EPL Matchday 12

[SM]

Liverpool have all the makings of a champion side.

What makes you say that?

 

[Papa Juggs]

The lid has blown right off now.

Bookies at $1.40 basically bolting in now.

As a Liverpool supporter much more cautious than that. We still have a lot of tough away games to play and have to balance Champions League.

As long as City is still winning games at home by 8-0 and we're not that GD puts the pressure on us to maintain a points lead at all costs.

 

[Lebbo73]

Clattenberg’s take.


Amusing that VAR and technicalities of the handball rule have become the major story coming out of this game.

The real story was that on the day Liverpool were more determined and decisive going forward, and more organised in defence than their opponent. The rest is just noise. Anyone who thinks Liverpool won this game because of VAR and refereeing decisions is delusional.

Look at that picture moomba . Both TAA and Aguero look like mirror images except for their kit and different body shapes, etc.

 

[ADL9798]

Look at that picture moomba . Both TAA and Aguero look like mirror images except for their kit and different body shapes, etc.
View attachment 777840

Bit uncalled for, I don’t think moomba has been unreasonable post-game.

 

[ADL9798]

 

[Magma]

it is in everyone's best interest for rules to be clarified. fans, managers, players, pundits all seem to not understand the rules. and now we have the same people who the technology was brought in for cos standards had slipped so far in control of making decisions though. i have no problem with that salah goal being given, he's onside. but to me, so was sterling, firmino, lundstram and others.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Look at that picture moomba . Both TAA and Aguero look like mirror images except for their kit and different body shapes, etc.
View attachment 777840

You can guarantee if that hit Aguero’s arm it would’ve been given a handball.

 

[Visions]

Yes it does mean it’s possible.

If it hits bernardos hand, unintentionally, and then missed TAA and went to Sterling it would have been called back for Bernardos handball because it was a goal scoring opportunity.

but because it didn’t do that, it hit TAA’s hand preventing that goal scoring opportunity, then it’s a penalty.

I would have thought that hitting TAA’s arm would have meant a golden goal scoring opportunity in the form of a penalty? Isn’t that what a penalty is? The pinnacle definition of a goal scoring opportunity?

Here’s another scenario for you. If the ball went off Silva’s arm direct to Aguero who was fouled in the area and penalty given, would it be overturned?

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Doubt they will but hoping the Premier League clarify the Bernardo Silva incident.

They've rightfully given more leeway to deflections and ricochets that cannon into a players arm from 30cm’s away


But according to everyone its seemingly overruled because of this rule of “Na na hit the hand”



Which doesn’t make sense to me.

Not a fan of the handball decisions against Laporte, Mane and Abraham this year but at least in those cases the ball has come in from distance and they’ve inadvertently hit their hand. At least they had half an opportunity to not touch the ball.

The Bernardo one has literally hit him from 30cm’s away. It just seems nonsensical that we have a rule in place that thinks that is the right call, especially when an identical thing happens at the defensive end and it is rightfully not given a handball (Sterling into TAA).

The handball rule was already over complicated, these new interpretations just make things so much harder to comprehend.

 

[bok_party]

Alexander-Arnold’s handball was a direct consequence of Silva’s handball. A penalty is a goal scoring opportunity and it would have been caused by Silva’s handball. So obviously it couldn’t be given.

I would have thought that hitting TAA’s arm would have meant a golden goal scoring opportunity in the form of a penalty? Isn’t that what a penalty is? The pinnacle definition of a goal scoring opportunity?

Here’s another scenario for you. If the ball went off Silva’s arm direct to Aguero who was fouled in the area and penalty given, would it be overturned?

Penalties generally only come about after someone has been denied a goal scoring opportunity.

If that happened it would have been considered a goal scoring opportunity, I believe but I guess that depends on Agueros body position too. If he had a chance to shoot then it would be a Liverpool free kick but if he was facing away then it’s not really a goal scoring opportunity so penalty would be given.

 

[Steven Gerrard]

I can't believe this handball issue is still an issue. The ball hit TAA's hand after it hit Bernado's arm. Put another way, if the ball does not hit Bernado's arm then it doesn't hit TAA's hand. Is Bernado's handball accidental? Yes. But so is TAA' s handball. What's the difference.? They're both guilty of it but Silva committed it first. Correct decision made.

Imagine the irony if a penalty was given because a handball resulted from the opposition's handball? Just crazy. Again correct decision made.

 

[BackOnOurPerch]

What a great opportunity for PGMOL to walk through the rules, explain the decision making process from the ref and VAR

Educate the football public.

Instead they spin a "his arm wasn't in an unnatural position" defence when every bit of evidence leading up to today shows that to be bollocks.

Mike Riley really shouldn't be keeping his job after this season.

Riley actually acknowledged before the season started that the new handball rule was open to interpretation wrt "unnatural position of hands and arms".

