Freo v WC draft comparisons 2000-07

[Patty_Moz]

I should be studying for my exams next week so instead I compiled a list of Freo and WC players that were taken in the drafting periods from 2000-2007 which I feel is before our rebuild started. I did this because I am a firm believer this is why Freo are in such a poor state atm and there are no quick solutions but to draft strongly for the next decade, simply we start from scratch 2008 onwards. I chose WC cos they are doing very well atm but could draw up similar lists for Geelong (their build starts a bit earlier), Carlton/Hawks or Richmond (which starts later still but before us).

Players still on lists picked prior to 2000:
Freo: (2) Pavlich, Grover
WC: (2) Glass, Embley

Top 30 draft picks that are still on list:
Freo: (2) Mundy, Ibbotson
WC: (9) Kerr, Waters, Butler, Rosa, Hurn, Brown, Mckenzie, Masten, S. Selwood

Other picks later in the draft still on list:
Freo: (1) Mayne, (McPhee was pick 39 in 2000 but was traded then picked again in the 2010 PSD, therefore after 2007)
WC: (3) A Selwood, Le Cras, Schofield

Rookies/PSD
Freo: (4) Sandilands, Duffield, Johnson, Crowley*(taken pick 55 in 2002 ND dropped before playing a game then picked up in the RD)
WC: (4) Cox, Lynch, Nicoski, Priddis

Trades
Freo: (1) Mcpharlin
WC: (1) Kennedy

Totals:
Freo: 10 (11 if you include Mcphee)
WC: 19

Points to note:
1) The Eagles can just about fill a team of players taken during this period while Freo wouldn't even fill half a side a big reason as to why WC are doing so well.
2) Picks after 30 in the ND generally don't work, only 4 success stories between both sides in 8 years of drafting, the rookie draft has produced twice this in the same period (not even including R Hayden-01).
3) Both clubs have had 8 top 30 draft picks not make the grade in this time.
4) We are technically 4 yrs into a process that takes 8-12 yrs to complete don't try take shortcuts I've watched our team struggle since 95 and only now do I think we have got our act together draft wise we have to keep drafting strongly for at least another 5 yrs and need to trade for some top 30 picks.
5) Free agency should be a great help for us in securing a superstar forward however I don't think free agency will do anything for us this year unless we get Cloke.

Finally PLAY THE ****ING KIDS LYON!!! I'd rather see Sheridan, Crozier, Walters, Roberton etc out there in place of Ibbo, Duff, Crowley even Mcphee cos they are not part of our future.

 

[Memories]

The eagles also went to two grand finals and won one in the timespan you give. Makes it even worse really, that they can that many players drafted in their success period still on their list.

 

[Whatname]

Cameron Schwab, great off field administrator but should come with a warning, keep out of your football department at all costs.

 

[free at last]

I should be studying for my exams next week so instead I compiled a list of Freo and WC players that were taken in the drafting periods from 2000-2007 which I feel is before our rebuild started. I did this because I am a firm believer this is why Freo are in such a poor state atm and there are no quick solutions but to draft strongly for the next decade, simply we start from scratch 2008 onwards. I chose WC cos they are doing very well atm but could draw up similar lists for Geelong (their build starts a bit earlier), Carlton/Hawks or Richmond (which starts later still but before us).

Players still on lists picked prior to 2000:
Freo: (2) Pavlich, Grover
WC: (2) Glass, Embley

Top 30 draft picks that are still on list:
Freo: (2) Mundy, Ibbotson
WC: (9) Kerr, Waters, Butler, Rosa, Hurn, Brown, Mckenzie, Masten, S. Selwood

Other picks later in the draft still on list:
Freo: (1) Mayne, (McPhee was pick 39 in 2000 but was traded then picked again in the 2010 PSD, therefore after 2007)
WC: (3) A Selwood, Le Cras, Schofield

Rookies/PSD
Freo: (4) Sandilands, Duffield, Johnson, Crowley*(taken pick 55 in 2002 ND dropped before playing a game then picked up in the RD)
WC: (4) Cox, Lynch, Nicoski, Priddis

Trades
Freo: (1) Mcpharlin
WC: (1) Kennedy

Totals:
Freo: 10 (11 if you include Mcphee)
WC: 19

Points to note:
1) The Eagles can just about fill a team of players taken during this period while Freo wouldn't even fill half a side a big reason as to why WC are doing so well.
2) Picks after 30 in the ND generally don't work, only 4 success stories between both sides in 8 years of drafting, the rookie draft has produced twice this in the same period (not even including R Hayden-01).
3) Both clubs have had 8 top 30 draft picks not make the grade in this time.
4) We are technically 4 yrs into a process that takes 8-12 yrs to complete don't try take shortcuts I've watched our team struggle since 95 and only now do I think we have got our act together draft wise we have to keep drafting strongly for at least another 5 yrs and need to trade for some top 30 picks.
5) Free agency should be a great help for us in securing a superstar forward however I don't think free agency will do anything for us this year unless we get Cloke.

