Review Good/Bad vs Collingwood

[WeedsMullet84]

Just finished watching the replay, and overall a good turnaround compared to the trash of last week.


Too fumbly at a few key's times late and some poor decision making.

Daicos killed us.


I was really happy with Parnell on Cheativan. Fully expected Ginnivan to kick a bag. But Parnell beat him. The first time I have seen Parnell capable of holding a SF defensively. Good signs.

Midfield mix was good. Loved seeing Sog in the rotation.

Dawson needs to work out the tag.

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Agreed. Locked down his player and also attacked when he was able to


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[NSolis]

Disposal Efficiency % is the most pointless and garbage stat in the game.

oliver and petracca at times have poor disposal efficiency stats.. even when they absolutely rip apart games!..

I think part of why Carmichael's DE% was so low is because all his disposals were kicks, where it is harder to always dispose of the ball to the advantage of your team, at least if you aren't playing deep in defence and chipping it around or kicking long to contests a lot. And he certainly had a solid game, got plenty of the ball, a bunch of clearances and a goal.

That said if you're going at 25% efficiency you are probably missing quite a lot of targets, so I don't think the stat is totally worthless, particularly if you are playing a role where you aren't under constant pressure and can actually be expected to put the ball to the advantage of your team the vast majority of the time. If Sholl or Dawson went at 25% in our team they would have likely had an absolutely diabolical game, for example.

 

[Gtowncrow]

The thing with Murray is he won't be in a successful crows side or at least he shouldn't. Most big guys are now 200cm + so he is already giving away around 10cms in height and reach. He also plays slow and is rubbish with the ball so generally is limited to a 15m chip sideways or dump down the line like butts. Tell me a good side that has 2 lockdowns defenders with this skillset?

Name me a club with two 20 year Olds as pillars of their defence... And face the avalanche of pressure our backline does.
They're going okay to my eye.

 

[MRB37]

I didn’t see all the game… but if this is true, how come they’ve figured this guy out so quickly and yet it‘s taken them a decade and a half (and counting) to figure out Joel Selwood?

Selwood at least plays fairly at times. Literally the first thing Ginnivan does every time he's near it is play for a free kick.

He could be a good player, I'm not sure, but he's gonna flush a potential career down the toilet by staging every time the ball comes within 2 metres of him, cause the umpires are gonna do what they did today and not pay it cause he's faking 90% of the time.

 

[MRB37]

We are so scared of losing members we will try anything to hold or get members back

The smell of financial fear is a cloud over West Lakes

I don't think it's purely financial, it's a football department trying to sell what they're doing as working to keep their jobs too. Every week it feels like Nicks or Kelly trot out the success of the SANFL as proof of the rebuild working (and bring up the selection pressure it supposedly brings), so what better way to sell that then win a SANFL premiership?

I'd say our SANFL success is more to do with a limited injury list than any magnificent results from a rebuild.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Why only 53% game time? I thought his tank was supposed to be one of his strengths.

ROB needs to be dragged off the ground kicking and screaming

Means Thilthorpe gets stuck on the bench for long periods

 

[WeedsMullet84]

What has happened to Doedee?

I know at times this season he’s been used as a KPD, but where has his intercepting/creative game gone when he’s being used in a floating role?

Does everyone fully understand where he sits amongst players from other clubs who play in the same position?

You’re talking James Sicily

6

James Sicily

Age

29

Ht

188cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

12.7

5star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

365.0

5star

D

19.4

4star

K

14.3

5star

HB

5.1

3star

M

5.9

5star

T

1.0

2star

MG

437.4

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

173.8

3star

, Nick Vlaustuin, Tom Stewart

This guy was Pick 17, is 25 years old and should be at the peak of abilities, yet he has regressed significantly this season

A lot of people also starting to notice how much he doesn’t keep his feet. Got done a few times last night where he’s gone to ground far too easily and his opponent has stayed up and been able to affect the contest


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[John Who]

Joel’s a bleeder


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Plus he gets all the sympathy points with the courage badge of head bandages.

 

[Jirkago75]

I think part of why Carmichael's DE% was so low is because all his disposals were kicks, where it is harder to always dispose of the ball to the advantage of your team, at least if you aren't playing deep in defence and chipping it around or kicking long to contests a lot. And he certainly had a solid game, got plenty of the ball, a bunch of clearances and a goal.

That said if you're going at 25% efficiency you are probably missing quite a lot of targets, so I don't think the stat is totally worthless, particularly if you are playing a role where you aren't under constant pressure and can actually be expected to put the ball to the advantage of your team the vast majority of the time. If Sholl or Dawson went at 25% in our team they would have likely had an absolutely diabolical game, for example.

Stats are usually BS, they can make players who are poor look fantastic. Last week BSMITH got over 800 gained, yet not one of those went to our players, in fact he hit the opponent on the chest many times. Mcrouch lost week had a heap of the ball and got a 100 in SuperCoach but was plain awful.

