Review Geelong defeats Dons by 66 points.

[Down at K Park]

Definitely glute they were poking and prodding at when he took himself off, before returning.

It was a tight glute. Give him a week off and move jenkins forward, with stanley back in to ruck.

Jack Steven has an injured jaw, and can hardly eat. Might not be such a bad thing, ahem.

 

[Seeds]

I would put a line through jenkins. Offered absolutely nothing in marking contests. Didnt even bring the ball to ground.

 

[Seeds]

Sadly, I have ignored all these posters and can’t see their posts anymore.

*shakes fist*

Why would you ignore posters?

and why would you frown on bumping old posts? Its one of the best things about forums. Being able to gloat when you can show you were right and others are wrong. The only people who frown on it are the ones who are usually wrong.

menegola and guthrie have always been underated on this board because they were played out of position for years. They have always been best as mids. Not as back pockets or forward flankers.

 

[Pollywaffle]

I would put a line through jenkins. Offered absolutely nothing in marking contests. Didnt even bring the ball to ground.

Contested marking aversion was always one of the complaints against him when he was at Adelaide.
Look like Tarzan play like Jane
Probably explains all the Joe the gooses.
Still thought he did enough yesterday to keep looking at him instead of Sav.

 

[Seeds]

Contested marking aversion was always one of the complaints against him when he was at Adelaide.
Look like Tarzan play like Jane
Probably explains all the Joe the gooses.
Still thought he did enough yesterday to keep looking at him instead of Sav.

How did he do enough? He offered nothing in the marking contests and got slaughtered in the ruck. Most of his touches were chip kicks to him standing behind the ball. Atleast sav takes a few big grabs each week up forward and brings the ball to ground. He doesnt go after cheap kicks on the wing Behind the ball and insteads offers a contested marking option up forward. He also aint as bad a ruck as jenkins. Sav is clearly next in line after that display by jenkins.

 

[frggr]

How a Geelong supporter could ask this I'll never know. Stanley is in our top 3 most important players. We are not winning this flag without him. He can tap extremely well also and at worst stops opposition getting silver service all game. The ruck is certainly not overrated where Geelong is concerned and it's been a problem for us since Ottens retired which is a pretty long time now.

I wasn't making a statement, merely theorising.

Nankervis and Roughead weren't/aren't exactly A-graders and managed to take their teams all the way. Perhaps the need for an A-grade performance from Stanley is specific to Geelong's list and playstyle.

Perhaps midfield personnel balance might have been a bigger problem than lack of A-grade ruck, as the above teams show? The 'holy trinity' working in the same midfield may have been detrimental? (too many individuals working as individuals rather than a cohesive unit. Too much 'attack' not enough defence etc)

Are we playing better because Stanley is playing (and playing better)? Or are we playing better because Parfitt's playing better, or because we've got more defensive run in the midfield, or Guthrie's been allowed to flourish etc?

I think it's probably more detailed than just "Have Stanley = Good to go".

That said, Stanley certainly improves our chances, but I don't know that our chances hinge on him.

 

[catempire]

Why would you ignore posters?

There are plenty that aren’t worth reading as they contribute no valuable insight.

and why would you frown on bumping old posts? Its one of the best things about forums. Being able to gloat when you can show you were right and others are wrong. The only people who frown on it are the ones who are usually wrong.

As a mod, it tends to create friction between posters when one poster bumps a post of another being wrong. It’s fine to blow your own trumpet though

 

[Seeds]

There are plenty that aren’t worth reading as they contribute no valuable insight.

As a mod, it tends to create friction between posters when one poster bumps a post of another being wrong. It’s fine to blow your own trumpet though

see thats the wrong way to think. Sure you contribute to forums to get insight from others but you also contribute to provide insights to others. To those that are a little misguided or lacking key facts. You need to engage with such posters to help them out. Majority will is how our society determines what is right. when the majority is wrong or even s subset of it you need to engage

 

[you pick one]

How a Geelong supporter could ask this I'll never know. Stanley is in our top 3 most important players. We are not winning this flag without him. He can tap extremely well also and at worst stops opposition getting silver service all game. The ruck is certainly not overrated where Geelong is concerned and it's been a problem for us since Ottens retired which is a pretty long time now.

I wouldn't go that far.We played the Eagles on their home deck without him,NC had 34 HO and 3 CL Kennedy and Darling had the kicking boots on with 5 goals 1 between them and we only just fell short,would it be tougher to win the flag without him yes, impossible no.

 

[year of the cat]

Aw, I dunno. Hear this every year about Harry. He seemed to get to the right spots against the dogs and made some pretty important contributions.

When you have been slow your entire career, age isn't a huge factor. Just ask Fletcher.

I largely agree but it was more the manner that he was getting beaten that was a bit concerning. The goal that Townsend kicked on him was indicative of a guy that’s struggling to reach the finish line. Hopefully he can get through the next 2 months. A week off might be in order.

 

[catempire]

see thats the wrong way to think. Sure you contribute to forums to get insight from others but you also contribute to provide insights to others. To those that are a little misguided or lacking key facts. You need to engage with such posters to help them out. Majority will is how our society determines what is right. when the majority is wrong or even s subset of it you need to engage

Me putting them on ignore doesn’t stop them from reading my posts.

 

[cats_09]

Brisbane beat us for 3 quarters though.
I’d just prefer Port, but it isn’t a huge issue either way.

Don't forget we were 2 players down early in that match though - lost both Narkle & Duncan inside 10 minutes

A fit Duncan for the entire match makes bit of a difference to things - plus the added rotations help

 

[Ricketz]

I largely agree but it was more the manner that he was getting beaten that was a bit concerning. The goal that Townsend kicked on him was indicative of a guy that’s struggling to reach the finish line. Hopefully he can get through the next 2 months. A week off might be in order.

