News GMHBA Stadium Stage 5 Redevelopment

[cats_09]

I'm on my phone so can't find the quote but in sure Cook said in an interview years ago that they need at least 80k at the MCG to make the same amount as a game at KP brings the club. And that would've been when the stadium was at 20k capacity.

I know the quote you're talking about - pretty sure it was raised when we had a "home" game against Richmond at the MCG on a s**t Melbourne winter weekend and we only got like 35k in attendance

There was multiple figures discussed, but rough numbers for the MCG were

• 60k to break even
• 70k+ for a decent profit
• 80k to match a KP sell out

MCG games really don't help us financially in comparison to home games at home

 

[JohnZ]

This has been said before but I’m pretty certain the club elects to play two Melbourne games at the MCG.

It has been mentioned by Cookie and Hock many many times.

I’d also prefer all 11 in Geelong though (and I’m Melbourne based)

The club was in a vulnerable position before the redevelopment and almost permanently relocated to Docklands. Its been a long road back, made more difficult by the AFL signing contracts with venues it cannot fulfill due to letting the Melb clubs sell off home games (contract is for 90 games at mcg and marvel, 45 each, yet only 88 home games played by Melb teams. Guess who cop the other 2). Until the hawks and north leave tassie, we wont get our 11 games in Geelong.

Still don’t think that’s correct. Sub 30k at Geelong wouldn’t bring in same ROI as 80k at MCG.

Anyway, we agree on the fundamental goal of getting home games in Geelong

You might not like it but its the truth. Cooke was on the record back in 2013 saying a home game at KP back then made the club $750k after costs. That was when the club was pushing for the dogs to play games at KP. AFL said no and now they play in Ballarat

 

[STPer18]

Geelong chief executive Brian Cook said the offer was on the table for the Bulldogs and other clubs.

Talk of a boutique stadium invariably raises its head when the AFL is bargaining with its existing stadiums, but Cook said his door was also open to other clubs.

"We have had a couple of discussions with the AFL on the continual redevelopment of our stadium, and we are completing stage three now," he told the Herald Sun.

"We have spoken to the AFL on several occasions about the Doggies coming down in particular and playing other AFL clubs.

"We are very willing for that to happen. They would make very good money. Our capacity crowd was 22,000 last year and we made about $750,000 profit per game.

"Even if the Dogs only averaged half as much as that, the worst-case scenario is they get 10,000 people and they still make more than at Etihad Stadium."

22k capacity was $750,000 profit per game back in 2012-13, and during COVID Carter estimated it'd be a $1M loss per home game without crowds.

 

[Turbocat]

I know the quote you're talking about - pretty sure it was raised when we had a "home" game against Richmond at the MCG on a s**t Melbourne winter weekend and we only got like 35k in attendance

There was multiple figures discussed, but rough numbers for the MCG were

• 60k to break even
• 70k+ for a decent profit
• 80k to match a KP sell out

MCG games really don't help us financially in comparison to home games at home

For a while we also had games at Docklands... Whay back in 2000 it was planned that we would be there full time ..but the dollars just did not stack up. (Thank goodness) ..so then they rebuilt KP.

My guess is now a game like the Stk game when we have above 35,000 in attendance.. its probably better profit dollar wise than anywhere else ...but those two home games play an important role in prep for finals , the MCG is where you must play to win a GF ..and when we are out our best it has alwasy been a good ground for us.. ..and for compensating NON Geelong based members

Id be surprised if we ever have 11 home games at KP.

 

[Pods]

The club was in a vulnerable position before the redevelopment and almost permanently relocated to Docklands. Its been a long road back, made more difficult by the AFL signing contracts with venues it cannot fulfill due to letting the Melb clubs sell off home games (contract is for 90 games at mcg and marvel, 45 each, yet only 88 home games played by Melb teams. Guess who cop the other 2). Until the hawks and north leave tassie, we wont get our 11 games in Geelong.

You might not like it but its the truth. Cooke was on the record back in 2013 saying a home game at KP back then made the club $750k after costs. That was when the club was pushing for the dogs to play games at KP. AFL said no and now they play in Ballarat

Why would I not like it… i want the club to make as much as possible and preferably play in Geelong…

I’m not a shareholder of the MCG mate… I have no skin in the game. Just chatting with another poster.

