NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread.
Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the report button, please and thank you.

If you feel upset or need to talk you can call either Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 or Lifeline on 13 11 14 at any time.

- Crisis support for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders 13YARN (13 92 76) 13YARN - Call 13 92 76 | 24 /7

This is a serious topic, please treat it as such.

Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[JackOutback]

I served overseas and the military for over 25 years. I have travelled extensively. I also have Indigenous family. If people think Australia is a racist country you need to get out more. Australia is one of the most tolerant countries in the world and I am tired of people putting it down

Australia is a racist nation and many of its institutions are built on racism. Pointing to other countries' racism doesn't change that. I don't absolve my children of wrongdoing because 'all the other kids were doing it' and I don't apply such facile logic to complex issues at a national level.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Wouldn't that be a regressive step and nothing but "victim blaming"?

Why wouldn't the clubs stop employing and/or tolerating racists and establish an indigenous player program staffed by culturally aware people, designed to attract indigenous players with great support and well designed programs?

The AFL could make expenditure on such programs exempt for the hard and soft caps, if they are not already.

Times like today are times to make change for the better.
This report is looking backward true, there may be retribution to be had, but any outcomes should be forward looking.

Collingwood despite whatever their past record, have invited former players back to help them make things better for the next generation of indigenous players and several have accepted.


I won't be railing against hawthorn alone,
Australia as a whole bears the responsibility for the past.
We have a chance to make it better, we should use it.

There is nothing that can ever be done about the past. We need to do better now by learning from the past. The past is history and continually raising it is half the problem.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I think after the failure of the COllingwood and now Hawthorn "independent" investigations, we can do away with such charades as the cover-ups they're designed to be.

What are you talking about a failure?

The report has been tabled, they’ve declared that there’s alarming allegations and they’ve handed it to the AFL integrity dept to investigate further.

Are you calling it a failure because they haven’t just decided to board up the doors?

 

[jenny61_99]

Essendon FC was punished by the AFL well before players were found guilty by WADA.

Essendon was not punished for taking a banned substance. The club was punished for governance failings and bringing the game into disrepute. Both are in Hawthorns wheelhouse right now.

Essendon lost draft picks, 2 million fine and ban from finals BEFORE players were found guilty. Let that sink in.

Essendon were punished early by the AFL in hopes of ASADA saying they’d already been punished, that’ll do. It didn’t work.

 

[ImaBeliever!]

Clarko is responsible for requesting it in the first place, but he isn't responsible for it affecting one person more than another. That bet about the white player I would taken given what is already known publically that he requested players to do and his one track mindedness. Regardless so many IFs it is sad the race card has been played at the drop of hat.

‘Race card’. The typical refrain of the denialists. So easy to minimise racism, so predictable, I mean white people are far better judges of what constitutes racism than the victims themselves, am I right? And you expect me to believe the ABC wouldn’t report on multiple instances of the same thing (abortion demands) especially if it involved non-Indigenous players? Looks like you got caught in your own trap.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Why are coaches having these discussions at all?

These matters should be discussed with a club doctor or a welfare manager with relevant qualifications only.

100% - which is why if there was a formal record of it either a) it would be picked up or b) the coaches were in breach of a club/AFL policy. I suppose I'm getting at the point that there needs to be good governance and I'm not there was any governance around this in place or that was even an AFL directive about it.

 

[jenny61_99]

Just sick of the narrative that we're some incredibly racist country when we aren't even remotely as bad as the vast majority of the rest of the world.

Have you read Eddie’s book? Yeah, we are.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Hopefully North can have their new coach locked in by the time the trade period starts.

This definitely puts a twist on the Darcy Tucker and Griffin Logue trade requests

 

[Soapy V]

Australia is a racist nation and many of its institutions are built on racism. Pointing to other countries' racism doesn't change that. I don't absolve my children of wrongdoing because 'all the other kids were doing it' and I don't apply such facile logic to complex issues at a national level.

Bullshit. Don't confuse people who are racist with a nation being racist

 

[catscratchfever]

Travelled overseas much?

I have, and of all the countries I’ve visited (about 20 or so) Australia is easily the most racist imo.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Perhaps a naive question, and I mean absolutely no offence, but I'm genuinely curious- how much of this was systematic racism? Literally everything, every article, every comment is about how this was overt, disgusting racism....however, wasnt the external review based solely on the treatment of first nations players? So while it reads like it was targeted treatment of only first nations players, that's what the review was looking into. It wasn't looking into how all draftees/players were treated.

I wonder if it was just widespread s**t bloke/win at all costs culture or if it was actually only the first nations boys who copped it? It's obviously horrible either way, and absolutely should never have occurred - I'd just be curious to know how many players were impacted and if it was only/mainly indigenous players.

I remember when they drafted Buddy, he was considered a bit of a "problem kid" and there were rumours going around at the time that the Hawks had minders for him. They were pretty much keeping him controlled with a heavy hand to keep him out of trouble.

Perhaps they tried similar tactics with other "problem kids" and crossed the line when it wasn't working for them.

 

[fnerd]

If these allegations ring true , the AFL would have to come down pretty hard on the hawthorn football club and not just those involved surely.

Obviously all this constant corporate wank speak in response to these issues we’ve seen from the AFL and clubs time and time again is not enough?

