Opinion Hawthorn - Clarkson - Fagan Racism Investigation

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Sanders said:
If your home life was significantly affecting your job performance, in normal situations, you’d be warned then sacked.
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I think a lot of larger organisations this would no longer be the case, especially if you were a high performer before. You would more likely find yourself directed to take some leave and support through an EAP to resolve the issue first.

The US probably a different story.

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Sanders said:
It could be seen that way, or just as likely a pre-emptive strike to guard against the possibility that a lack of knowledge & context becomes a problem

A family court judge has a very different view of society compared to say a sociology student. Not everyone brings the same perspective to every question
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That's fairly obvious. The point being though is if there is some acceptance now that there was truth to what was reported and now there is debate around context and perspective?
 

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MarcusP2 said:
I think a lot of larger organisations this would no longer be the case, especially if you were a high performer before. You would more likely find yourself directed to take some leave and support through an EAP to resolve the issue first.

The US probably a different story.

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app
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These aren’t high performers, they’re just under-performers

Football clubs try to help more that regular employers

WWT got Stengle a job, transport, a place to stay, all sorts of stuff.
 
Redline said:
That's fairly obvious. The point being though is if there is some acceptance now that there was truth to what was reported and now there is debate around context and perspective?
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I mean who wouldn’t want a kangaroo court?

And there has been nothing to suggest anyone outside HFC and the AFL has even seen the report. Certainly not the coaches

All the effort is in setting up the enquiry
 
The indigenous players involved have already lawyered up so this would seem likely to spill into the law courts and possible litigation and settlement claims?


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Mutineer said:
The indigenous players involved have already lawyered up so this would seem likely to spill into the law courts and possible litigation and settlement claims?


Leon Zwier | Partner | Arnold Bloch Leibler

Leon Zwier is head of Arnold Bloch Leibler's Dispute Resolution & Litigation and Reconstruction & Insolvency groups. Leon has also been extensively involved in large, complicated and difficult commercial disputes.
www.abl.com.au www.abl.com.au
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Here's hoping.

That would probably end up being the cleanest route. Handled by Professionals using established arbitration framework/protocols.

Skips any AFL run Circus step.
 
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Ramify said:
Here's hoping.

That would probably end up being the cleanest route. Handled by Professionals using established arbitration framework/protocols.

Skips any AFL ran Circus step.
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Normally the idea is to lever out a settlement before a hearing, but the reputational aspects make it hard to see how that happens

And if it goes to court it will be a blood bath
 
Sanders said:
It is their job to ensure a fair and appropriate process is setup to investigate their members. It could not be more relevant.

This isn’t even worth discussing, it’s that obvious.
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It really isn't. One of the themes of the review will be coaches/clubs overstepping the line of responsibility. They shouldn't have a seat at the table to influence where that line might be.
 

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Sanders said:
Normally the idea is to lever out a settlement before a hearing, but the reputational aspects make it hard to see how that happens

And if it goes to court it will be a blood bath
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I know. I just think its inevitable that this eventually lands in someone elses hands anyway.

Any suggestion as to what an AFL facilitated settlement looks like?
 
CrowsB4hoes said:
The indigenous parties aren't the ones under investigation
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Unless the panel is explicitly directed to find in their favour they are.
They fall under investigation as soon as a counter claim of denial is made, otherwise what's the point to any of this?You'd just sack the Coaches without bothering to investigate, and you'd get away with it.

That's not how it works.
 
Sanders said:
lol. Good luck holding that line.

I’m sure the claims won’t be looked at all, and save us all the tedium of the “yeah, but…”
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It’s not a fact finding mission. It’s about the circumstances that lead to a report being needed in the first place and to review its outcomes and decide where the AFL may need to intervene and make recommendations.
 
Sanders said:
These aren’t high performers, they’re just under-performers

Football clubs try to help more that regular employers

WWT got Stengle a job, transport, a place to stay, all sorts of stuff.
Click to expand...
It's very interesting you raise that example.

Footy clubs do look after their players. Get them jobs, accommodation, etc. But that's not what AFL clubs are. They aren't footy clubs anymore. They are employers in the sports entertainment industry.

