Has Clarkson 'done his time'?

[bzparkes]

Of course we are done from your perspective because you don’t like people challenging your stereotypical views.

I'm quite happy having my views being challenged but all you're trying to do is take the moral high-ground whilst dismissing the experiences of myself/friends as 'racist' because they don't validate your view of the world.

That's entirely on you.

You know nothing about me. You assume you know. You make sweeping statements about Aboriginal people that you have no idea about then you go and tell me that I have lived a sheltered life in regards to Aboriginal people which is probably the most naive comment on big footy this year.

You're right, I know nothing about you but you seem to assume you know everything about me and my friends.

What sweeping statements did I make? I related 2 stories of 2 of my mates growing up. 1 was a white boy growing up in an indigenous community and the other is indigenous himself.

Neither story was particularly positive and didn't give you the warm and fuzzier, so YOU decided those statements were 'generalisations' about an entire group of people because it challenged your perspective and you got offended.

Again, that's entirely on you and proves you incapable of any thinking that challenges your preconceived ideas.

I'm entirely aware that there are many indigenous people out there living lives much more successful and meaningful than myself, doing great things in the community, etc.

On the same side, there are many disadvantaged people in the communities, where drug and alcohol abuse is rife, sexual abuse is prevalent and domestic violence happens on a daily basis. It's only getting worse in remote communities and it was interesting to hear Senator Price's reasons for voting No to the Voice recently, due to said reasons.

It's not racist to raise that as a topic.

It is irresponsible to ignore it and divert attention because it makes you uncomfortable discussing it, however.

None of this has anything to do with Clarkson though, so this is the last I'll add to this particular line of conversation.

 

[HairyO]

Michael Long has an agenda in this. He’s no fan of Mrs Rioli.

Was he lying when he said Cyril doesnt talk to any of his family ?

Maybe he is no fan of Mrs Rioli because of the way she acted here and in other times when she has made a big fuss over something undeserving of a big fuss?

Is there a history of false accusations ?

Or maybe Michael Long doesnt know what he is talking about and doesnt know what racism is.

But folks on Big Footy sure do. And a snide comment on a pair of jeans is definitely worthy of the Human Rights Commission's time.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Was he lying when he said Cyril doesnt talk to any of his family ?

Maybe he is no fan of Mrs Rioli because of the way she acted here and in other times when she has made a big fuss over something undeserving of a big fuss?

Is there a history of false accusations ?

Or maybe Michael Long doesnt know what he is talking about and doesnt know what racism is.

But folks on Big Footy sure do. And a snide comment on a pair of jeans is definitely worthy of the Human Rights Commission's time.

Cyril does talk to his family.

 

[South of the Yarra]

I'm quite happy having my views being challenged but all you're trying to do is take the moral high-ground whilst dismissing the experiences of myself/friends as 'racist' because they don't validate your view of the world.

That's entirely on you.


You're right, I know nothing about you but you seem to assume you know everything about me and my friends.

What sweeping statements did I make? I related 2 stories of 2 of my mates growing up. 1 was a white boy growing up in an indigenous community and the other is indigenous himself.

Neither story was particularly positive and didn't give you the warm and fuzzier, so YOU decided those statements were 'generalisations' about an entire group of people because it challenged your perspective and you got offended.

Again, that's entirely on you and proves you incapable of any thinking that challenges your preconceived ideas.

I'm entirely aware that there are many indigenous people out there living lives much more successful and meaningful than myself, doing great things in the community, etc.

On the same side, there are many disadvantaged people in the communities, where drug and alcohol abuse is rife, sexual abuse is prevalent and domestic violence happens on a daily basis. It's only getting worse in remote communities and it was interesting to hear Senator Price's reasons for voting No to the Voice recently, due to said reasons.

It's not racist to raise that as a topic.

It is irresponsible to ignore it and divert attention because it makes you uncomfortable discussing it, however.

None of this has anything to do with Clarkson though, so this is the last I'll add to this particular line of conversation.

No I don’t need to have preconceived ideas. I have lived it.

 

[HairyO]

Cyril does talk to his family.

So Michael Long is a liar?

Anyone want to be bold and make that call? Or just skirt around it.

He gave an interview and was definitive. Wasnt being unclear at all. The family miss him.

Or when you say "the family" its one person or maybe 2 out of the dozens of aunts, uncles, cousins, etc who used to be really close ?

 

[South of the Yarra]

Or when you say "the family" its one person or maybe 2 out of the dozens of aunts, uncles, cousins, etc who used to be really close ?

Michael is a wonderful man who does great things for Aboriginal people. I can tell you for a fact that Cyril sees many of his family.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Was he lying when he said Cyril doesnt talk to any of his family ?