Surprisingly below is what Riley said back in July. As for the controversy in this game, I think we all agree that the second call for a penalty on TAA (despite Pep's histrionics) is in line with their guidelines. Any fair minded person would agree,i'd say.

As for the first penalty shout against TAA, the bolded statement may be more open to interpretation by the referee.
In this case Oliver deemed TAA was OK.

Did Oliver made the correct call under those guidelines?
Are these guidelines reasonable?



" Mike Riley insists that Premier League officials would need to be convinced that the defender made a deliberate movement with his hand before awarding a penalty:
“There are still areas of interpretation around the way the new handball has been written — effectively what you consider to be an unnatural position of hands and arms.
“In this country we have always said — and this is the players and managers saying it to us — that arms are part of the game and as long as you are not trying to extend your body to block a shot then there is more scope so that we don’t penalise."


“What we don’t want to create is a culture when defenders have to defend with their hands behind their back or where it is acceptable for attackers to try to drill the ball at their hand to win a penalty.
“We have worked to our guidelines for the last three or four seasons and by and large, people accept that’s the interpretation we apply and I don’t think that changes next season.”

 

[jod23]

Yeah, I do. Bernardo's wasn't a handball imo. Much like TAA's wasn't a handball late in the game when he handled it in the penalty area.

But it's hit Silva's arm first so it's a free kick for us. So how can it be a penalty?

 

[jod23]

Yes it does mean it’s possible.

If it hits bernardos hand, unintentionally, and then missed TAA and went to Sterling it would have been called back for Bernardos handball because it was a goal scoring opportunity.

but because it didn’t do that, it hit TAA’s hand preventing that goal scoring opportunity, then it’s a penalty.

But you're saying it hit Berbardos hand unintentionally but not mentioning the fact that it also hit TAA hand unintentionally.

Play on.

 

[jod23]

I don't get why were all talking about it too. Its not like Fabinhos goal which we scored right after the handball incident was the only goal of the game.

We won 3-1 and fully deserved to win and deserved the three points so who cares about the handball.

 

[bok_party]

But you're saying it hit Berbardos hand unintentionally but not mentioning the fact that it also hit TAA hand unintentionally.

Play on.

TAA had far more time and you can see him move his arm towards it.

 

[bok_party]

I don't get why were all talking about it too. Its not like Fabinhos goal which we scored right after the handball incident was the only goal of the game.

We won 3-1 and fully deserved to win and deserved the three points so who cares about the handball.

You do realise it changes the game? You would have been a goal down or 0-0 instead of 1-0. It changes the dynamic of the game.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

I don't get why were all talking about it too. Its not like Fabinhos goal which we scored right after the handball incident was the only goal of the game.

We won 3-1 and fully deserved to win and deserved the three points so who cares about the handball.

too much boring chat about handball and not enough melts in this thread unfortunately.

 

[Zidane98]

Just highlights what a poor rule it is.

Handball if it's the attacking team. Not handball if it's the defending team.

Handball if it leads to a goal or scoring opportunity, not handball if it leads to a free or penalty.

Handball if it touches Bernardos arm in the build up to a goal, not handball if it touches TAA's arm in the build up to a goal.

Ellery needs to go to the same retirement home as Riley.

I dont agree with the new rule. Why should there be a different rule for defenders and attackers. We copped it at OT due to that rule, Mane chested a ball and it brushed his arm on the way down. Went on to score. Last season goal, this season not. Change it back IMO.

 

[Steven Gerrard]

TAA had far more time and you can see him move his arm towards it.

Roll around in the grass, don't smoke it. The whole thing happened in the blink of an eye, the whole passage of play from the ball hitting Silva's arm to hitting TAA was a millisecond. Both players had eyes for the ball yet you're trying to say Silva isn't handball because he had .000005 of a second less than TAA to move his arm. If not for Silva's arm it doesn't hit TAA's hand.

 

[ADL9798]

 

[ADL9798]

 

[Lebbo73]

I dont agree with the new rule. Why should there be a different rule for defenders and attackers. We copped it at OT due to that rule, Mane chested a ball and it brushed his arm on the way down. Went on to score. Last season goal, this season not. Change it back IMO.

I’m not sure about that. Under its current interpretation it’s stopping the situation where the accidental handball is giving the attacking player an unfair advantage. Would’ve Mane scored and was it Aguero against Tottenham if it wasn’t for their hand/arm knocking the ball down to a position that suited the attacking play?

 

[kane249]

My query is why did Aguero focus more on appealing for the penalty than playing the ball. The ball landed at his feet but he ignored it to turn to the ref and Liverpool cleared the ball as a result.

 

[jod23]

You do realise it changes the game? You would have been a goal down or 0-0 instead of 1-0. It changes the dynamic of the game.

Of course it does. But every action changes everything. If a butterfly flaps it's wings in China and all that.

It just is what it is mate. We all move on.