List Mgmt. Graeme Wrights Recruiting (Analysing HFC recruiting from 2011-present)

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Come back Cyril

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Jul 17, 2020
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Hawthorn
Last year a bad Richmond still won at the G
We'd not beaten Brisbane for a while either.

You can only deal with the opponent in front of you on the day.

We are clearly playing poorly right now but it's not like we've not got issues with our younger bloke's as well.

We've got players in their prime years not playing well but the focus is on the guys who've won flags only it seem.

Playing more kids won't automatically make us better and it's not necessarily the best thing for those kids development either, assuming the club sees a future for them which it may not.
Normally I would agree that not playing the kids who aren't ready can actually be better for their development, but I think this year is different.

I'm worried that without the normal structures of regular VFL games and less development staff, those not playing are more likely to stagnate than in previous years. Additionally, we will potentially need a major list cull if list numbers are reduced next year. In my view, this year, more than any other we need to be prepared to suffer some short term pain to get games into kids we are confident will be long term players for the club (Day, Scrimshaw, Maginness, Lewis?, Walker?), and younger players who are on the fringes of being cut (Moore, Nash, Cousins? Hanrahan? Glass?).

Might need to happen in any event if we have to play a clump of games with short turnaround..
 

Alite

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Nov 5, 2014
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Righteo,
Sicily, Day, Scrimshaw, Hardwick, Wingard, Omeara, Mitchell, Worpel, Impey, Maginness is our future core. Tempted to add Morrison. Think he will come good after 50 games. High hopes still for Matt Walker and Kosi. Not sold on Lewis at all. Thats enough talent to not spend too long bottoming out. Hit the draft and some shrewd trades we can be back in 3 years.
I would, trade the following.
GWS- they need a flag. strike now, they are desperate for a small fwd and ruck. Trade them Mcevoy and Bruest. They can give us Hill with one of Caldwell, Hately or XOH, plus a second round pick. We need to get young talent in, they need to win a flag in next couple years.
BRISBANE- Gunston would be ideal for them. They have two first rounders this year. Ports and their own. Ask for both of them. If not, one of those, plus Witherden. They took Birch, so hit them back by taking a younger talented HBF off them.

We really need to even up our past trades with some 2 for 1 deals for us. Whether thats 2 young players or 1 plus a draft pick. I love Gunners and Punky but they're our only chance to go for this.

There will have to be some short term pain for this list. We need to hit draft for 3 years hard. We need a Ruck, 2 x KPF, 1 x KPD desperately. Try hard for a bottom 5 finish this year and take DGB, and if we can jag that brisbane first take Callow. That's 1 KPF and KPD.

End of year Delist/retire Burgoyne, Stratton, Henderson, Poppy, Scully, Brooksby.

Finally, we need to see what these 2 irishman can do. They must play rest of year. Same with Dylan Moore and Ross. If 1 or 2 of those jump up and show something then the rest of the year can be a success, as well as pumping games into Day, Morris, Morrison, Lewis etc. Nothing less enjoyable than watching our old/slow side get beaten, at least with youth you can watch the game without worrying about the scoreboard as such and take positives out of their development.
I like the clear strategy in this.

The 2020 pool of draft picks is not like 2019 in terms of talent.

The Hawks will get a wingman. needed as our 2 wingman are combined older than Jesus.

We have our next ... a season or 2 away...wingman
 

Pessimistic

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With no O'Brien. Nash would be looking likely. He can be a defensive tall if not quite an attacking one - although his long goal in the scratch match footage looked promising. Both he and Lewis are good kicks inside 50 too. Would like to see more made of this
 

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Roger Rogerson

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 9, 2006
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Normally I would agree that not playing the kids who aren't ready can actually be better for their development, but I think this year is different.

I'm worried that without the normal structures of regular VFL games and less development staff, those not playing are more likely to stagnate than in previous years. Additionally, we will potentially need a major list cull if list numbers are reduced next year. In my view, this year, more than any other we need to be prepared to suffer some short term pain to get games into kids we are confident will be long term players for the club (Day, Scrimshaw, Maginness, Lewis?, Walker?), and younger players who are on the fringes of being cut (Moore, Nash, Cousins? Hanrahan? Glass?).

