Fremantle vs. North Melbourne
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I think Suban will definitely play this year but probably not round one if everyone is fit - Hinkley did some nice things good evasive skills - was put under pressure a few times and got out of some tight situations - wasn't outstanding though..Van Berlo was good - on and off the ground a bit but had a crack and had some good overlapping runs going - he and Broughton were the best of the rookies I think.
It would be very hard on the midfield without having a legitimite ruckman. anyone got some stats on the game?
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His injury was in a tackle (not soft tissue or any weakness). Attacked the ball hard and got dumped into the turf. The guy has a lot of upside and showed it today. Most impressive player that was neither established nor a rookie.So Brock got injured...
He plays a couple of games then gets injured... there's a definite pattern developing. Not a good one either.
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Chris25
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Thanks for the reports. Sounds like there were some positives to come from this match.
I would like to see Tarrant play more on a wing, rather than deep in defence. But if he is playing a link role out of defence, and not a shut down role, than I think he could be quite good down there.
Suban sounded like he had a good game. And that's two games in a row, where O'Brien has done good things. Hopefully his injury isn't bad, because he could be the surprise packet this year.
I think Grover will, unfortunately, stay up forward until Campbell is back. Murphy just has no presence up forward, so until Kiwi is fit we need somebody strong up front. Perhaps next week Drum can play up forward? At least that way there will be a marking target.
I would like to see Tarrant play more on a wing, rather than deep in defence. But if he is playing a link role out of defence, and not a shut down role, than I think he could be quite good down there.
Suban sounded like he had a good game. And that's two games in a row, where O'Brien has done good things. Hopefully his injury isn't bad, because he could be the surprise packet this year.
I think Grover will, unfortunately, stay up forward until Campbell is back. Murphy just has no presence up forward, so until Kiwi is fit we need somebody strong up front. Perhaps next week Drum can play up forward? At least that way there will be a marking target.
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Gilmore is ****ed. Completely and utterly ****ed. One point he got the ball and I said "I bet he's going to kick it out on the full" but he went one better and kicked it in the man on the mark, which resulted in a goal. He also handballed right to a Kangaroos player, who kicked a goal. He is a disgrace. No Freo supporter should stick up for him, ever. I'll spew if they do.
The Grover/Taz experiment actually goes alright. Grover's a hard forward, and Taz is a smart back. Pav had a shit game. It makes more sense to have him up forward.
But other than that, we just looked smaller and less experienced.
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I think Grover still needs to go back.
I think we could manage Murph deep in the forward line - something like this:
Murph in the square
Resting ruckman off to his side deep in the pocket (Sandi / Kep)
Small forward in the pocket on the other side, but not as deep
Pav between the square and the 50
Mayne to his left (looking down the ground), but fmore up towards the 50
Taz to his right, but almost right on the 50, ready to make a quick lead
Grover back where he belongs. Kiwi mayhaps to take Murphy's spot when he's fit / if Murph remains a loser...
Happy for Gilmore to be left right out. He and Murphy could be very handy at Sowfs this year...
I think we could manage Murph deep in the forward line - something like this:
Murph in the square
Resting ruckman off to his side deep in the pocket (Sandi / Kep)
Small forward in the pocket on the other side, but not as deep
Pav between the square and the 50
Mayne to his left (looking down the ground), but fmore up towards the 50
Taz to his right, but almost right on the 50, ready to make a quick lead
Grover back where he belongs. Kiwi mayhaps to take Murphy's spot when he's fit / if Murph remains a loser...
Happy for Gilmore to be left right out. He and Murphy could be very handy at Sowfs this year...
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Apologies for the poor spelling in my earlier post. Am still trying to calm down after reading the rubbish from Steve Butler of the West - and what is worse is AAP have now picked it up and it is the "official match account"!!!
ACTDocker - great post, agree with most of what you said, except for your comments on Hase, Hinkley, Gilmore and Drum - Drum tried hard but Petrie just killed him.
Hinkley had a poor game - his disposal was "sub-optimal", and he really didn't keep pace with the faster Roos. Also, he didn't have the presence you'd expect of someone with a few seasons under his belt - for example, Suban and Ruffles seemed to have much more confidence and presence.
On Hase - yes, each time he came to the bench, he had some ice on his knee when he was first sitting down, but it was soon removed - and frankly, the Freo trainers were putting iced towels and iceblocks on anything that moved (I nearly got one just 'cause I was sitting by the dugout in purple!!)
