or can't do that, King ego, the coach, wins that battle 99 times out of a hundred.

 

[gringo2011]

From everything that has been said it seems most likely to me that the coach has told Luke what he has needed to do to be a regular in a new system. Luke can't or won't do it.

Under Richo we played an extra at every stoppage, the ball would be hacked forward with hope of creating another stoppage and so on. This game plan flattered Lule and Seb though Luke in particular with his lack of two way rumming and spread was deeply flattered.

Ratts comes in and the plan changes, Luke doesn't fit the plan, that's all. He's not victim. If he can't or won't follow coaches instructions theres no place for him and all the fantasies of leadership and bleeding rwb mean nothing.

Same with DMac and Hill, if you are following the team plan and do what you are told you get more leeway.

If l was an opposition coach l'd love Luke, play your best runner on him, let him have as much of the ball he can get and pressure the person he's trying to give the ball too because you'll get plenty of chances to exploit him.

I think we had a plan to lose Dunstan, Carlisle, Webster, DMac and those guys who were legacy high contract players not getting games out of the club to redistribute their wages. They all came good and were needed when injury hit but Dunstan had already been replaced by Crouch.

Dunstan would have been more likely to get us into finals next year, Bytel more likely to still be doing it in 5 years and on a lot less money. We are restructuring to chase Ben King and need cash and are trying to plan for keeping players like Coff and Clark when they start demanding more money.

 

[gringo2011]

Exactly right. To be a good player you need to have an ego. That is a blessing and a curse, you think on one hand you are easily good enough to be in the team, but there are a whole bunch of ego's on a list which is healthy competition.
However, the coach has to corral these ego 's and make them play as a team. The ego needs to be tempered for the sake of the team. You play positions you aren't comfortable, you change your game for team rules.
You don't or can't do that, King ego, the coach, wins that battle 99 times out of a hundred.

Also I'm sure everyone has had a boss or a workmate that hasn't rated you as highly as you think they should. It probably gets the best out of you but makes the environment pretty toxic. I got to know an ex player who didn't make it and the stress they are under knowing how small their window to succeed is makes it amplified.

This guy had been told that there were certain markers he had to meet to get games but he was a favourite of the previous coach and he was constantly having the goal posts moved in what he had to achieve to play. Towards the end he'd given up in frustration and knew that it was over but left with a very sour taste in his mouth. If you aren't in the main group it's a pretty s**t environment.

My mates nephew who played VFL but now playing country footy has mates in AFL one of his best mates is in that same spot now where he can't get games and it's actually put this guy off trying to have another crack at AFL by playing state leagues. The stress the fringe players are under is immense and not a happy time for young guys who should be enjoying their privileged time at the top level.

I reckon for Dunstan getting to Casey and having an ex coach who was a very positive advocate is worth more than anything. Having an environment that is supportive is probably his main aim now.

 

[Joffaboy]

I reckon for Dunstan getting to Casey and having an ex coach who was a very positive advocate is worth more than anything. Having an environment that is supportive is probably his main aim now.

And if he doesn't do what the head coach wants? How will be to blame then?

 

[gringo2011]

And if he doesn't do what the head coach wants? How will be to blame then?

I'm saying that if he's not in their plans they move the goal posts on him. He rightly or wrongly feels slighted, we are all just speculating at the moment but that would be my guess at what went down.

The coaches * stuff up just like players do. You won't find many players that were under Ross Lyon bagging him but the guys on the fringes probably all hate him.

 

[BrutThough]

You won't find many players that were under Ross Lyon bagging him but the guys on the fringes probably all hate him.

It's easier to blame the coach for not rating you than acknowledge you aren't as good as the players around you.

 

[gringo2011]

It's easier to blame the coach for not rating you than acknowledge you aren't as good as the players around you.

Sometimes it's not quality, it can be role players taking spots off guys who play a more attacking style etc.

 

[MordySaint]

It doesn't show that at all, it shows that our recruiters are aware what they need to get the NGA boys while still maximising the live picks we have at the draft.

That wasn't what I said. Can you give me an actual example where we have traded up in a current draft.... not a future draft

 

[Moral Decay]

I think we had a plan to lose Dunstan, Carlisle, Webster, DMac and those guys who were legacy high contract players not getting games out of the club to redistribute their wages. They all came good and were needed when injury hit but Dunstan had already been replaced by Crouch.

Dunstan would have been more likely to get us into finals next year, Bytel more likely to still be doing it in 5 years and on a lot less money. We are restructuring to chase Ben King and need cash and are trying to plan for keeping players like Coff and Clark when they start demanding more money.

Certainly agree about plans to move players on, also not pay overs to keep them, every player that has been told to test the market falls into that category, obviously Carlisle didn't come good, though DMac and Webster did, though more than anything our injury list has influenced selection the most. Guys got their chance and then performed or not. Was Coff and Luke the only 2 that got dropped for form reasons rather than injury or players returning from injury?

Our chances next year about making finals being improved with Luke in the team I'd disagree on. A fit Zack Jones or even a resurgent Hanners would have more positive influence, improvement in Clark, Bytel, Sinclair and Byrnes would all have a more positive influence, Luke would remain the last choice behind all of them and his playing at all would be the same as it was this year, a last resort, if he plays we're in a lot of trouble again.