Maybe he is no fan of Mrs Rioli because of the way she acted here and in other times when she has made a big fuss over something undeserving of a big fuss?

Is there a history of false accusations ?

Or maybe Michael Long doesnt know what he is talking about and doesnt know what racism is.

But folks on Big Footy sure do. And a snide comment on a pair of jeans is definitely worthy of the Human Rights Commission's time.

Long knows what racism is, he’s also a member of the Rioli family who have issue with Shannyn.

 

[bzparkes]

No I don’t need to have preconceived ideas. I have lived it.

Fair enough.

Everyone has different experiences in life, which causes them to have a completely different view of the world than others.

Let's not forget that.

 

[Shane Heard]

Someone's upset he rejected the Bombers and they had no choice but to take Brad. lol

Try not to be an idiot all your life.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

If you had no part in bad things that happened to someone else, nor had any chance to stop bad things, why on earth would you feel any guilt?

This makes zero sense.

As I said, it's a form of empathy.

Seeing humans suffer or be treated poorly at the hands of other humans triggers feelings of shame and guilt for me. Definitely.

I care about other humans. And I care when my fellow humans are arseholes.


How far I take that guilt, and how much it impacts my life is obviously a different story.

 

[Consolaçao]

As I said, it's a form of empathy.

Seeing humans suffer or be treated poorly at the hands of other humans triggers feelings of shame and guilt for me. Definitely.

I care about other humans. And I care when my fellow humans are arseholes.


How far I take that guilt, and how much it impacts my life is obviously a different story.

Guilt implies a degree of individual responsibility and (therefore) a requirement to make amends, doesn't it? Empathy is something very different. You could empathise with a friend who's relative has just passed away, that's a very human thing to do, but nobody would ever say you had an obligation to make good the harm done to the person you're empathising with.

It's an important distinction.

What do you mean 'how far I take that guilt?' These are weasel words. If you truthfully and genuinely feel guilty, the only moral response is to 'make good' on the damage done. Maybe emptying your bank accounts and tithing a massive chunk of your future incomes to 'your victims'.

 

[naysayer]

Opinion doesnt make something fact.

The world seems to have forgotten this in the last 15 or 20 years.

When Cyril is estranged from a huge part of his family there is far more going on here.

So then why are you acting as if Michael Long's opinion on Kennett is definitive?

Cyril is not estranged from his family, he lives his family. Are you suggesting he's just some kind of deranged hermit who is intentionally alienating everyone?

Every attempt you make to suggest that he and his wife can't recognise racist behaviour coming from a man who has a long history of racist behaviour is going to make you look more and more like an apologist.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I

Guilt implies a degree of individual responsibility and (therefore) a requirement to make amends, doesn't it? Empathy is something very different. You could empathise with a friend who's relative has just passed away, that's a very human thing to do, but nobody would ever say you had an obligation to make good the harm done to the person you're empathising with.

It's an important distinction.

What do you mean 'how far I take that guilt?' These are weasel words. If you truthfully and genuinely feel guilty, the only moral response is to 'make good' on the damage done. Maybe emptying your bank accounts and tithing a massive chunk of your future incomes to 'your victims'.

I didn't say I am guilty. I said I feel some guilt.


And they're not weasel words. Everyone has their own position when it comes to their actions.

I'm not about to hand my house keys back to the Indigenous people that were here before me - but I am going to show them dignity, respect, try not to be an a-hole, support some charities and do my bit to prevent awful s**t from the past happening again.

Some people will think I'm a prick that isn't doing enough, others will think I'm a woke lefty do-gooder. Others may think it's a reasonable position.
Frankly, I'm probably not doing enough - but I have my own position that I'm prepared to live with. And I don't doubt that that position will continue to evolve over time.


I really don't know why people jump to the extremes all the time.[/I]

 

[HairyO]

So then why are you acting as if Michael Long's opinion on Kennett is definitive?

Cyril is not estranged from his family, he lives his family. Are you suggesting he's just some kind of deranged hermit who is intentionally alienating everyone?

Every attempt you make to suggest that he and his wife can't recognise racist behaviour coming from a man who has a long history of racist behaviour is going to make you look more and more like an apologist.

Its the opinion of his family. Not just an individual.

Every attempt you make to suggest it is racist makes you look like youre saying Michael Long doesnt know racism.

Easy to do huh ?

For those saying Cyril does speak to his family.... his wife's side only? Or also his side ?

 

[naysayer]

Its the opinion of his family. Not just an individual.

Every attempt you make to suggest it is racist makes you look like youre saying Michael Long doesnt know racism.

Easy to do huh ?