 

[The_Todd07]

This has been said before but I’m pretty certain the club elects to play two Melbourne games at the MCG.

It has been mentioned by Cookie and Hock many many times.

I’d also prefer all 11 in Geelong though (and I’m Melbourne based)

Geez now we even have Cats fans saying this

The reason we don't get 11 home games is due to the contracts the AFL have to play a certain number of games in Melbourne.
They then let the likes of Hawthorn, North, Bulldogs and Melbourne sell games outside Melbourne leaving them short of the quota. Lucky us gets to pick up the slack to make sure the AFL can fulfil their contractual obligations.
Hocking has been on the record saying that they have tried to get 11 home games but with the current deals in place, we are screwed because the AFL need us to have MCG home games. The club is accepting it for now and trying to make the lost of it despite not being 1st choice.
This may change once Tassie come in, but I wouldn't be surprised if Hawthorn and North sell games elsewhere.

In 2009 Cook said that we get $26 per head at GMHBA when capacity was 23k, compared to $9 at the G. This is because at the G we only get a slice of tickets where as in Geelong there's a bigger slice of tickets plus we control sponsorship, food and drink, corporate shindigs, parking etc.
At the time a crowd of around 75k was needed in Melbourne to earn more than 23k capacity in Geelong. We can now fit in 40k so even if that $26 hasn't changed, it comes to $1m per home game. We aren't getting many crowds in Melbourne that will generate that much for the club.

 

[catters05]

Carlton and Essendon could play one extra game each at MCG so we could have our two moved back to KP.

AFL could probably make more money with Marvel by hosting some other major events during the season as well. NRL/Union/Soccer etc

 

[Pods]

Geez now we even have Cats fans saying this

The reason we don't get 11 home games is due to the contracts the AFL have to play a certain number of games in Melbourne.
They then let the likes of Hawthorn, North, Bulldogs and Melbourne sell games outside Melbourne leaving them short of the quota. Lucky us gets to pick up the slack to make sure the AFL can fulfil their contractual obligations.
Hocking has been on the record saying that they have tried to get 11 home games but with the current deals in place, we are screwed because the AFL need us to have MCG home games. The club is accepting it for now and trying to make the lost of it despite not being 1st choice.
This may change once Tassie come in, but I wouldn't be surprised if Hawthorn and North sell games elsewhere.

In 2009 Cook said that we get $26 per head at GMHBA when capacity was 23k, compared to $9 at the G. This is because at the G we only get a slice of tickets where as in Geelong there's a bigger slice of tickets plus we control sponsorship, food and drink, corporate shindigs, parking etc.
At the time a crowd of around 75k was needed in Melbourne to earn more than 23k capacity in Geelong. We can now fit in 40k so even if that $26 hasn't changed, it comes to $1m per home game. We aren't getting many crowds in Melbourne that will generate that much for the club.

So your position is cookie and hock aren’t being honest with members when they say they want to play some home games in Melbourne for Melbourne based fans and they’re only saying that to make the best of a s**t situation thrust upon us.

If your theory is correct, presumably we only started playing home games in Melbourne after clubs started selling games interstate?

I don’t care enough about this to do the legwork but would be interesting to see if that’s correct.

Anyway, let’s hope we get to play 11 home games in Geelong real soon. We’re a Geelong based team and that’s our home ground.

 

[The_Todd07]

So your position is cookie and hock aren’t being honest with members when they say they want to play some home games in Melbourne for Melbourne based fans and they’re only saying that to make the best of a s**t situation thrust upon us.

If your theory is correct, presumably we only started playing home games in Melbourne after clubs started selling games interstate?

I don’t care enough about this to do the legwork but would be interesting to see if that’s correct.

Anyway, let’s hope we get to play 11 home games in Geelong real soon. We’re a Geelong based team and that’s our home ground.

Not my position, from this article direct from Hocking to members at the AGM.

“There is a state government contract that is in place that requires all Victorian teams to play ‘X’ amount of games at both the MCG or Marvel Stadium,” Hocking told members at the club’s AGM.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au//sport/afl/cats-cold-on-playing-all-home-games-in-geelong-once-gmhba-stadium-is-complete/news-story/9ca69c2d285c420f61a6d3a4004af988

“There is a state government contract that is in place that requires all Victorian teams to play ‘X’ amount of games at both the MCG or Marvel Stadium,” Hocking told members at the club’s AGM.