Might need to happen in any event if we have to play a clump of games with short turnaround..
It is a very good point you make. If you have watched the scrimmage highlights it is very light on in terms of pressure. No way are our youngsters getting the same grounding as they were in the VFL against seasoned top level surbuban players.

Plus take away development staff and the ability to spend time on each young player to improve their deficiencies is reduced dramatically.

It is one reason I think we are seeing a bumper crop come through from the 2018 draft as the standard has dropped significantly making AFL in reach earlier for draftees.
 

The Offerman

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With no O'Brien. Nash would be looking likely. He can be a defensive tall if not quite an attacking one - although his long goal in the scratch match footage looked promising. Both he and Lewis are good kicks inside 50 too. Would like to see more made of this
Nash is not a good kick anywhere.
 

Pessimistic

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He and others are interesting project players eg reeves. if lists are cut there'll be less of that, and development will have to happen at a lower level where they are starved of funds.
Or the AFL could subsidise the next level to replicate some of the set up (Gym medical etc) that AFL clubs have. Then where's the saving when AFL clubs can provide that quite cheaply anyway through alliances?
 

On Topic

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Jan 7, 2018
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I think Nash will make it.
Me too. I think he was thrown to the wolves a bit too early.

His goal from outside 50 was seamless in the scrimmage match. He clearly has a lot of potential and is exactly the type of rookie you want on the list. If he can get it all together over the next couple of years, we will be laughing.
 

kirbatron

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I think our LM decisions & choices since 2015 has been average.

Drafted - 4 good, 7 unknown, 2 poor
Burton (19) - poor
Lovell (22) - poor
Hardwick (44) - good
Morrison (74) - ??
Lewis (76) - good
Worpel (45) - good
Moore (67) - ??
Ross (71) - ??
Kozi (52) - ??
Walker (63) - ??
Day (13) - good
Maginess (29) - ??
Morris (57) - ??

We missed our opportunity in 2018 to stock up on talent. another LM oversight.

Trades - 5 good, 5 poor, 1 unknown
Hill for 23 - poor
S Mitchell for 88 - good (we picked up Lewis)
J Lewis - 48 (upgraded from 57) - poor
T Mitchell for 14 - good
Omeara - 7 (H Clark), 23 (Witherdon), 36 (J Williams) for 10 & 68 - poor
Impey - 34 - good
Wingard - Burton, 15 (Duursma) & 35 (T Joyce) - poor
Scrimshaw - 3rd pick downgrade - good
Scully 4th rd - poor
Patton 4th rd - ??
Frost - good


FAs - poor
Fyfe - missed
Lynch - missed
Sloane - missed
Coniglio - missed
Whitfield - missed
Henderson - good
Minchington - ??
 

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Spursfan

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Mar 30, 2008
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I think our LM decisions & choices since 2015 has been average.

Drafted - 4 good, 7 unknown, 2 poor
Burton (19) - poor
Lovell (22) - poor
Hardwick (44) - good
Morrison (74) - ??
Lewis (76) - good
Worpel (45) - good
Moore (67) - ??
Ross (71) - ??
Kozi (52) - ??
Walker (63) - ??
Day (13) - good
Maginess (29) - ??
Morris (57) - ??

We missed our opportunity in 2018 to stock up on talent. another LM oversight.

Trades - 4 good, 4 poor
Hill for 23 - poor
S Mitchell for 88 - good (we picked up Lewis)
J Lewis - 48 (upgraded from 57) - poor
T Mitchell for 14 - good
Omeara - 7 (H Clark), 23 (Witherdon), 36 (J Williams) for 10 & 68 - poor
Impey - 34 - good
Wingard - Burton, 15 (Duursma) & 35 (T Joyce) - poor
Scrimshaw - 3rd pick downgrade - good


FAs - poor
Fyfe - missed
Lynch - missed
Sloane - missed
Coniglio - missed
Whitfield - missed
Just because was Burton was traded doesn't mean he wasn't a good selection at the time. 4/5 of those FAs resigned at the same club so every one else chasing them missed out too. Though I do agree a couple of those trades we were a bit generous.
 

kirbatron

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Just because was Burton was traded doesn't mean he wasn't a good selection at the time. 4/5 of those FAs resigned at the same club so every one else chasing them missed out too. Though I do agree a couple of those trades we were a bit generous.
Whether it be body or we thought he would leave (both have been touted as to why we traded him & were known risks) - and so we ultimately did trade him a few years after. it gets a poor rating in my book.
 

