Oppo Camp General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 5

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

There is skill in disposal, yes, of course, but at AFL level most guys have basic skills which are actually quite good. Similar to the NBA and free throws where the crap shooters still hit 82% which in any other context is pretty damned good, particularly for a centre. (Clangerfield the exception to the rule as must happen with every rule)

I would think the thing that most influences disposal efficiency at an AFL level is decision-making. If you make decision-making easier through team work and game plan, then disposal efficiency will almost certainly rise across the board. And DE for the back line is particularly pressure dependent. Players need not only worry about where to kick it but also must avoid being tackled in a compressed space and timeframe where a turnover is particularly costly. There's no one behind you to cover the mess. So if Frost knows where his teammates will be and if his teammates make the effort to be open and ready then all he needs to worry about is moving fast and kicking straight. Assessing the field, choosing options, figuring how play will develop ahead - all those pressures can be removed from his decision cycle.

So I'm hoping that a large part of his issue when playing for Melbourne was that he had to raise his head, look around and figure out what his teammates were doing this time. So he ran some, bought some time and then was forced into a difficult kick. Hopefully that sort of team play aspect of backline player outcomes will work better for him at Hawthorn. When you think that the rap on every defender coming out of Melbourne is that they are bad at disposals then maybe the issue isn't with the talent but with the plan. Fingers crossed, anyways.

Not sure i agree. Yes, under very limited pressure most can hit a target most of the time with 5 metres space from 45 metres away, but the number of players that kick out on the full jogging from half back in a stadium with a surface like a bowling green and virtually no wind, is staggering. So is the number of players that either kick out on the full or scrape in for a behind from a set shot that is pretty much in front and within their kicking distance.

 

[Brishawk]

Not sure i agree. Yes, under very limited pressure most can hit a target most of the time with 5 metres space from 45 metres away, but the number of players that kick out on the full jogging from half back in a stadium with a surface like a bowling green and virtually no wind, is staggering. So is the number of players that either kick out on the full or scrape in for a behind from a set shot that is pretty much in front and within their kicking distance.

Back in the old days players weren’t trying to kick it to an outnumbered player 1-2m in from the boundary so that when he drops the mark it goes out of bounds.

 

[A Cut Above]

Geelong spanked by the wooden spooners

 

[Dewnior]

Geelong spanked by the wooden spooners

 

[Gralin]

Geelong spanked by the wooden spooners

It's preseason who gives a s**t.
It doesn't count

 

[VandoHawk]

Yeah as much as I would like the handbaggers to slide preseason means very little. Gold Coast's biggest priority would have been winning the game to give up to their handful of supporters and the AFL while Geelong (from the brief viewing I had of the match) were trialling different things.

 

[Brishawk]

Yeah as much as I would like the handbaggers to slide preseason means very little. Gold Coast's biggest priority would have been winning the game to give up to their handful of supporters and the AFL while Geelong (from the brief viewing I had of the match) were trialling different things.

If Geelong got belted by as much in the second game I’d start to pay attention but week one is just blow out the cob webs. It means nothing.

 

[Cleavy]

pre-season doesn't count unless the teams you don't like lose, then it counts double

 

[rei154]

Jeez Gold Coast were exciting to watch!

I really hope they have a good year and get to around the nine win mark.

Both King brothers looked a force against their respective opponents, would love for GC to do a cheeky and try to get Max up there!

 

[Brishawk]

Jeez Gold Coast were exciting to watch!

I really hope they have a good year and get to around the nine win mark.

Both King brothers looked a force against their respective opponents, would love for GC to do a cheeky and try to get Max up there!

Everyone looks great playing witches hats. Personally prefer they didn’t exist. Don’t bring anything to the league apart from stretching thin resources. Their existence is pure hubris.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Not sure i agree. Yes, under very limited pressure most can hit a target most of the time with 5 metres space from 45 metres away, but the number of players that kick out on the full jogging from half back in a stadium with a surface like a bowling green and virtually no wind, is staggering. So is the number of players that either kick out on the full or scrape in for a behind from a set shot that is pretty much in front and within their kicking distance.

I'm with Brishawk on the change in play toward kicking along the boundary, but you make a very good point about kicking for goals. Last year our boys were particularly bad in front of goals early in the season and wasted so many opportunities. It was the same against the Saints last week. At half time the Hawks had 16 scoring shots kicking 8.8 to St Kilda's 11 kicking 9.2. And just sitting here I can remember three times I was very frustrated at misses from set shots in front. I think Patton had two.

So, kicking straighter when the opportunities are there will be a huge part of our success. But I don't expect Frost to be taking many of those shots.