“We are part of that, we are in Victoria, we are not interstate.

“We are part of a bigger competition and our role in that is we are part of that contract so there are games we naturally have to play in Melbourne.

“We have moved away from Marvel Stadium, we are playing at the MCG, we are making it work for us and we are looking to grow our membership base off the back of that.

Whether that changes in the future, we will be ready for that change and we will absolutely consider that … at this point in time we are making the most of Melbourne with those restrictions that are in place.”

We've been playing home games in Melbourne for much longer than teams selling games interstate but things change. For decades we had a 20kish capacity stadium that couldn't host night games, that has a bit of a limiting factor on the games we could have down here.
Once the redevelopment started the club started pushing for more games down here. So far we've been successful increasing from 7 to 9.
The thread you are posting in shows we now have a stadium good enough to host anyone, anytime.

 

[Pods]

Not my position, from this article direct from Hocking to members at the AGM.

“There is a state government contract that is in place that requires all Victorian teams to play ‘X’ amount of games at both the MCG or Marvel Stadium,” Hocking told members at the club’s AGM.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au//sport/afl/cats-cold-on-playing-all-home-games-in-geelong-once-gmhba-stadium-is-complete/news-story/9ca69c2d285c420f61a6d3a4004af988

“There is a state government contract that is in place that requires all Victorian teams to play ‘X’ amount of games at both the MCG or Marvel Stadium,” Hocking told members at the club’s AGM.

“We are part of that, we are in Victoria, we are not interstate.

“We are part of a bigger competition and our role in that is we are part of that contract so there are games we naturally have to play in Melbourne.

“We have moved away from Marvel Stadium, we are playing at the MCG, we are making it work for us and we are looking to grow our membership base off the back of that.

Whether that changes in the future, we will be ready for that change and we will absolutely consider that … at this point in time we are making the most of Melbourne with those restrictions that are in place.”

We've been playing home games in Melbourne for much longer than teams selling games interstate but things change. For decades we had a 20kish capacity stadium that couldn't host night games, that has a bit of a limiting factor on the games we could have down here.
Once the redevelopment started the club started pushing for more games down here. So far we've been successful increasing from 7 to 9.
The thread you are posting in shows we now have a stadium good enough to host anyone, anytime.

I agree it’s good enough to host anyone but we know that’s not widely agreed…

Off the top of my head I can recall Tigers having a real whinge about playing in Geelong.

Pretty sure we’d hear the same crap from Collingwood and other big Melb clubs.

Total BS of course, but they persist

 

[The_Todd07]

I agree it’s good enough to host anyone but we know that’s not widely agreed…

Off the top of my head I can recall Tigers having a real whinge about playing in Geelong.

Pretty sure we’d hear the same crap from Collingwood and other big Melb clubs.

Total BS of course, but they persist

They whinge because they get a massive advantage playing away games at their home ground against us, they don't want to give up that advantage and everything else is just bullshit.

 

[CatAttack84]

We should.

I still feel some MCG home games (minimal) are important. Especially with that decades long deal for the GF to be hosted at the MCG, our players, old and young, need practice on the MCG during regular season, and preferrably not just when 'away' to a rabble Hawthorn, Richmond, Collingwood mob.

But yes, you would think the club is in a strong position to back the AFL into a corner over hosting finals. We all know it's corruption and politics, not seat demand, that leads to so much of the finals in VIC being played at the MCG.

 

[stevothedevo]

It's total BS how we are still being held back from having all home games as legacy of Waverly being built over 50 years ago when all teams were forced to play 2 homes a game there.

I'm glad this is still remembered as it's the seeds for todays MCG contracts. Anyone under the age of 50 would only know the world where Geelong is forced to play home games in Melbourne. This is not a 'Docklands being built' thing. This is not a 'Geelong choose to play home games in Melbourne' thing. It all stems from Waverly.

And now here we are, 50 years later, all kinda used the idea with varying degrees. Even I am kinda content with a couple of games in Melbourne, knowing that a lot of supporters live there. But again, am I thinking this way because it's all I've ever known. If Waverly never happened and it was only after Docklands getting built that Geelong were forced to play some games in Melbourne, would I think different? Would there have been an outcry back in the year 2000?