The Offerman

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Oct 8, 2016
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Button was renovating his Melbourne home with his partner when we offered him up for trade. Could he have left in the future? Possibly, but he had no intention of doing so anytime soon. The club forced him out
 

MrPremiership

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Nov 18, 2013
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I think our LM decisions & choices since 2015 has been average.

Drafted - 4 good, 7 unknown, 2 poor
Burton (19) - poor
Lovell (22) - poor
Hardwick (44) - good
Morrison (74) - ??
Lewis (76) - good
Worpel (45) - good
Moore (67) - ??
Ross (71) - ??
Kozi (52) - ??
Walker (63) - ??
Day (13) - good
Maginess (29) - ??
Morris (57) - ??

We missed our opportunity in 2018 to stock up on talent. another LM oversight.

Trades - 5 good, 5 poor, 1 unknown
Hill for 23 - poor
S Mitchell for 88 - good (we picked up Lewis)
J Lewis - 48 (upgraded from 57) - poor
T Mitchell for 14 - good
Omeara - 7 (H Clark), 23 (Witherdon), 36 (J Williams) for 10 & 68 - poor
Impey - 34 - good
Wingard - Burton, 15 (Duursma) & 35 (T Joyce) - poor
Scrimshaw - 3rd pick downgrade - good
Scully 4th rd - poor
Patton 4th rd - ??
Frost - good


FAs - poor
Fyfe - missed
Lynch - missed
Sloane - missed
Coniglio - missed
Whitfield - missed
Henderson - good
Minchington - ??
I think the issue is the question marks there. Other teams have gotten games into their kid, where we still have so many that we don't know about because they just haven't played
 

savagelunchbox

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Whether it be body or we thought he would leave (both have been touted as to why we traded him & were known risks) - and so we ultimately did trade him a few years after. it gets a poor rating in my book.
It was what Port asked for plus draft picks, and we thought that Wingard at his peak was better and worth the trade. It was a good pick at the time for what we needed, regardless of the outcome 3 years down the track. Being the 'nice guys' in the trade world, Port took advantage of us knowing we'd give him up because of how much Clarkson loved Wingard.


BTW, the 2nd pick we sent Port in the trade was on-traded to Brisbane who selected Tom Berry. "T Joyce", whoever that is, was selected at 35 because of academy/FS/NGA selections pushing draft picks back.
 

Yardie

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Feb 6, 2004
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I think our LM decisions & choices since 2015 has been average.

Drafted - 4 good, 7 unknown, 2 poor
Burton (19) - poor
Lovell (22) - poor
Hardwick (44) - good
Morrison (74) - ??
Lewis (76) - good
Worpel (45) - good
Moore (67) - ??
Ross (71) - ??
Kozi (52) - ??
Walker (63) - ??
Day (13) - good
Maginess (29) - ??
Morris (57) - ??

We missed our opportunity in 2018 to stock up on talent. another LM oversight.

Trades - 5 good, 5 poor, 1 unknown
Hill for 23 - poor
S Mitchell for 88 - good (we picked up Lewis)
J Lewis - 48 (upgraded from 57) - poor
T Mitchell for 14 - good
Omeara - 7 (H Clark), 23 (Witherdon), 36 (J Williams) for 10 & 68 - poor
Impey - 34 - good
Wingard - Burton, 15 (Duursma) & 35 (T Joyce) - poor
Scrimshaw - 3rd pick downgrade - good
Scully 4th rd - poor
Patton 4th rd - ??
Frost - good


FAs - poor
Fyfe - missed
Lynch - missed
Sloane - missed
Coniglio - missed
Whitfield - missed
Henderson - good
Minchington - ??
Think you need to include an OK as a minimum rather than a black/white approach. I'd say Burton was OK/Good, Morrison is OK, Lewis OK, J Lewis OK, Scully & Patton are ok (both gotten for a packet of chips). And you can't include Fyfe in the FA discussion, was never going to leave Freo.
 