I think this is a problem for the ex VFL clubs, that used to be "clubs" but aren't anymore.
 
Now another hurdle it seems..

Surely the players and their families knew when they made such strong accusations against Clarkson, Fagan and Burt's reputations and characters that was only just the start of what would follow?


Hawthorn racism investigation: More complications in probe​

With AFL still navigating the sensitivities of assembling a four-person panel to investigate the disturbing allegations at Hawthorn, another development could derail the whole process.
The First Nations families who have made allegations against ex-Hawthorn coaches have serious reservations about being interviewed as part of an independent investigation into the claims.
Five days on from the allegations that rocked the AFL the league is still navigating the sensitivities of assembling a four-person panel to investigate the claims that if proved could see ex-Hawks figures banned from the game.

The families involved want to drive change and force accountability for what they see as serious issues at Hawthorn, but believe they have already told Hawthorn review author Phil Egan and ABC journalist Russell Jackson their stories in graphic detail.

The report handed to the AFL has been corroborated in part by a Hawthorn assistant coach.

On Monday the AFL Coaches Association also demanded the league put a former senior coach or football official on the four-person panel to provide context for any conversations between coaches and players.
The league would be aware if it does not find a compromise position which can thoroughly investigate the accusations it is likely to have a lengthy and costly postscript in court.
The AFL, which has retained its own lawyer in Peter Gordon, is working with all parties including the families’ lawyer Leon Zwier on the makeup of that panel.
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Mutineer said:
Surely the players and their families knew when they made such strong accusations against Clarkson, Fagan and Burt's reputations and characters that was only just the start of what would follow?
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The families involved want to drive change and force accountability for what they see as serious issues at Hawthorn, but believe they have already told Hawthorn review author Phil Egan and ABC journalist Russell Jackson their stories in graphic detail.

Indeed. Yes, they have told their stories, and in some circumstances that might be enough to "drive change". But this goes beyond that, to serious and specific allegations against individuals. And those individuals have a right to respond, and the allegations must be tested. They can't be forced to cooperate with any inquiry, but one way or another - AFL inquiry or in court - an inquiry will happen. And in particular I don't think you can say on the one hand that you don't want to be hauled through an AFL inquiry, and on the other hand imply that a public court case is your alternative position.
 
arrowman said:
The families involved want to drive change and force accountability for what they see as serious issues at Hawthorn, but believe they have already told Hawthorn review author Phil Egan and ABC journalist Russell Jackson their stories in graphic detail.

Indeed. Yes, they have told their stories, and in some circumstances that might be enough to "drive change". But this goes beyond that, to serious and specific allegations against individuals. And those individuals have a right to respond, and the allegations must be tested. They can't be forced to cooperate with any inquiry, but one way or another - AFL inquiry or in court - an inquiry will happen. And in particular I don't think you can say on the one hand that you don't want to be hauled through an AFL inquiry, and on the other hand imply that a public court case is your alternative position.
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Chris Fagan has hired top legal help in his bid to clear his name after Hawthorn racism bombshell​

Chris Fagan has hired top legal help in a bid to clear his name in the Hawthorn racism bombshell.
Brisbane coach Chris Fagan has hired a top legal team in a bid to clear his name in the Hawthorn racism bombshell.
Fagan and Clarkson were allegedly named in Hawthorn’s review of its treatment of First Nations players.

Reports of their alleged interactions have been damning and the AFL is working to establish a panel to investigate the claims.

Fagan and Clarkson have vehemently denied any wrongdoing.

Fagan has enlisted Clayton Utz lawyers and barristers Liam Kelly KC and David Turner to act on his behalf in the proposed investigation.

“I have retained Clayton Utz lawyers together with barristers Liam Kelly KC and David Turner to act on my behalf in relation to the proposed forthcoming investigation by the AFL,” Fagan said in a statement.

“I confirm, as I said in my earlier statement, that I deny, categorically, the allegations of wrongdoing by me in relation to First Nations players at the Hawthorn Football Club, and that I intend to defend myself.

“I also confirm my intention to participate fully in any investigative process, provided that it is independent, fair and impartial, and respects my right to be heard.

“I await further information from the AFL.”
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