The message clearly isn’t getting through.
Winning and profits trump EVERYTHING in this league.

Throw the book at them and then some ,remember the hawthorn football club has profited immensely during the time in question ,so they should be hung out to dry for it aswell.

Only then we might start to see some genuine attempt at genuine change, even if I suspect most of it will be at first just arse covering due to potential profits lost, the message will eventually get through, it has to

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Essendon were punished early by the AFL in hopes of ASADA saying they’d already been punished, that’ll do. It didn’t work.

yeah thats good speculation.

stick to facts.

 

[gouki88]

Bullshit. Don't confuse people who are racist with a nation being racist

Yeah, this nation only has a racially unequal government, racist policing, a racist justice system, and racist public policies. Besides that, not racist.

 

[gordo2016]

Just sick of the narrative that we're some incredibly racist country when we aren't even remotely as bad as the vast majority of the rest of the world.

I don't know whether it is an incredibly racist country or not, but it is more prevalent than people think it is. I taught in Indigenous communities for 13 years in WA and NT and it would make your stomach turn if you saw and heard the way some First Nations people are treated. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but racism in Australia is definitely alive and well.

 

[owen87]

It's as bad as anything that's been alleged in AFL history, but it has no link to Hawthorns on-field performance. A sanction relating to that would be mind-boggling.

Not really, this post explains it well. Similar to how in Tennis they penalise the player (e.g. Serena Williams) for something their coach does mid-game, because it's the only way there's a meaningful impact.

Draft sanctions are really the only thing that hurts clubs long term. Financial penalties look bad, but then clubs just get the money back from the AFL if they in financial trouble. Coach suspensions hurt for the short term.

Miss 3 drafts, and that sets you back long term. Just ask the Crows.

 

[catscratchfever]

Bullshit. Don't confuse people who are racist with a nation being racist

No confusion here. I’ve never experienced the level of racism in Australia anywhere else in the world. We are very good at sweeping it (and our extreme corruption) underneath the carpet.

 

[Lingsface]

How could you do a report on indigenous people at Hawthorn and not interview Burgoyne?

Was it prior to him being there?

 

[gouki88]

Just sick of the narrative that we're some incredibly racist country when we aren't even remotely as bad as the vast majority of the rest of the world.

1) BS
2) Guess that means we shouldn't bother doing anything then ay?

 

[geoffjennings79]

Why at 3pm have North still not said anything? This is really poor. They need to get a statement out at least.

Clarkson is a Hawthorn employee until 31 October.

What would North making a statement achieve, not much they can say, maybe "we will await further details/happened while coach at another club/will make further comment once AFL investigation is complete"? They're in an invidious position, not of their doing.

 

[oak79]

Surely Hawthorn FC cant play for premiership points next year.

Who are you punishing? Players that had nothing to do with this scandal. Coaches that had nothing to do with the scandal

The guys the made the alleged comments work at other clubs. Any punishment needs to be directed at the individuals involved - not Hawthorn, unless there's proof there was some club policy / direction.

 

[bigfarter]

Didn't say that. Look at your own mindset before commenting

Then what is it you are saying? You're the second person on this thread to respond to notions of Australia being a racist country with "Other countries are more racist." I agree other countries also have issues with racism but what does that have to do with Australia and it's issues with racism? It's like child logic where it's okay to do something bad because someone else was doing it. If that isn't your point then I'm honestly not sure what point you are making?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If these allegations ring true , the AFL would have to come down pretty hard on the hawthorn football club and not just those involved surely.

Obviously all this constant corporate wank speak in response to these issues we’ve seen from the AFL and clubs time and time again is not enough?

The message clearly isn’t getting through.
Winning and profits trump EVERYTHING in this league.

Throw the book at them and then some ,remember the hawthorn football club has profited immensely during the time in question ,so they should be hung out to dry for it aswell.

Only then we might start to see some genuine attempt at genuine change, even if I suspect most of it will be at first just arse covering due to potential profits lost, the message will eventually get through, it has to

If they came down hard on Hawthorn Football club, why would any other club even consider doing a similar review on its own?

Surely its about improving rather than punishment.

 

[Verdun]

I served overseas and the military for over 25 years. I have travelled extensively. I also have Indigenous family. If people think Australia is a racist country you need to get out more. Australia is one of the most tolerant countries in the world and I am tired of people putting it down

Pointing out that racism exists in Australia is not 'putting it down', it is a strength to be able point out something that is wrong.

It is also wrong to get all defensive and offended when racism is pointed out.

 

[pugsville]

The Players Association should have a look at itself. And player agents for that matter. Essendon Drug thing, Adelaide camp, This. Why are players opt going to the people who are meant to be looking out for their interests?

They should be thinking long and hard about why when these things happen they are not seen by the players as the first port of call to get advice and support/

Players are drafted while very young, and engaged in occupation where the employer calls the shots, make all sorts of demands,they are vulnerable. They move interstate isolated form family friends , and support network, where their private life/habits, diet, health is viewed as an justified employer concern. That being part of employee group is seen as central. It;s a situation rife for abuse.

Player Association. Player Agents. THey shoudl have hard look and try a lot harder to be better at representatiing their player interests, they got to work harder at having players trust and really checking in properly with the vulnerable.