As to Hase's game, I thought (but I could be wrong) that he was actually really effective when he was able to get to the ball - he played in defence for most of the game, and Laidley seemed to be instructing the Roos players to run Hase away from the play. He is slower and less agile than 2006, but I still thought he was good value.
Suban - he is clearly better developed in the upper body than all of the other youngsters, and is bigger than Rhys (I'd be interested in how he compares to Balla or Browne). Hall and Clarke are clearly still "schoolkids", if you know what I mean - Hally looks about 12 years old.
Suban didn't get much help from the more experienced players he was playing near - mainly Peake, Murphy, Gilmore and Drum. They just left him to his own devices, and didn't tell him what to do or give him a heads up when he was under pressure.
In the last ten minutes of the final quarter, they put Grover back to FB, and Suban had a new lease on life - with encouragement and direction from the purple muppett (Grover) he had much less doubt about what to do. He’s my tip, with Brock, as the player to watch from today. He seems smart, and just needs a couple of older players talking to him to help his confidence and positioning in play. We hardly used him today, but that isn’t his fault.
On Son-Son (Walters) - he started quite well (strong bursts of pace and ran around his opponents to lead for the ball), but the Freo midfielders just ignored him. However, by about the 5 minute mark of the second quarter Laidley seemed to have worked him out - he instructed each defender playing on Son-Son (they used a rotation) to run off at every opportunity - with the result that Son-Son spent ages running around half-back flank/back pocket, largely trying to cover his man. Harvs didn't play him much in the second half, and he tired noticeably when he came on in the fourth quarter. I think he needs a year or two before he’s up to AFL. But what would I know??
On Pav - his worst game for ages - first time I've ever seen him drop his bundle and focus more on an umpire than on the play. The umps were bad, but he lost it completely - almost Fev-like.
As to Gilmore – I don’t know who named him as in the best – I thought he was very ordinary for most of it. He did run on the wing well when not under pressure, but his ruckwork was very ordinary, and he didn’t man up.
Also, when pressure was applied, he turned the ball over – and (most importantly for me) he didn’t talk to or help out the younger guys with their positioning or tactics. He’d be in the 6 worst for mine.
Rgauci – Grover was FF for all but the last ten minutes. Dropped a couple of easy ones, but actually created for our smaller guys – a couple of nice tap downs and knock-ons. Pav was largely CHB/midfield in the second quarter, and then seemed to spend lage parts of the third and fourth in FF. Didn’t matter where he was though, he just didn’t seem interested in anything except arguing with the ump.
Still trying to recover pictures from my smashed camera - will then have to sort out a host to post pics...
Once I've sorted that out, I will post a more detailed rundown on rotations, tactics and matchups later tonight.
And yes, there was a "Warwick Capper" at the game - but at least 130 kgs, and only 5' 6'' - with really bad highlights in his hair, and a huge beer gut (bugger than his mullet!!)..
Gravy - Grover dropped two easy marks, but he wasn't anywhere near as bad as you say, and he didn't kick into the man on the mark - the ump let the man on the mark run over the mark by 2 metres. Of our experienced players, he was the only one talking to the kids, encouraging them and telling them what to do and where to go. I understand you don't like him, but please try to be balanced?? You give all of us Dockers supporters in Canberra a bad name.
IP - been viewing since early 2002, but only posted once before, when Belly retired - largely due to work-related restrictions on my freedom to log-in and post on internet forums. I also worry that I can't contribute much 'cause you guys like short and sharp instead of my style. This place sure has "evolved" since I first started lurking - I miss Bushie and Stronz, but am pleased with the absence of some others - though I'm sure they'll be back soon enough...
ACTDocker - great post, agree with most of what you said, except for your comments on Hase, Hinkley, Gilmore and Drum - Drum tried hard but Petrie just killed him.
Hinkley had a poor game - his disposal was "sub-optimal", and he really didn't keep pace with the faster Roos. Also, he didn't have the presence you'd expect of someone with a few seasons under his belt - for example, Suban and Ruffles seemed to have much more confidence and presence.
On Hase - yes, each time he came to the bench, he had some ice on his knee when he was first sitting down, but it was soon removed - and frankly, the Freo trainers were putting iced towels and iceblocks on anything that moved (I nearly got one just 'cause I was sitting by the dugout in purple!!)