HawkVan

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Jun 12, 2020
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We should be what the Swans were yesterday. They had nine players under 21. The season is cooked, shock horror, and we are wasting the year if we don't simply play youth, no matter how good you think they are, let's find out.

We played a ******* 30 year old journeyman yesterday! How on earth can anything highlight more your list management strategy is awful if you're bottom five, playing a 30 year trier for his 15th games across three clubs?

Minchington looks like a mini Stewie Dew, with one tenth the ability, and he is getting a game. Whilst Moore watches on as an emergency. Ross doesn't even seem close.

Watching Pitto this year, touch up Goldy yesterday, is yet another example of the total balls up our list management strategy has been from 2016 onwards.

And lastly, Clarko is constantly placing more pressure on us as a club by his swipes at the game, umpires and opposition players this year. Blrg.
 
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NICE1

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We should be what the Swans were yesterday. They had nine players under 21. The season is cooked, shock horror, and we are wasting the year if we don't simply play youth, no matter how good you think they are, let's find out.

We played a ******* 30 year old journeyman yesterday! How on earth can anything highlight more your list management strategy is awful if you're bottom five, playing a 30 year trier for his 15th games across three clubs?

Minchington looks like a mini Stewie Dew, with one tenth the ability, and he is getting a game. Whilst Moore watches on as an emergency. Ross doesn't even seem close.

Watching Pitto this year, touch up Goldy yesterday, is yet another example of the total balls up our list management strategy has been from 2016 onwards.

And lastly, Clarko is constantly placing more pressure on us as a club by his swipes at the game, umpires and opposition players this year. Blrg.
To sit there and criticise Papley, Umpires ect given where we are at, was an absolute pathetic response.
 

rei154

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Jun 13, 2019
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We should be what the Swans were yesterday. They had nine players under 21. The season is cooked, shock horror, and we are wasting the year if we don't simply play youth, no matter how good you think they are, let's find out.

We played a ******* 30 year old journeyman yesterday! How on earth can anything highlight more your list management strategy is awful if you're bottom five, playing a 30 year trier for his 15th games across three clubs?

Minchington looks like a mini Stewie Dew, with one tenth the ability, and he is getting a game. Whilst Moore watches on as an emergency. Ross doesn't even seem close.

Watching Pitto this year, touch up Goldy yesterday, is yet another example of the total balls up our list management strategy has been from 2016 onwards.

And lastly, Clarko is constantly placing more pressure on us as a club by his swipes at the game, umpires and opposition players this year. Blrg.
I think Clarko is taking swipes to try and take media pressure away from the list and place it on himself.
Our list is battling hard, no two ways about it, but it isn't completely shot. I think we need to hit the draft aggressively this year and maybe next, and start to build a more attacking gameplan as of right now.
Our list just doesn't have enough leg speed, or enough accuracy in kicking at the minute and I strongly believe in the AFL you need to be a master of at least one of these two to be up there come finals.
 

The Offerman

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Oct 8, 2016
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I think Clarko is taking swipes to try and take media pressure away from the list and place it on himself.
Our list is battling hard, no two ways about it, but it isn't completely shot. I think we need to hit the draft aggressively this year and maybe next, and start to build a more attacking gameplan as of right now.
Our list just doesn't have enough leg speed, or enough accuracy in kicking at the minute and I strongly believe in the AFL you need to be a master of at least one of these two to be up there come finals.
Instead of taking pot shots at other teams players or the umpires, both things he has absolutely no control over, he should be focused on the things he can control. His team selections, his tactics, his ideas. That deflection yesterday was awful
 

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