Finally PLAY THE ****ING KIDS LYON!!! I'd rather see Sheridan, Crozier, Walters, Roberton etc out there in place of Ibbo, Duff, Crowley even Mcphee cos they are not part of our future.

Only if we get cloke ,which I hope we do.
In reality I just can't see it happening, can you?

 

[Harry Reems]

Amazing how West Coast made the 05 Grand Final, won a flag in 06, lost Judd and Cousins a year later.

Went out in straight sets in the 07 finals campaign.

Had a heap of off field issues and failed badly in 2008, 2009 and then won the spoon in 2010.

They then finish 4th in 2011 and look even better in 2012.

Not bad.

And what have we done?

 

[DR JAY]

I should be studying for my exams next week so instead I compiled a list of Freo and WC players that were taken in the drafting periods from 2000-2007 which I feel is before our rebuild started. I did this because I am a firm believer this is why Freo are in such a poor state atm and there are no quick solutions but to draft strongly for the next decade, simply we start from scratch 2008 onwards. I chose WC cos they are doing very well atm but could draw up similar lists for Geelong (their build starts a bit earlier), Carlton/Hawks or Richmond (which starts later still but before us).

Players still on lists picked prior to 2000:
Freo: (2) Pavlich, Grover
WC: (2) Glass, Embley

Top 30 draft picks that are still on list:
Freo: (2) Mundy, Ibbotson
WC: (9) Kerr, Waters, Butler, Rosa, Hurn, Brown, Mckenzie, Masten, S. Selwood

Other picks later in the draft still on list:
Freo: (1) Mayne, (McPhee was pick 39 in 2000 but was traded then picked again in the 2010 PSD, therefore after 2007)
WC: (3) A Selwood, Le Cras, Schofield

Rookies/PSD
Freo: (4) Sandilands, Duffield, Johnson, Crowley*(taken pick 55 in 2002 ND dropped before playing a game then picked up in the RD)
WC: (4) Cox, Lynch, Nicoski, Priddis

Trades
Freo: (1) Mcpharlin
WC: (1) Kennedy

Totals:
Freo: 10 (11 if you include Mcphee)
WC: 19

Points to note:
1) The Eagles can just about fill a team of players taken during this period while Freo wouldn't even fill half a side a big reason as to why WC are doing so well.
2) Picks after 30 in the ND generally don't work, only 4 success stories between both sides in 8 years of drafting, the rookie draft has produced twice this in the same period (not even including R Hayden-01).
3) Both clubs have had 8 top 30 draft picks not make the grade in this time.
4) We are technically 4 yrs into a process that takes 8-12 yrs to complete don't try take shortcuts I've watched our team struggle since 95 and only now do I think we have got our act together draft wise we have to keep drafting strongly for at least another 5 yrs and need to trade for some top 30 picks.
5) Free agency should be a great help for us in securing a superstar forward however I don't think free agency will do anything for us this year unless we get Cloke.

Finally PLAY THE ****ING KIDS LYON!!! I'd rather see Sheridan, Crozier, Walters, Roberton etc out there in place of Ibbo, Duff, Crowley even Mcphee cos they are not part of our future.

Thoughtful post, I wreckon the kids will start to come in after the bye.

 

[free at last]

Amazing how West Coast made the 05 Grand Final, won a flag in 06, lost Judd and Cousins a year later.

Went out in straight sets in the 07 finals campaign.

Had a heap of off field issues and failed badly in 2008, 2009 and then won the spoon in 2010.

They then finish 4th in 2011 and look even better in 2012.

Not bad.

And what have we done?

We've recruited outside ball receivers( flakey flankers) instead of win your own ball mids.

 

[Memories]

We've recruited outside ball receivers( flakey flankers) instead of win your own ball mids.

And we made a half back flanker in Mundy our highest paid midfielder. We have to adapt all those flanker types into positions we actually need!

 

[Big_Bad_Wolf]

What's with all the Ibbotson hate on this board?

I didn't think he's been that bad.

 

[Memories]

What's with all the Ibbotson hate on this board?

I didn't think he's been that bad.

Just another soft flanker. Has no aggression. Pretty much reasons that make freo supporters annoyed because we have had an abundance of players that don't seem to care about winning or being embarrassed by performances.

Whilst he may not be butchering the ball and making a fool of himself he isn't really doing anything to matter either.

Ballantyne could have no goals and 5 disposals but the guy is still trying to run players down and is getting in the face of the opposition. We just want most of our players to have his intent as a starter base to work from.

 

[free at last]

And we made a half back flanker in Mundy our highest paid midfielder. We have to adapt all those flanker types into positions we actually need!

Turned into positive in 2010 and last year ( up until mundy was seriously injured) IMO. I'm really optimistic of mundy recapturing that form in 2013.