 

[Brishawk]

I'm with Brishawk on the change in play toward kicking along the boundary, but you make a very good point about kicking for goals. Last year our boys were particularly bad in front of goals early in the season and wasted so many opportunities. It was the same against the Saints last week. At half time the Hawks had 16 scoring shots kicking 8.8 to St Kilda's 11 kicking 9.2. And just sitting here I can remember three times I was very frustrated at misses from set shots in front. I think Patton had two.

So, kicking straighter when the opportunities are there will be a huge part of our success. But I don't expect Frost to be taking many of those shots.

When your full forward was taking half your shots at goal and didn’t have to run 10km per game it was easier to have better accuracy.

I did some crude analysis a while back over a couple of months of games and the results indicated that accuracy was more a function of distance than angle but obviously angle was a factor too. But yeah between generations you also had a lot more marks inside fifty generated by players who had just belted back to defence and the run hard back the other way in order to find the space needed tot air a mark.

 

[Hawk Time]

It's preseason who gives a s**t.
It doesn't count

Yes it does, the imposters got smacked by 68 points by the wooden spooners if you don't enjoy that even in Feb something's wrong....

 

[TazHawk15]

Geelong spanked by the wooden spooners

It's preseason who gives a s**t.
It doesn't count

C.Scotts 80% losing record in Finals does count though.

 

[tommyk72]

When your full forward was taking half your shots at goal and didn’t have to run 10km per game it was easier to have better accuracy.

I did some crude analysis a while back over a couple of months of games and the results indicated that accuracy was more a function of distance than angle but obviously angle was a factor too. But yeah between generations you also had a lot more marks inside fifty generated by players who had just belted back to defence and the run hard back the other way in order to find the space needed tot air a mark.

I was also wondering in this match whether or inaccuracy was a function of playing at as ground with less wind cover (vs for example the G or docklands). I thought perhaps St Kilda dealt with our better as they’re used to it from training there?

 

[A Cut Above]

It's preseason who gives a s**t.
It doesn't count

 

[PT Bar None]

Everyone looks great playing witches hats. Personally prefer they didn’t exist. Don’t bring anything to the league apart from stretching thin resources. Their existence is pure hubris.

I feel exactly the same way about practice matches / low level naming rights sponsor community series

 

[Brishawk]

I feel exactly the same way about practice matches / low level naming rights sponsor community series

Clubs will always want to play practice matches. Might as well televise then to give us something to talk about

 

[Gralin]

C.Scotts 80% losing record in Finals does count though.

Yes that one most definitely counts

Nah.

 

[PT Bar None]

Did you see the Zorko push trainer wipeout thingy?

In trouble?

"Oh, the optics on this.": 2020 style pundit

 

[TylerDurden]

Neale's just had 46. Do we tag him r1?
Surely Robertson will tag Mitch.

 

[cryptor]

Neale's just had 46. Do we tag him r1?
Surely Robertson will tag Mitch.

I'd just have Shiels make him earn them.

 

[VandoHawk]

Neale's just had 46. Do we tag him r1?
Surely Robertson will tag Mitch.

I think you have to give Neale attention - very few players can accumulate like he does and while he isn't too damaging himself his ability to get the ball into the hands of Brisbane's prime users is elite. If Tommy was fully fit I would have loved to see them go head to head as they're both similar players and probably the best two pure extractors in the comp. However Brisbane will definitely tag Tommy so that won't be a matchup seen too often (plus Mitch won't be at 100%).

With Wingard/O'Meara/Worpel given more leeway due to the likely Mitchell tag I think you'd try and send Sheils to nullify Neale. Then back in that aforementioned group to beat Brisbane's remaining mids.

 

[TylerDurden]

I think you have to give Neale attention - very few players can accumulate like he does and while he isn't too damaging himself his ability to get the ball into the hands of Brisbane's prime users is elite. If Tommy was fully fit I would have loved to see them go head to head as they're both similar players and probably the best two pure extractors in the comp. However Brisbane will definitely tag Tommy so that won't be a matchup seen too often (plus Mitch won't be at 100%).

With Wingard/O'Meara/Worpel given more leeway due to the likely Mitchell tag I think you'd try and send Sheils to nullify Neale. Then back in that aforementioned group to beat Brisbane's remaining mids.

Solid plan mate. They will 100% target Mitchell.

 

[Bugs1977]

C.Scotts 80% losing record in Finals does count though.

The real question is what would that finals losing percentage look like if he didn’t win a premiership the first year he coached. It would surely be up around the 90% mark