As to Hase's game, I thought (but I could be wrong) that he was actually really effective when he was able to get to the ball - he played in defence for most of the game, and Laidley seemed to be instructing the Roos players to run Hase away from the play. He is slower and less agile than 2006, but I still thought he was good value.
Suban - he is clearly better developed in the upper body than all of the other youngsters, and is bigger than Rhys (I'd be interested in how he compares to Balla or Browne). Hall and Clarke are clearly still "schoolkids", if you know what I mean - Hally looks about 12 years old.
Suban didn't get much help from the more experienced players he was playing near - mainly Peake, Murphy, Gilmore and Drum. They just left him to his own devices, and didn't tell him what to do or give him a heads up when he was under pressure.
In the last ten minutes of the final quarter, they put Grover back to FB, and Suban had a new lease on life - with encouragement and direction from the purple muppett (Grover) he had much less doubt about what to do. He’s my tip, with Brock, as the player to watch from today. He seems smart, and just needs a couple of older players talking to him to help his confidence and positioning in play. We hardly used him today, but that isn’t his fault.
On Son-Son (Walters) - he started quite well (strong bursts of pace and ran around his opponents to lead for the ball), but the Freo midfielders just ignored him. However, by about the 5 minute mark of the second quarter Laidley seemed to have worked him out - he instructed each defender playing on Son-Son (they used a rotation) to run off at every opportunity - with the result that Son-Son spent ages running around half-back flank/back pocket, largely trying to cover his man. Harvs didn't play him much in the second half, and he tired noticeably when he came on in the fourth quarter. I think he needs a year or two before he’s up to AFL. But what would I know??
On Pav - his worst game for ages - first time I've ever seen him drop his bundle and focus more on an umpire than on the play. The umps were bad, but he lost it completely - almost Fev-like.
As to Gilmore – I don’t know who named him as in the best – I thought he was very ordinary for most of it. He did run on the wing well when not under pressure, but his ruckwork was very ordinary, and he didn’t man up.
Also, when pressure was applied, he turned the ball over – and (most importantly for me) he didn’t talk to or help out the younger guys with their positioning or tactics. He’d be in the 6 worst for mine.
Rgauci – Grover was FF for all but the last ten minutes. Dropped a couple of easy ones, but actually created for our smaller guys – a couple of nice tap downs and knock-ons. Pav was largely CHB/midfield in the second quarter, and then seemed to spend lage parts of the third and fourth in FF. Didn’t matter where he was though, he just didn’t seem interested in anything except arguing with the ump.
Still trying to recover pictures from my smashed camera - will then have to sort out a host to post pics...
Once I've sorted that out, I will post a more detailed rundown on rotations, tactics and matchups later tonight.
And yes, there was a "Warwick Capper" at the game - but at least 130 kgs, and only 5' 6'' - with really bad highlights in his hair, and a huge beer gut (bugger than his mullet!!)..
Gravy - Grover dropped two easy marks, but he wasn't anywhere near as bad as you say, and he didn't kick into the man on the mark - the ump let the man on the mark run over the mark by 2 metres. Of our experienced players, he was the only one talking to the kids, encouraging them and telling them what to do and where to go. I understand you don't like him, but please try to be balanced?? You give all of us Dockers supporters in Canberra a bad name.
IP - been viewing since early 2002, but only posted once before, when Belly retired - largely due to work-related restrictions on my freedom to log-in and post on internet forums. I also worry that I can't contribute much 'cause you guys like short and sharp instead of my style. This place sure has "evolved" since I first started lurking - I miss Bushie and Stronz, but am pleased with the absence of some others - though I'm sure they'll be back soon enough...
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yeah thanks for that. Worrying that the senior players didn't talk much to the young guys. One of the things I have noticed at training this summer is the talk and the camaraderie... if that is missing then IMO it does not bode well. With so many young fellas, they need the senior blokes to be talking and encouraging at all times...
Very un-Pav-like, the arguing with the umpire... especially to the detriment of his own standards... he does have a crack now and again, but never have I seen him let it get on top of him.
And I think gravy was referring to Gilmore kicking into the man on the mark, not Groves...
But thanks for the more detailed report. Good luck with your camera - will look forward to seeing some pics.
Very un-Pav-like, the arguing with the umpire... especially to the detriment of his own standards... he does have a crack now and again, but never have I seen him let it get on top of him.