For those saying Cyril does speak to his family.... his wife's side only? Or also his side ?

I'm sure Michael Long knows about racism. But why would he know more than Cyril in this instance? Give us a single reason that isn't vague innuendo about his family.

By the way, Michael Long is not representative of Cyril's whole family, they don't even live in the same state. you can stop with that.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Plese enlighten us on which community in FNQ/NT was doing this. I am intrigued to find out. In regard to court decisions, Aboriginal families are having children removed from them and into care at a far higher rate than anyone else. You may have heard about one case but I suggest that you look at the statistics across the board and see how many Aboriginal families are losing kids. It is another Stolen Generation.

Victorian Aboriginal Community Managed Community Organisations and the Vic Government are doing some good work in tackling this terrible issue.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

North should sack him and move on. He can't control his temper and he has stepped out of line in a major way on multiple occasions.
He also never apologises properly for what he does, he denies it or comes up with an excuse.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

I know he hasn't been suspended or stood down for anything, but the fact remains that he has been out of the game for about 6 weeks or whatever it is.

If Clarkson is guilty of 'wrongdoing' but never actually faces the music in terms of an AFL punishment - would people be content that the 6 weeks he missed is punishment enough?

Or does missing weeks, without any acknowledgement of wrongdoing or at least 'unintended insensitivity' mean nothing?

Nah, 6 weeks is not long enough. Should be a 3 year ban .

 

[Engimal v3]

Exonerated by the AFL. His doubters should delete their accounts in shame.

 

[HairyO]

I'm sure Michael Long knows about racism. But why would he know more than Cyril in this instance? Give us a single reason that isn't vague innuendo about his family.

By the way, Michael Long is not representative of Cyril's whole family, they don't even live in the same state. you can stop with that.

We know for a fact Long suffered continued and obvious racial abuse throughout his career. We dont know about Cyril encountering any. It is far more open these days.

And I dare say if the only complaint taken to the HRC is about his wife's torn jeans he deserves ridicule for wasting an important commission's time.

As for Cyril's family I made the distinction between his side and his wife's side. A few in here claim to know all about the goings on in the Rioli family so maybe they can weigh in with their 1st person insights.

I assume they arent just big-noting themselves.

 

[Percel]

Sorry, not Karratha, Katherine. Wrong K.

Air Force?

 

[Percel]

Nah, 6 weeks is not long enough. Should be a 3 year ban .

no weeks, he’s clear….as is his conscience. Suggest you have a wee lie down and watch your lads on the telly.

Need to let the pent up aggression subside

 

[naysayer]

We know for a fact Long suffered continued and obvious racial abuse throughout his career. We dont know about Cyril encountering any. It is far more open these days.

And I dare say if the only complaint taken to the HRC is about his wife's torn jeans he deserves ridicule for wasting an important commission's time.

As for Cyril's family I made the distinction between his side and his wife's side. A few in here claim to know all about the goings on in the Rioli family so maybe they can weigh in with their 1st person insights.

I assume they arent just big-noting themselves.

Because Michael Long is an indigenous person who faced racial abuse throughout his career, he's better placed to discuss Kennett's comments than the indigenous people who actually heard them. Makes no sense mate. You don't know what has been taken to the human rights commission, and your attempt to discredit the Rioli's, and suggesting they be ridiculed is simply racist. You don't know these people, and yet you keep suggesting they're not sane enough or credible enough to know when they are being racially vilified. As if Cyril ended his career just for kicks.

This is a continuing theme in this thread. Most of what l read is a continuous stream of criticism and insinuations about indigenous australians, as individuals and as a people. Time to take a step back.

 

[HairyO]

Because Michael Long is an indigenous person who faced racial abuse throughout his career, he's better placed to discuss Kennett's comments than the indigenous people who actually heard them. Makes no sense mate. You don't know what has been taken to the human rights commission, and your attempt to discredit the Rioli's, and suggesting they be ridiculed is simply racist. You don't know these people, and yet you keep suggesting they're not sane enough or credible enough to know when they are being racially vilified. As if Cyril ended his career just for kicks.

Im suggesting anyone who thinks mocking a pair of ripped jeans as being racial vilification has serious issues and clearly has zero clue what actual vilification is.

Which is the point Long made.

 

[Shane Heard]

So then why are you acting as if Michael Long's opinion on Kennett is definitive?

Cyril is not estranged from his family, he lives his family. Are you suggesting he's just some kind of deranged hermit who is intentionally alienating everyone?

Every attempt you make to suggest that he and his wife can't recognise racist behaviour coming from a man who has a long history of racist behaviour is going to make you look more and more like an apologist.

Links to said Kennett racism behaviour?