Herald Sun top 25 players of the past 50 years

[Seeds]

Don't know when you started watching footy, but nobody could dominate a game like GAS. One year, 1993 iirc, the great Wayne Carey awarded GAS with his POTY on a footy show, and commented that there's Gary Ablett, then you've got the rest of us. He regularly amassed > 20 disposals weekly as a FF.
When GAS finally was stationed at FF, he kicked in 3 consecutive years, over 120 goals.
I have seen him kick 14 goals off a wing against Richmond.
I have seen him kick 14 goals against Essendon as a HFF, having 4 opponents including Hirdy, in a losing team. Sheedy said as long as we kick more than Ablett, we'll win.
Thousands of Non Geelong people would flock to the G to watch Ablett's mastery. That never happens now for any player, and in my supporting time (55 years), it's never happened before or since.
GAS was the total package- spectacular mark, 60 m goals off both feet, bumps and tackles that put players in hospital, lightning quick acceleration.
GAJ is a beautiful player to watch, possibly at his best, the best mid we have seen, but he has limitations marking and tackling. And he himself says he is several rungs below his dad.

The only downside for ablett senior is he never built up the stamina to run all day through the midfield like junior. Sure he could still play and dominate the midfield purely due to his capacity to win the contest. But ablett junior could just make that many more contests. The improvement in Ablett junior from 06 to 07 was staggering and pretty much due to his improved running ability. It makes me wonder how good senior could of been if he built up the same stamina as he blows junior away in almost every other feature of the game except pehaps passing accuracy.

 

[Pessimistic]

Now Sam Mitchell’s career is over I’m not sure he is actually in the 25, he seems to be close, but I think he benefits from the recency phenomenon, although he also didn’t get the ‘in career’ plaudits that junior, Judd or buddy got

There’s four hawks in there already, Sam would be in our all time 22 but top five? Debatable. Dipper, Platten, Knights, Ayres, Crawford, Jarman all in the discussion

If freaky ability gets you in this, Jarman has to be in the discussion if buddy is

 

[Snake_Baker]

Now Sam Mitchell’s career is over I’m not sure he is actually in the 25, he seems to be close, but I think he benefits from the recency phenomenon, although he also didn’t get the ‘in career’ plaudits that junior, Judd or buddy got

There’s four hawks in there already, Sam would be in our all time 22 but top five? Debatable. Dipper, Platten, Knights, Ayres, Crawford, Jarman all in the discussion

If freaky ability gets you in this, Jarman has to be in the discussion if buddy is

You would have a lot more credibility if you talked about more than just one team in any "Best 25" discussion.

 

[AjsGuns]

1. Gary Ablett Sr.
2. Wayne Carey
3. Leigh Matthews
4. Gary Ablett Jnr
5. Tony Lockett
6. Greg Williams
7. Jason Dunstall
8. Kevin Bartlett
9. Peter Hudson
10. Lance Franklin
11. Chris Judd
12. James Hird (scandal tainted him as a player, was a marginally better player than Voss IMO, but Voss the clearly better leader/captain so I would choose Voss in a "who would you prefer" thread).
13. Michael Voss
14. Royce Hart
15. Ian Stewart
16. Stephen Silvangi
17. Simon Madden
18. Bruce Doull
19. Alex Jesaulenko
20. Adam Goodes
21. Nathan Buckley
22. Peter Matera
23. Mark Ricciuto
24. Ben Cousins
25. Malcom Blight

Top 6 was pretty easy, after that it became much harder. 20-25 could be argued for a bunch of players. I omitted Dangerfield, Fyfe and Martin as their careers are not over yet, but could see all 3 potentially pushing top 25 (especially Danger/Fyfe). Sticks, Dermie, Mcleod, Rob Harvey and Doug Hawkins probably my next 5. Biggest omission probably Scarlett, most would have him top 25 I reckon.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Insert from: N.Reiwoldt
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Nah

 

[bombersfan4000]

Jakovich and Scarlett are the kind of feel-good selections that conveniently help circumvent criticisms which plague some of the most notable awards in the game. I know I'd take Peter Matera or Jimmy Bartel over either of them.