And I think gravy was referring to Gilmore kicking into the man on the mark, not Groves...
But thanks for the more detailed report. Good luck with your camera - will look forward to seeing some pics.
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Excellent report, thanks so much.
We picked up Hinkley in the 2007 draft so really he has only been with us for 1 season and was quite small when we got him. I am hoping he's gonna be a gem for us.
Not suprising that Suban didn't get much help from the bolded players...they seemed to be mentioned quite alot on the forums in regards to stepping up, improving etc. Time to go....GILLY.
And lastly, I'm actually relieved to hear about Grover heading back in the last 10 minutes....to me (hopefully) that means the experiment is over... OVER... We need our hairy guerilla in the BACKLINE HARVES!!!!
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ok...now I've settled down a bit I'm not so upset.
Yes we lost and the margin was a huge one. But when you look at the circumstances, you cannot seriously say we will be crap in the year to come.
Pav's first competitive hitout for the year (not counting intra) and of course he is gonna be rusty. It was hot, and he sounded bothered. As you said IP, not like pav at all. But he didnt have a host of senior players to help out either.
Grover at FF
Tarrant down back.
Hase is still getting back into the swing of things.
No Shammer and Mundy - our two biggest clearance machines
No Sandilands - our AA ruckman who wins more often than not against other ruckmen.
No Kep - He's our back up ruck and the midfield have worked with him more than either Gilmore or Zach
NO HAYDEN- He's our saviour down back
No McPHARLIN - see above
Numerous inexperienced players to boot and im sure i've missed others...
Last but not least... FEBRUARY PEOPLE...it's the pre-season.....thank God.
Yes we lost and the margin was a huge one. But when you look at the circumstances, you cannot seriously say we will be crap in the year to come.
Pav's first competitive hitout for the year (not counting intra) and of course he is gonna be rusty. It was hot, and he sounded bothered. As you said IP, not like pav at all. But he didnt have a host of senior players to help out either.
Grover at FF
Tarrant down back.
Hase is still getting back into the swing of things.
No Shammer and Mundy - our two biggest clearance machines
No Sandilands - our AA ruckman who wins more often than not against other ruckmen.
No Kep - He's our back up ruck and the midfield have worked with him more than either Gilmore or Zach
NO HAYDEN- He's our saviour down back
No McPHARLIN - see above
Numerous inexperienced players to boot and im sure i've missed others...
Last but not least... FEBRUARY PEOPLE...it's the pre-season.....thank God.
BeinPurplenGreen
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Gravy - my apologies, I now realise (thanks to IP's help) that you were talking about Gilmore not Grover. I am sorry, I do agree with all of your comments - especially about Gilmore.
My response was actually one I had ready to deal with comments I expected from Canberraslackworker, who hates my gts, but I hit reply too soon - and so you copped it. I'm really sorry - and, despite my post, you don't give Canberra Dockers supporters a bad name.
Feel free to give me a red for my incompetence (see IP, I told you i wasn't good enough for this place).
My response was actually one I had ready to deal with comments I expected from Canberraslackworker, who hates my gts, but I hit reply too soon - and so you copped it. I'm really sorry - and, despite my post, you don't give Canberra Dockers supporters a bad name.
Feel free to give me a red for my incompetence (see IP, I told you i wasn't good enough for this place).
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Quite the laugh.
Too crowded and too tall.I think Grover still needs to go back.
I think we could manage Murph deep in the forward line - something like this:
Murph in the square
Resting ruckman off to his side deep in the pocket (Sandi / Kep)
Small forward in the pocket on the other side, but not as deep
Pav between the square and the 50
Mayne to his left (looking down the ground), but fmore up towards the 50
Taz to his right, but almost right on the 50, ready to make a quick lead
Grover back where he belongs. Kiwi mayhaps to take Murphy's spot when he's fit / if Murph remains a loser...
Happy for Gilmore to be left right out. He and Murphy could be very handy at Sowfs this year...
If you are going to have Pav and Taz playing forward at the same time, you can only really have one of Mayne, Solly, Murphy and Campbell there etc at a time.
Would much rather it be:
Balla Pav Kep/ Pav
Mayne/ Ruffles/ Hall etc Tarrant
With Mayne or Solly pushing up.
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Thanks for the reports guys. I'm actually surprised with how many match reports we have got, thought we'd have to rely on Hagdorn and co.