I've asked my dad, who's in his 70's, if there was any angst from Geelong supporters, or the club, about the Waverly deal at the time. He can't recall any and even said that there may have been a feeling of excitement about playing the at new Waverly stadium. Remember, that late 1960's to early 1970's group of Geelong supporters are the only ones who have experienced going from all home games in Geelong to what we have today. So theoretically they're the ones who should've been most annoyed.

I'd ask anyone here to also question their parents or grandparents about the feeling of playing 100km away for a home game. It would've been a much bigger ask back then.

 

[Braklet]

It all stems from Waverly.

Fascinating stuff, all new to me:

Waverley Park - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The politics alone are worth a couple books.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Turbocat]

31,194. to a North game. Is that the biggest crowd to a North game ever? It would have to be the biggest crowd for a Roos game long time.. and considering train system was in maintenance mode ..a good effort.


I was actually in Melb Sun morn and drove down to Geelong ... it was probably an ideal time to be on the road ..but still once the cars get to the ground do we have the capability to handle it? Is that really what we will be doing in 10 , 20 years time? What is the future? Population of 400,000 plus for Geelong and by then I can see a time when cars are almost discouraged from cities. I suspect the trends will continue to the point that parking at KP will eventually dry up.

If we wish to really maximise attendance .. are we at the stage of making attending games as easy as possible.

We are lucky to have south Geelong so close. That will be part of the answer. Years ago ..there was talk about a Light rail or rail less trams for geelong that would run from city centre and down Moorabool. I wonder if Geelong will again look at that at some stage..considering community trends toward a non car future. We have stadium now like a big city venue. If we continue to get plus 30,000 .. maybe we have to start thinking about a non car future and big city approaches to spectator movement.

https://www.committeeforgeelong.com.au/new-age-tram-pitched-for-trial-in-central-geelong/#:~:text=The%20proposed%20trial%20submitted%20by,10%20stops%20along%20the%20route.

'Trackless trams' tipped to save emissions and budgets

Australian cities are being urged to consider adopting "trackless tram" technology to cut emissions, reduce traffic and help household budgets.

neoskosmos.com

 

[giggler99]

Enjoyed the view and the atmosphere in the new Joel Selwood stand yesterday but boy the mobile coverage is still sh!thouse! Couldn't even send a simple text out!

 

[supahoops]

With the AFL now owning Marvel surely contracts can be ripped up. Old enough to remember as a kid catching a bus into town, train to Spencer St., train to Clayton and a bus to Waverley - for a HOME GAME!!

Ideal world we are play 11 at KPark and the Trust/Council dangles $1.5m carrot in front of Norf/Dogs/Saints to play down here. Imagine the melts. Yet no one bats an eye playing us at home as the away team.

Get the MCG run but I’d rather be making finals on the back of 13 games down here and dealing with that ‘problem’ later, it’s a good one to have.

Won’t happen but no reason it shouldn’t.

 

[JohnZ]

31,194. to a North game. Is that the biggest crowd to a North game ever? It would have to be the biggest crowd for a Roos game long time.. and considering train system was in maintenance mode ..a good effort.


I was actually in Melb Sun morn and drove down to Geelong ... it was probably an ideal time to be on the road ..but still once the cars get to the ground do we have the capability to handle it? Is that really what we will be doing in 10 , 20 years time? What is the future? Population of 400,000 plus for Geelong and by then I can see a time when cars are almost discouraged from cities. I suspect the trends will continue to the point that parking at KP will eventually dry up.

If we wish to really maximise attendance .. are we at the stage of making attending games as easy as possible.

We are lucky to have south Geelong so close. That will be part of the answer. Years ago ..there was talk about a Light rail or rail less trams for geelong that would run from city centre and down Moorabool. I wonder if Geelong will again look at that at some stage..considering community trends toward a non car future. We have stadium now like a big city venue. If we continue to get plus 30,000 .. maybe we have to start thinking about a non car future and big city approaches to spectator movement.

https://www.committeeforgeelong.com.au/new-age-tram-pitched-for-trial-in-central-geelong/#:~:text=The%20proposed%20trial%20submitted%20by,10%20stops%20along%20the%20route.

'Trackless trams' tipped to save emissions and budgets

Australian cities are being urged to consider adopting "trackless tram" technology to cut emissions, reduce traffic and help household budgets.

neoskosmos.com

Trackless trams are a falacy. They are heavy busses which lock you into one manufacturer/supplier (same reason why monorails never became mainstream).

