Strategy Extra mature list spots for bottom teams

[Lore]

Did he upgrade before season Start , from memory during that time rookie need to be upgraded to play AFL games.

yes

 

[Aussie_boy]

Is this really going to make a difference? I don't mind the idea but I really can't see it benefiting the teams down the bottom.

 

[perplexed]

It needn't just apply to the bottom teams, though they are more likely to use those spaces.
At the moment the cap forces the bottom teams to overpay their mid tier players to meet the minimum. This can make it difficult to trade players out or acquire free agents. The change would give the weaker teams more flexibility in how they manage their lists.

 

[M Malice]

I like the idea of teams who have had an extended bad win/loss record having priority access to mature age talent.

However I hate the idea of them getting a PP and being forced to trade it for a few reasons-

1) Very unlikely that any elite talent would want to go to a club struggling down the bottom of the ladder.
2) Clubs would screw them at the trade table because they have the knowledge that they have to trade it.
3) What happens it they can not find a trade that they deem suitable and/or fair, do they just have to take an offer that sees them getting shafted at the trade table?

 

[Mofra]

The idea has merit, although Bulldogs fans wouldn't be happy if we miss out on drafting Hayes who we've developed at Footscray and has had a ripping year.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I'd take it if it were offered to the Lions. Mature age talent helps the club in the short term and can add experience and leadership. It's not like a rebuilding club should have any shortage of draft picks or youngsters with raw talent anyway.

 

[Snake_Baker]

It's a good idea for GC as I mentioned some time back, but Carlton don't deserve it.

The proposal is certainly better than priority draft picks.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Is this really going to make a difference? I don't mind the idea but I really can't see it benefiting the teams down the bottom.

It's picks up the slack between developing and AFL ready players, that can occur when clubs stuff up their list development.

Carlton, for example, has too many developing players playing senior footy at the moment, but of course, that's of their own doing.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

If this goes ahead and Carlton and GC (and maybe others) are granted the opportunity, would it be run like a draft, or like free agency and whichever team agrees to terms with the player gets them?

 

[Robertio]

The idea has merit, although Bulldogs fans wouldn't be happy if we miss out on drafting Hayes who we've developed at Footscray and has had a ripping year.

Could have happened anyway, should have picked him up last year.

 

[pinot]

Don't like the idea.

Tier one free agents can only sign for clubs that finished bottom 6 that year
Tier two free agents can only sign for clubs that finished bottom 12 that year
Tier three free agents can sign with anyone they wish.

Its the top end free agents going to top four clubs is the problem.

 

[Snake_Baker]

It will end up getting rorted and shelved anyway.

Rebuilding clubs will take the axe to their list to get in as much talented youth as possible in the knowledge they can get some mature free hits to correct the balance.

 

[Peel67skin]

The idea has merit, although Bulldogs fans wouldn't be happy if we miss out on drafting Hayes who we've developed at Footscray and has had a ripping year.

I think You still can draft him in ND draft like Tim Kelly or Flitsch . Mature age extra spots will only come before the Rookie draft where other club prefer other players (18-19 years old ) than them.

 

[Mofra]

I think You still can draft him in ND draft like Tim Kelly or Flitsch , the Mature age extra spots will only come before the Rookie draft where other club prefer other players than them, if I am not mistaken .

Ah cheers, was unsure of the order. So basically it's similar to the PSD that teams rarely utilize anymore?

Could have happened anyway, should have picked him up last year.

He was 'ok' at VFL level last year but we picked up Gowers last year after a solid year at Footscray, and he's set to win our goal-kicking award so has had a ripping year himself.

As an aside with our list profile I'd be happy to take a couple of mature agers as well. There are a few at VFL level that look set to get their chance.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

The idea has merit, although Bulldogs fans wouldn't be happy if we miss out on drafting Hayes who we've developed at Footscray and has had a ripping year.

I'd hope it happens after the national draft, to ensure all clubs have a chance at mature guys first.

EDIT - covered above.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Its the top end free agents going to top four clubs is the problem.

Kind of the point of free agency though. Determining which clubs a free agent can go to is not free agency and I expect would be heavily opposed by the AFLPA.

 

[TheKITC]

First chance at a Kelly/Fritsch/Lambert. I don’t think that’s particularly fair.

Just gives us an end of first PP, make it a condition we have to trade it, and be done.

Fraught with danger in doing things like this.