 

[MordySaint]

Exactly right. To be a good player you need to have an ego. That is a blessing and a curse, you think on one hand you are easily good enough to be in the team, but there are a whole bunch of ego's on a list which is healthy competition.
However, the coach has to corral these ego 's and make them play as a team. The ego needs to be tempered for the sake of the team. You play positions you aren't comfortable, you change your game for team rules.
You don't or can't do that, King ego, the coach, wins that battle 99 times out of a hundred.

Sounds like you are describing Carlisle

 

[phantom13]

I was as critical as anyone of the double standard in how Ratts gave Hill some genuine kid gloves after a number of poor performances whilst dropping the likes of Bytel etc etc. But this feels like a very different situation.

In any event I cant understand Dunstans choice of club. If he wasnt getting a game with us i doubt he gets one behind Oliver and Viney as his direct comparisons (before you look at the rest of Melbournes mids).

Not to mention they cleary have a type, they have like 5 superstars then a bunch of bang average footballers with good pace. I like Luke and im happy he got to the club he wanted but i cant for the life of me understand his decision.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I was as critical as anyone of the double standard in how Ratts gave Hill some genuine kid gloves after a number of poor performances whilst dropping the likes of Bytel etc etc. But this feels like a very different situation.

In any event I cant understand Dunstans choice of club. If he wasnt getting a game with us i doubt he gets one behind Oliver and Viney as his direct comparisons (before you look at the rest of Melbournes mids).

Not to mention they cleary have a type, they have like 5 superstars then a bunch of bang average footballers with good pace. I like Luke and im happy he got to the club he wanted but i cant for the life of me understand his decision.

As far as i can gather his choices were:
Depth at Melbourne
Rookie list at Gold Coast
Remain at StKilda. ( 1 year deal ).

He must have really cracked the shits at the Saints.

 

[phantom13]

As far as i can gather his choices were:
Depth at Melbourne
Rookie list at Gold Coast
Remain at StKilda. ( 1 year deal ).

He must have really cracked the shits at the Saints.

Really?

Im suprised he didnt have some more options than that.

Assumed Adelaide would have taken him as well being an SA lad.

 

[Moral Decay]

Really?

Im suprised he didnt have some more options than that.

Assumed Adelaide would have taken him as well being an SA lad.

Adelaide could have picked him up last year as could any of the comp as we put him on the block with no takers.

In terms of Luke himself he's been open about wanting to be loved at a new team and Richo loved him, I think if Richo hadn't been at Melbourne then Luke would be waiting for the delisted fa period for GC to call him out.

 

[phantom13]

Adelaide could have picked him up last year as could any of the comp as we put him on the block with no takers.

In terms of Luke himself he's been open about wanting to be loved at a new team and Richo loved him, I think if Richo hadn't been at Melbourne then Luke would be waiting for the delisted fa period for GC to call him out.

His appeal last year probably wasnt as high as it was this year. Im taking it youre just doing some logic on who would have offered for him, not based on an inside info etc.?

 

[MordySaint]

I've taken a great interest in Dunstan's progression as a footballer.

• He came to us a talented footballer with genuine leadership qualities and experience
• Showed all of this in his first few seasons
• His progression then stalled
• I watched him put in some great pre-seasons. Looked extremely fit and had worked on his weaknesses
• I thought he might be a smokey for a Brownlow, then wasn't selected for round 1 on a few occasions
• Always excelled in VFL, but never rewarded with selection. Only recalled because of injured players
• Became stale with the leadership
• Was the scapegoat of poor team performances, the first to be dropped
• Was obviously read the riot act midway through last season. He then responded and turned our season around
• Then dropped after a couple of average games
• Ostracized from then club

A crying shame.

Good luck mate

 

[AirWinmar]

Really?

Im suprised he didnt have some more options than that.

Assumed Adelaide would have taken him as well being an SA lad.

I actually thought Carlton would pick him up. Playing his best suited role as a bottom of pack ball pig would help their midfield a lot I reckon.

 

[sammm]

I've taken a great interest in Dunstan's progression as a footballer.

• He came to us a talented footballer with genuine leadership qualities and experience
• Showed all of this in his first few seasons
• His progression then stalled
• I watched him put in some great pre-seasons. Looked extremely fit and had worked on his weaknesses
• I thought he might be a smokey for a Brownlow, then wasn't selected for round 1 on a few occasions
• Always excelled in VFL, but never rewarded with selection. Only recalled because of injured players
• Became stale with the leadership
• Was the scapegoat of poor team performances, the first to be dropped
• Was obviously read the riot act midway through last season. He then responded and turned our season around
• Then dropped after a couple of average games
• Ostracized from then club

A crying shame.

Good luck mate

I actually don't believe some of your thoughts on what you think occured.

grreat trainer obviously, didn't do great at VFL much until this season where he had to earn his job. before the pec injury he id pretty well at selection

 

[gringo2011]

Adelaide could have picked him up last year as could any of the comp as we put him on the block with no takers.

In terms of Luke himself he's been open about wanting to be loved at a new team and Richo loved him, I think if Richo hadn't been at Melbourne then Luke would be waiting for the delisted fa period for GC to call him out.

Adelaide are actually stacked for mids of his type and especially older ones. Port was a much more obvious one where they lost Rocky and Boak lost a bit or his edge...and SPP looking around. It looked a no brainer for a finals ready side.