As for the rest of your points, yes, even yesterday getting a park near the ground was a challenge (normally would take the train from Lara but couldn't). A crowd of 40k would be near impossible without the trains up and running.

Geelong had a bus revamp when the Tarneit VLine opened, but it's still woefully inadequate. Running circles through the suburbs helps a few, and benefits no one. Running every 40-60min is nowhere near best practice. Studies have shown that people will walk 500-800m to a bus stop if the route is direct and it comes frequently (15min or better). The worse the service, the closer it needs to be to get used.

Busses are a cheap way of identifying which routes can become trams which should be the priority for a growing town.

 

[JohnZ]

With the AFL now owning Marvel surely contracts can be ripped up

Contracts are more complex than that. Delaware North pay good $$$ for a guaranteed number of games (they do the public food and bars), so do all the corporates (medallion club, corp boxes, sponsors and their catering), as well as security etc.

Reality is, Marvel isn't really the problem and never has been (outside of their ridiculous break-even crowd of 30k). The issue is the AFL letting so many VIC games get sold away to the point where they need Geelong to cover the shortfall. Until Hawks and Roos get redeployed out of Tassie, nothing will change.....until that happens, they get paid a truckload in cash and we have to cover the shortfall financially. Fair go.

 

[Two Planks]

I would rather play games at the MCG if they don't fix this problem with the phones and I live 5 minutes from GMHBA

 

[you pick one]

I'm glad this is still remembered as it's the seeds for todays MCG contracts. Anyone under the age of 50 would only know the world where Geelong is forced to play home games in Melbourne. This is not a 'Docklands being built' thing. This is not a 'Geelong choose to play home games in Melbourne' thing. It all stems from Waverly.

And now here we are, 50 years later, all kinda used the idea with varying degrees. Even I am kinda content with a couple of games in Melbourne, knowing that a lot of supporters live there. But again, am I thinking this way because it's all I've ever known. If Waverly never happened and it was only after Docklands getting built that Geelong were forced to play some games in Melbourne, would I think different? Would there have been an outcry back in the year 2000?

I've asked my dad, who's in his 70's, if there was any angst from Geelong supporters, or the club, about the Waverly deal at the time. He can't recall any and even said that there may have been a feeling of excitement about playing the at new Waverly stadium. Remember, that late 1960's to early 1970's group of Geelong supporters are the only ones who have experienced going from all home games in Geelong to what we have today. So theoretically they're the ones who should've been most annoyed.

I'd ask anyone here to also question their parents or grandparents about the feeling of playing 100km away for a home game. It would've been a much bigger ask back then.

I'd be your dads age and there was an excitement about Waverly but I was more focused at the time with Vietnam and conscription to be honest.I really can't remember to much of a backlash about a couple of games a year at Docklands but then it was the 70s and a lot of us don't remember much at all.

 

[dazbroncos]

I would rather play games at the MCG if they don't fix this problem with the phones and I live 5 minutes from GMHBA

my post from GD thread V North pregame -



"Head of KPARK TRUST on KROCK.

Optus and Telstra Towers on top of Hickey stand is the plan.

NExt 6-12 months.

KPARK Trust is working on it.

Was planned to be part of Comm Games development and that died with that.

But they are working on it and want it to get better."

GO Catters

 

[Willo_]

my post from GD thread V North pregame -



"Head of KPARK TRUST on KROCK.

Optus and Telstra Towers on top of Hickey stand is the plan.

NExt 6-12 months.

KPARK Trust is working on it.

Was planned to be part of Comm Games development and that died with that.

But they are working on it and want it to get better."

GO Catters

The first reply on air as well was spot on.... the coverage has been crap for years and they have had long enough to do something about it..

All just spin from the powers that be IMO



Only positive is that losers who spend all their time at the game and also posting on BF or Twitter can't do it and have to actually just watch the game!

 

[Two Planks]

Only positive is that losers who spend all their time at the game and also posting on BF or Twitter can't do it and have to actually just watch the game!

some of us losers might also like to know some stats, scores from other grounds, late team selection changes or even just be able to contact family members to organise transport home.

 

[cats2rise]

Only positive is that losers who spend all their time at the game and also posting on BF or Twitter can't do it and have to actually just watch the game!

How does their behaviour impact you so much you need to call people losers?