 

[Big_Bad_Wolf]

Just another soft flanker. Has no aggression. Pretty much reasons that make freo supporters annoyed because we have had an abundance of players that don't seem to care about winning or being embarrassed by performances.

Whilst he may not be butchering the ball and making a fool of himself he isn't really doing anything to matter either.

Ballantyne could have no goals and 5 disposals but the guy is still trying to run players down and is getting in the face of the opposition. We just want most of our players to have his intent as a starter base to work from.

At the very least he's been reliable.

I can understand that you guys wanna see passion, effort and intent from players, but heart will only get you so far. Ibbotson at least has some skills. Would rather him on the HBF than Duffield.

 

[valkorum]

Duffield has a better kick than Ibbo (off both feat) - if you are going to have 1 of them then I would go Duffman over Ibbo

 

[Memories]

At the very least he's been reliable.

I can understand that you guys wanna see passion, effort and intent from players, but heart will only get you so far. Ibbotson at least has some skills. Would rather him on the HBF than Duffield.

Duffield is better than Ibbo. but you'd prefer your backline didn't rely on either of them. Both aren't exactly the hardest types going around. Ibbo has a really "Sweet boy" look about him that almost makes him appear like he shouldn't be involved in a violent game. He plays that way too.

 

[Big_Bad_Wolf]

Duffield has a better kick than Ibbo (off both feat) - if you are going to have 1 of them then I would go Duffman over Ibbo

I disagree. Do you know their comparative DE%?

Duffield is better than Ibbo. but you'd prefer your backline didn't rely on either of them. Both aren't exactly the hardest types going around.

You could knock Duffield over with a feather and he goes to water under pressure. Ibbotson at least is a decent overhead mark and has a bit of bulk on him (compared to Duffield).

 

[Memories]

You could knock Duffield over with a feather and he goes to water under pressure. Ibbotson at least is a decent overhead mark and has a bit of bulk on him (compared to Duffield).

Sure but Ibbo skirts contests and rarely wants to put his body on the line. His tackling pressure is beyond a joke, it could be because his shoulders are rooted? but either way it's a joke.

Duffield can find the pill that's the difference between these 2 similar types. Ibbo has a lot of <10 disposal games under his belt, Duffield doesn't.

 

[Big_Bad_Wolf]

Sure but Ibbo skirts contests and rarely wants to put his body on the line. His tackling pressure is beyond a joke, it could be because his shoulders are rooted? but either way it's a joke.

Duffield can find the pill that's the difference between these 2 similar types. Ibbo has a lot of <10 disposal games under his belt, Duffield doesn't.

Fair enough.

Realistically you guys would know more about both of the players than I would. From the 1/2 to 3/4's of Freo games that I'm vacantly looking at I thought Ibbotson seemed the livelier type.

He had a decent start to his career though - has it been wrecked by his shoulders?

 

[valkorum]

You prob watched one of the games that Ibbo decided to do anything and rack up 30 touches. He has done that a few times and then live off that for the next 10 weeks to a season

 

[Memories]

I wouldn't say injuries played any major part in his career to date, it's mostly the fact he is like many of our players only willing to put in enough to get a game. Most of our players start "trying harder" in the last year of their contracts. Flirting with us as to that's how good they are.

That's the culture we breed here at the moment, find things to do outside football to keep your mind off AFL. The last thing you want to do as a Freo player is concern yourself with football when you are not at the club. Apparently if you think about AFL "too much" it impacts your performance. Remember! Remember there is life after football, don't kill yourself trying to perform. This is the message some senior players have stated in interviews.

 

[Nickos66]

What's with all the Ibbotson hate on this board?

I didn't think he's been that bad.

And thus justifying the hate.

Opposition supporters like to play him.

 

[Patty_Moz]

Amazing how West Coast made the 05 Grand Final, won a flag in 06, lost Judd and Cousins a year later.

Went out in straight sets in the 07 finals campaign.

Had a heap of off field issues and failed badly in 2008, 2009 and then won the spoon in 2010.

They then finish 4th in 2011 and look even better in 2012.

Not bad.

And what have we done?

This is sort of my point.

The Eagles always build their list through contiual strong drafting. They go thru peaks and troughs performance wise but they have always built a strong foundation around picking young players in the draft and constructing a team. They don't tend to trade for players but often try trade some of their own players, who are not in their best 22 for draft picks.

We're building a foundation but it will be a while before we really see the results.

Only if we get cloke ,which I hope we do.
In reality I just can't see it happening, can you?

No I cant see us getting Cloke but I dont think that means we should be chasing Goddard or Montagna

Fair enough.

Realistically you guys would know more about both of the players than I would. From the 1/2 to 3/4's of Freo games that I'm vacantly looking at I thought Ibbotson seemed the livelier type.

He had a decent start to his career though - has it been wrecked by his shoulders?

Fair points on Ibbo he has had a decent start to his career our problem is we need him to bring his game to another level.