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Not a heck of a lot of +ve's by the sounds of it all. Don't really care about the outcome, but I am with IP about getting pantsed by 100pts. that is never good.
Don't understand the Taz at FB thing. We have options down there, why put Taz there? Bizzare IMHO.
And to Pav, his first hit-out of the season, so I guess he is allowed to blow out the cobwebs, but pleeeeeze put him back in the forward line where he belongs. He is easily one of the best 4 or 5 forwards in the competition, he can't be used too much in the middle.
Don't understand the Taz at FB thing. We have options down there, why put Taz there? Bizzare IMHO.
And to Pav, his first hit-out of the season, so I guess he is allowed to blow out the cobwebs, but pleeeeeze put him back in the forward line where he belongs. He is easily one of the best 4 or 5 forwards in the competition, he can't be used too much in the middle.
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Kip,
Don't know where you are getting these other 4 from.
Easily the best multi-dimensional forward in the game.
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I would be leaning to not a concern, was 32+ degrees and its only his second competitive game back from knee reco so probably just rested early to lessen the stress.
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So why do I keep reading that Grover is not big enough to be a full-back and someone is needed to play on the gorilla forwards?
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Thanks for the reports guys - especially BeinPurplenGreen's comprehensive write-up. Now you see why I don't trust the mainstream media's reports of these matches - with Gilmore being named one of the BOGs and all that shit.
My heart sank when I saw we'd copped a 100 point flogging but I've gotta say I'm not feeling quite so bad now I've read this thread. Heaps of experimenting + heaps of rookies = result not that important.
What it does do is give us a pretty sobering glimpse into what we might be up against if we cop a few injuries this year. I don't think this changes expectations all that much - if we can keep our best team on the park we'll be ok, but if we have to rely on our depth later this year we're going to struggle.
My heart sank when I saw we'd copped a 100 point flogging but I've gotta say I'm not feeling quite so bad now I've read this thread. Heaps of experimenting + heaps of rookies = result not that important.
What it does do is give us a pretty sobering glimpse into what we might be up against if we cop a few injuries this year. I don't think this changes expectations all that much - if we can keep our best team on the park we'll be ok, but if we have to rely on our depth later this year we're going to struggle.
shibz_1989
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LOL I saw Gilmore being named as BOG, as yeah, wasn't sure with all that is being written...so was he good? Or was he crap? (From what Gravy said, he was shit...)
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Didn't we also lose by 100 points to Port in some semi-rural/suburban ground in Adelaide in 40+ degree heat last year? Or was it the year before?
Anyway... Although it's obviously better to win than lose, I reckon these praccy games aren't the best guage to see where you're at. Each team is trying different things and each team is trying to achieve different things.
At least in the "proper" NAB cup games, both teams are relatively doing the same thing. But in these meaningless scratchies you're just practicing match-ups and set-ups and trying different things.
I suspect North Melb might now have a "rest" next week, and I reckon we'll be treating the Bunbury game as our big "serious" dress rehearsal for the season opener.
And yeah, send Pav back to the bloody forward line!
And I reckon this Grover forward thing is a bit suss too. Let him use the pre-season to get a bit of experience and practice as a forward, but when the Doggies come over in R1, I hope that Groves is back where he belongs in defence. (And vice verca for Taz.)
Anyway... Although it's obviously better to win than lose, I reckon these praccy games aren't the best guage to see where you're at. Each team is trying different things and each team is trying to achieve different things.
At least in the "proper" NAB cup games, both teams are relatively doing the same thing. But in these meaningless scratchies you're just practicing match-ups and set-ups and trying different things.
I suspect North Melb might now have a "rest" next week, and I reckon we'll be treating the Bunbury game as our big "serious" dress rehearsal for the season opener.
And yeah, send Pav back to the bloody forward line!
And I reckon this Grover forward thing is a bit suss too. Let him use the pre-season to get a bit of experience and practice as a forward, but when the Doggies come over in R1, I hope that Groves is back where he belongs in defence. (And vice verca for Taz.)
tazaa
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I belive one poster wanted to know who North was missing.
From what i know i believe Rawlings, Harris, Jones, Edwards, Harvey, Pratt, Hale and maybe Harding werent playing.
Good luck in 09
From what i know i believe Rawlings, Harris, Jones, Edwards, Harvey, Pratt, Hale and maybe Harding werent playing.
Good luck in 09