Yeah, and look he is no doubt feeling his age. Could easily give him the week off next week if we win this week, but I wouldn't shake the tree down back if we don't have to against Richmond (I know you didn't suggest that - just thinking when would be the best time to give him a break).

 

[Ricketz]

Jenkins was destroyed in the ruck. Looked completely at sea. He’s not a ruckman so it’s not surprising.

We were saved from a ruck demolition by Blicavs who was able to hold his own.

So how many goals did they score while Jenkins was rucking? Clearances? Or is it all about hitouts? If you are simply saying he didn't tap the ball first, that's a very limited view of what ruckwork actually is these days.

 

[Ricketz]

Close is shaping up very nicely , saw him over here on debut on a very wet and slippery night - one touch handled the footy like it was dry.
He's a real quick thinker and seems to have his option sorted before he takes possession - he's in a lot of scoring chains , very natural and clever footballer.
Whilst I think he's a better forward than Fog or Atkins he may lose his spot when Gaz comes back. That leaves Dal and Gaz as permanent small forwards with Miers having a licence to work up the ground and back.
I think Atkins or Fog will play due to their ability to play some on ball minutes.
Selection is going to be very , very tough.

That is a good point. Close doesn't chop out in the guts yet.

 

[Ricketz]

Maybe the ruck is overrated? 3 of the last 4 premierships were won by teams without 'proper' rucks - with midfielders as good as they are these days, unless you've got Natanui or Grundy who can deliver it to their mids with millimetre perfection, maybe it's not worth the trouble?

The ruck position itself isn't overrated. The hitouts stat is. It's pretty much no more influential on results than flipping a coin and giving it to which ever player calls it right. I think dominant hitouts performances have only produced a 52% win rate in games this year, losing almost as much as they win.

Our own ruck stocks are a great example. If you made a footy team based on hitouts, Rhys would be starting on the bench. He is not the 19th worst ruckman in the comp by any stretch.

 

[Ricketz]

Definitely glute they were poking and prodding at when he took himself off, before returning.

Ah, ok - I missed that. Reported as just a bit of tightness.

 

[Ricketz]

How a Geelong supporter could ask this I'll never know. Stanley is in our top 3 most important players. We are not winning this flag without him. He can tap extremely well also and at worst stops opposition getting silver service all game. The ruck is certainly not overrated where Geelong is concerned and it's been a problem for us since Ottens retired which is a pretty long time now.

Stanley is the 19th best tap ruckman in the league. We don't need him for his tapwork, we need him because he is quicker, runs harder, is better at ground level and presents in the forwardline.

 

[cats_09]

 

[Ricketz]

How did he do enough? He offered nothing in the marking contests and got slaughtered in the ruck. Most of his touches were chip kicks to him standing behind the ball. Atleast sav takes a few big grabs each week up forward and brings the ball to ground. He doesnt go after cheap kicks on the wing Behind the ball and insteads offers a contested marking option up forward. He also aint as bad a ruck as jenkins. Sav is clearly next in line after that display by jenkins.

14 possessions, 2 centre clearances, 3 score involvements, 3 intercepts, 4 inside 50's, 4 tackles, 206 metres gained (twice as much as Blicavs), 11 pressure acts, the lazy downhill skiing bugger. He hasn't played for over a year, he should have had enough energy to triple those stats.

Lucky he didn't kick any goals or you would be accusing him of trying to stuff Hawkins' coleman chances.

 

[catempire]

So how many goals did they score while Jenkins was rucking? Clearances? Or is it all about hitouts? If you are simply saying he didn't tap the ball first, that's a very limited view of what ruckwork actually is these days.

Clearly, the flogging that Jenkins received did not translate into a disadvantage for us on the scoreboard on this occasion. Personally, I’m unwilling to take the chance that this was some kind of revelation that means ruck contests are no longer important. I’d prefer, instead, to rely on a deep pool of data we have that shows ruck contests are generally important and sometimes decisive.

 

[Ricketz]

Brisbane beat us for 3 quarters though.
I’d just prefer Port, but it isn’t a huge issue either way.

Are you sure you watched this year's game? At best they beat us in the first and second. First was 1.6 to 1.4, second 3.2 to 2.0, third 0.1 to 7.3, and fourth 2.1 to 1.3.

Otherwise we had more scoring shots, and were in front everywhere else. A team doesn't beat you for three quarters and lose by five goals.

 

[Ricketz]

Clearly, the flogging that Jenkins received did not translate into a disadvantage for us on the scoreboard on this occasion. Personally, I’m unwilling to take the chance that this was some kind of revelation that means ruck contests are no longer important. I’d prefer, instead, to rely on a deep pool of data we have that shows ruck contests are generally important and sometimes decisive.

Or any occasion this year. Can you pick many games where we have ever won the hitouts?

I'm glad you have this deep pool of data. Can you post it here so that we can definitively end the discussion?

 

[Down at K Park]

Clearly, the flogging that Jenkins received did not translate into a disadvantage for us on the scoreboard on this occasion. Personally, I’m unwilling to take the chance that this was some kind of revelation that means ruck contests are no longer important. I’d prefer, instead, to rely on a deep pool of data we have that shows ruck contests are generally important and sometimes decisive.

Why even argue about it. He was only brought in to ruck because Stanley didn't play, and Fort hasn't played since hurting his foot. Basically last man standing. Highly unlikely he will be used as a main ruck again. It's not his role.

 

[Ricketz]

Jenkins was destroyed in the ruck. Looked completely at sea. He’s not a ruckman so it’s not surprising.

We were saved from a ruck demolition by Blicavs who was able to hold his own.

And he still got more touches and clearances than Draper...