We saw what GWS were able to do in manipulating the Mini Draft system. Ended up stockpiling high draft choices at no cost instead of targeting mature players, as was the whole idea.

What for instance is to stop Carlton and GC swapping their PP ie. Carlton trade: Picks 19 and 65 for GC's Picks 20 and 50? If you add a player clause it could still end up Pick 19 and some rookie who agrees to play for GC for pick 20 and some rookie who wants to live in Vic? etc etc.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I like the idea of it, it will give the bottom clubs an immediate boost.

I am not sure what rules you put around it?

What age limits are there ? 22 plus??

Is it just reverse ladder order, or are previous seasons considered.

If Carlton add Kelly, Brisbane added ....... it would help these sides go up the ladder.

 

[TheKITC]

I like the idea that the first round of the draft stays pretty much untouched other than changes made by F/S selections and Academy players (despite what you think of academies, they are here to stay).

Giving poorly performed teams not only an extra list spot or two for mature talent seems like a great idea on a couple of levels. It isn't taking away the actual cream of the draft crop like we saw in the previous years of priority drafting (Hawthorn with Rough and Franklin, St. Kilda with Riewoldt and Koschitzke etc.) and it is encouraging them to add players who could play and impact at AFL level, while their drafted kids develop, that teams have had to/chosen to overlook for kids and the squeeze for list spots.

Think it would only work if team who have finished low for several years (say bottom 4 for three years straight) and that as teams climb higher, this additional list is trimmed back, for instance if you have a Supplementary List, if/when you finish;
14th-11th; you have 1 season to trim back one of your two supplementary listed players (SLP) or add them to your main list.
10th-9th; you automatically lose one of your two SLP that next season and need to make list changes accordingly.
8th or above; you automatically lose both of your two SLP that next season and need to make list changes accordingly.

- The first round can still be used by all teams for stand-out players who weren't selected in their draft year (Harry Taylors, Isaac Smiths).
- Supplementary picks can then be made by whatever clubs are granted them.
- The second round can still be used by all teams for stand-out players who weren't selected in their draft year (Tim Kellys, Blaine Boekhorsts )
- Supplementary picks can then be made by whatever clubs are granted them.
- Draft goes on as per usual

Thoughts?

 

[Stamos]

Could just move the Pre-Season Draft (which is hardly used anymore anyway) to before the National Draft.

 

[Snake Charmer]

I like the idea of it, it will give the bottom clubs an immediate boost.

I am not sure what rules you put around it?

What age limits are there ? 22 plus??

Is it just reverse ladder order, or are previous seasons considered.

If Carlton add Kelly, Brisbane added ....... it would help these sides go up the ladder.

I don't agree. For every Tim Kelly there is a Cam O'Shae around the corner. Drafting mature age guys is hit and miss.

 

[Peel67skin]

I don't agree. For every Tim Kelly there is a Cam O'Shae around the corner. Drafting mature age guys is hit and miss.

Just an extra list spots to cover for injuries and manage kids in their first two season , if misses they help club to develop kids in NEAFL,VFL , SANFL , WAFL rather than promote skinny kids if their body are not really ready for AFL yet .

 

[Suma Magic]

Carlton and Gold Coast have more than enough picks to recruit some mature talent if they want to.

If the AFL is so sure that it would help them improve then I'm sure they will do it on their own accord.

 

[Suma Magic]

What do all clubs who are potentially eligible for draft compo have in common? They have all had a lot of high draft picks, and they have more draft picks coming.

Gold Coast needs cash to help improve their club generally, and their footy department.

Carlton just needs time, and/or needs to accept responsibility for their own actions.

If the AFL just ruled out this type of support, then the bottom clubs wouldn't mind not getting it, as there wouldn't be a risk that other clubs would qualify for it later. But at the moment they want it because they expect other clubs to get it later on.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Just an extra list spots to cover for injuries and manage kids in their first two season , if misses they help club to develop kids in NEAFL,VFL , SANFL , WAFL rather than promote skinny kids if their body are not really ready for AFL yet .

but it just seems pointless....imagine Kelly, Fritsch or Ryan (as examples) on GCs list now. Realistically, how many extra games do GC win this year?

So instead of those 3 guys slotting in and playing roles for teams that are contending, they join a bottom 2 team and most likely sit behind the kids that GC picked ahead of them and want to get games into...