Need to judge players when you watch the game to see how they play, what they do when the pressure is on and when the games up for grabs not when we are winning easy.

 

[Bazz_27]

Stats are usually BS, they can make players who are poor look fantastic. Last week BSMITH got over 800 gained, yet not one of those went to our players, in fact he hit the opponent on the chest many times. Mcrouch lost week had a heap of the ball and got a 100 in SuperCoach but was plain awful.

Need to judge players when you watch the game to see how they play, what they do when the pressure is on and when the games up for grabs not when we are winning easy.

Stats are black and white. How a player looks is subjective, I thought Smith was decent last week and others shared that view.

DE is not a stat that is worthless, ineffective kicks don't help a team. I mean the difference of 5 - 10% is nothing and wouldn't say that shows one player is better than another. Also key defenders or players with bad kicking generally do short safer kicks which inflates their stat. If a guy is getting 25% though it tells you plenty

 

[NSolis]

Stats are usually BS, they can make players who are poor look fantastic. Last week BSMITH got over 800 gained, yet not one of those went to our players, in fact he hit the opponent on the chest many times. Mcrouch lost week had a heap of the ball and got a 100 in SuperCoach but was plain awful.

Need to judge players when you watch the game to see how they play, what they do when the pressure is on and when the games up for grabs not when we are winning easy.

Smith was pretty good against Hawthorn, probably one of his better games this year.

Definitely disagree that 'stats are usually BS'. Stats are a tool you can use to help analyse the game, they aren't the full story but they aren't useless either. You can't look at one stat like meters gained or possessions and be certain how influential a player was, but having 800 meters gained for someone playing Smith's role is going to be better than having 400 meters gained in the majority of situations, which makes the stat useful. Also, some elements of the game aren't flashy and don't stand out as much as others when just watching the game but can still be highly influential, like say winning clearances. Stats are helpful there also.

 

[Jirkago75]

Smith was pretty good against Hawthorn, probably one of his better games this year.

Definitely disagree that 'stats are usually BS'. Stats are a tool you can use to help analyse the game, they aren't the full story but they aren't useless either. You can't look at one stat like meters gained or possessions and be certain how influential a player was, but having 800 meters gained for someone playing Smith's role is going to be better than having 400 meters gained in the majority of situations, which makes the stat useful. Also, some elements of the game aren't flashy and don't stand out as much as others when just watching the game but can still be highly influential, like say winning clearances. Stats are helpful there also.

I thought he was poor and kicked it long to the opposition without looking. I know the team played poor and maybe that didn’t help. To many times stats are not showing the true indication of the game and coaches use stats to show they are going well even though we aren’t winning

 

[1970crow]

Of course we did

6 month contract
Injured
Deny Glenelg a player
Added: Fits age profile to boost ''experience''

We are so hell bent on winning a SANFL flag that we are port adelaide

Plus we've got a senior coach using SANFL performance as the sole arbiter to determine AFL level rebuild progression.

 

[1970crow]

It's a far cry, from a couple of seasons ago then, when SANFL clubs were fearful the Crows wouldn't take the comp seriously ......now you're trying to tell me we're taking up a list spot to win the comp, in preference to a list need

View attachment 1448985

you seriously r3ckon vanilla depth mid is a list need? We've got first round drafted mids that we can't squeeze into our stacked midfield rotation. Plus Crouch that we couldn't replace McAdam with quick enough at the last minute when a spot opened up.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

you seriously r3ckon vanilla depth mid is a list need? We've got first round drafted mids that we can't squeeze into our stacked midfield rotation. Plus Crouch that we couldn't replace McAdam with quick enough at the last minute when a spot opened up.

Turners type, and age profile, yes ..... nothing to do with our drafted picks, and everything to do with the midfield mix .....at least for 2 -3 years

As I posted ....in part the selection may have occurred due to the imminent departure of Crouch

Lets judge the Turner pick next year ....after he's done an AFL PS

 

[Geoffa32]

Of course we did

6 month contract
Injured
Deny Glenelg a player
Added: Fits age profile to boost ''experience''

We are so hell bent on winning a SANFL flag that we are port adelaide

Win the SANFL flag this year and we hit their "three Premierships in five seasons KPI"

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[Sanders]

Sanders will have something to say about this

With your hair trigger I’d recommend a delay cream

 

[Pie eyed]

Bad luck Crows.
Plenty to be happy about other than the result.
Good luck.

 

[CrowBloke]

1) I followed West Adelaide forever ....so optimism was a pre-requisite to survival, a coping mechanism

2) I love rebuilds, because I love seeing the kids develop and trying to pick the gems

3) Used to be a time, no-one could speak to me for 4 days after a loss .....but I never lost that excitement for the next match, the next opportunity to win .....these days, I'm more objective & pragmatic

1) Yeah, long time for us between "drinks".
My fave was the 1983 win --- Kerls as Coach, really good SANFL side, plus I won the tipping Comp for the GF.
Made unforgettable because I ended up staying at the GF host's place overnight ; she was also an avid Westies fan and a co-teacher.
2) I'm too impatient I think, although I have enjoyed watching some of the kids come along. What happened to Sholl, who showed so much early on?
3) I'd be grumpy that night, maybe into the morning.
These days, it doesn't matter as much as it used to. My life has gone in (good) directions un-anticipated and it's just a game of footy, after all.

 

[Sanders]

I thought he was poor and kicked it long to the opposition without looking. I know the team played poor and maybe that didn’t help. To many times stats are not showing the true indication of the game and coaches use stats to show they are going well even though we aren’t winning

You’re forgetting that most of the important stats that clubs rely upon are not made public

We don’t know what stats they’re looking at

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Berry is the only one who plays offensively and defensively. Laird is a very good tackler but he has a habit of not using his hands and instead hack kicks it.

Hang-on .....last week Laird was accused of over-handballing .....so which is it ?

 

[Bearded Clam]

Stats are black and white. How a player looks is subjective, I thought Smith was decent last week and others shared that view.

DE is not a stat that is worthless, ineffective kicks don't help a team. I mean the difference of 5 - 10% is nothing and wouldn't say that shows one player is better than another. Also key defenders or players with bad kicking generally do short safer kicks which inflates their stat. If a guy is getting 25% though it tells you plenty

I have looked and I have asked and I havent been able to be linked to the exact definition of DE and how it is measure/judged. but some say it is simply disposing of the ball to a team mates advantage or in a way that your team mate can do something with it..

but as for your first line “stats are black and white”.. pffft.. that could possibly be the stupidest thing written on here.

stats are far from black and white and are almost always cherry picked, tinkered with and bastardised in order to suit one’s agenda..

and when it comes to DE.. how can it not be subjective?.. unless it is the same one person that is somehow watching every single game and judging every single disposal that is ever made.. because if it isnt then its subjective right as it comes down to the thoughts of each individual statistician on judging whether or not a disposal has been efficient.

and on that… lets take two example plays.

Play 1) Laird kicks the ball halfway to the moon and back but Tex miraculously marks it..

Play 2) Soligo fires in a perfect lace out pass but himmelburg misjudged his lead to it, has concrete hands and ends up spilling the mark..

does Laird get marked higher than Soligo in regards to disposal efficiency?.. one is a shithouse kick made to look good by a talented player and the other is a brilliant kick made to look bad by a s**t player.. does the statistician take into account the abilities of the receiving player?. do they look at the quality of the kick?.. does going halfway to the moon and back mark a kick down, in regards to efficiency, even if it goes to the advantage of a team mate?

see… its a bullshit stat. its almost impossible to adjudicate evenly/fairly/consistently.

 

[Bazz_27]

I have looked and I have asked and I havent been able to be linked to the exact definition of DE and how it is measure/judged. but some say it is simply disposing of the ball to a team mates advantage or in a way that your team mate can do something with it..

but as for your first line “stats are black and white”.. pffft.. that could possibly be the stupidest thing written on here.

stats are far from black and white and are almost always cherry picked, tinkered with and bastardised in order to suit one’s agenda..

and when it comes to DE.. how can it not be subjective?.. unless it is the same one person that is somehow watching every single game and judging every single disposal that is ever made.. because if it isnt then its subjective right as it comes down to the thoughts of each individual statistician on judging whether or not a disposal has been efficient.

and on that… lets take two example plays.

Play 1) Laird kicks the ball halfway to the moon and back but Tex miraculously marks it..

Play 2) Soligo fires in a perfect lace out pass but himmelburg misjudged his lead to it, has concrete hands and ends up spilling the mark..

does Laird get marked higher than Soligo in regards to disposal efficiency?.. one is a shithouse kick made to look good by a talented player and the other is a brilliant kick made to look bad by a s**t player.. does the statistician take into account the abilities of the receiving player?. do they look at the quality of the kick?.. does going halfway to the moon and back mark a kick down, in regards to efficiency, even if it goes to the advantage of a team mate?

see… its a bullshit stat. its almost impossible to adjudicate evenly/fairly/consistently.

Seen as you can't google - Stats glossary: Every stat explained here is the mythical disposal efficiency explained to you

 

[Bearded Clam]

Seen as you can't google - Stats glossary: Every stat explained here is the mythical disposal efficiency explained to you

nope… I read that..

thats a glossary. barely explains anything at all.

give me a link to the exact criteria the statisticians that are judging DE% are using.. not some glossary.

edit: its a Champion Data stat isnt it?..

 

[Mutineer]

nope… I read that..

thats a glossary. barely explains anything at all.

give me a link to the exact criteria the statisticians that are judging DE% are using.. not some glossary.

edit: its a Champion Data stat isnt it?..

Pretty clear in the introduction..

"Below are the definitons of all the key stats used by Champion Data. Note, we have left the self-explanatory stats blank."