Jackovich for the majority of his career was the only player that consistently flogged Carey! Until his knee surgeries! That’s when Carey ran off him!
Over his career he would easily be in the top 5 back men in vfl/afl history

But your right about maters! Highly underrated

 

[Blind Turn]

1. Gary Ablett Sr.
2. Wayne Carey
3. Leigh Matthews
4. Gary Ablett Jnr
5. Tony Lockett
6. Greg Williams
7. Jason Dunstall
8. Kevin Bartlett
9. Peter Hudson
10. Lance Franklin
11. Chris Judd
12. James Hird (scandal tainted him as a player, was a marginally better player than Voss IMO, but Voss the clearly better leader/captain so I would choose Voss in a "who would you prefer" thread).
13. Michael Voss
14. Royce Hart
15. Ian Stewart
16. Stephen Silvangi
17. Simon Madden
18. Bruce Doull
19. Alex Jesaulenko
20. Adam Goodes
21. Nathan Buckley
22. Peter Matera
23. Mark Ricciuto
24. Ben Cousins
25. Malcom Blight

Top 6 was pretty easy, after that it became much harder. 20-25 could be argued for a bunch of players. I omitted Dangerfield, Fyfe and Martin as their careers are not over yet, but could see all 3 potentially pushing top 25 (especially Danger/Fyfe). Sticks, Dermie, Mcleod, Rob Harvey and Doug Hawkins probably my next 5. Biggest omission probably Scarlett, most would have him top 25 I reckon.

Your assessment of the best players is sound but this list is another example of how so many underrate Tim Watson’s career.

If you start with the fact that many at Essendon place him above Madden (my all time favourite player), that he was considered the best mid in the comp in the early to mid 80s, and that he was a match-winning excitement machine, I find it amazing that he isn’t even in your reckoning along with Dougie.

It’s just a general observation and not a specific criticism of your list.

 

[biggiemediums]

Some good lists here...

BUT, one thing that pisses me off is how much bias is shown against Buckley & Ricciuto. You really can't have them that far behind Hird and Voss, if at all. Honestly all 4 of them are pretty well in the exact same stratosphere.

Ricciuto is even more disrespected than Bucks as he's often not even talked about, (Hird-Buckley-Voss,) is a common comparison. It's just pure crap.

 

[Maylandsman]

Jackovich for the majority of his career was the only player that consistently flogged Carey! Until his knee surgeries! That’s when Carey ran off him!
Over his career he would easily be in the top 5 back men in vfl/afl history

But your right about maters! Highly underrated

Jakovich was a beast for the eagles. Their backline was talent laden with mckintosh, McKenna, worsfold, Brennan and jakovich.

 

[bombersfan4000]

Jakovich was a beast for the eagles. Their backline was talent laden with mckintosh, McKenna, worsfold, Brennan and jakovich.

Mackintosh was a beast!
He was reportedly the strongest and second fastest on the Eagles list

 

[Maylandsman]

Mackintosh was a beast!
He was reportedly the strongest and second fastest on the Eagles list

Agree, very underrated. Wayne Carey said he was the strongest bloke he played against. And yes he was quick off the mark.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Now Sam Mitchell’s career is over I’m not sure he is actually in the 25, he seems to be close, but I think he benefits from the recency phenomenon, although he also didn’t get the ‘in career’ plaudits that junior, Judd or buddy got

There’s four hawks in there already, Sam would be in our all time 22 but top five? Debatable. Dipper, Platten, Knights, Ayres, Crawford, Jarman all in the discussion

If freaky ability gets you in this, Jarman has to be in the discussion if buddy is

And you'd have to put Daicos ahead of Jarman.

 

[Pessimistic]

And you'd have to put Daicos ahead of Jarman.

Didn’t see as much of Daicos as Jarman. There’s a really good package of Jarman stuff linked in here somewhere. It’s pretty impressive

 

[Pessimistic]

You would have a lot more credibility if you talked about more than just one team in any "Best 25" discussion.

I don’t need your endorsement.

I haven’t watched as much of other teams so I’m more honest than most in limiting my commentary

My point was Sam suddenly got all this kudos yet was constantly talked down most of his career. There’s bias both ways in the public commentary

 

[Snake_Baker]

I don’t need your endorsement.

Clearly not, if you don't ever wish to evolve beyond a blinkered Hawthorn fanboy.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Didn’t see as much of Daicos as Jarman. There’s a really good package of Jarman stuff linked in here somewhere. It’s pretty impressive

Daicos had him covered, was a goal kicking machine.

 

[Pessimistic]

Clearly not, if you don't ever wish to evolve beyond a blinkered Hawthorn fanboy.

When I’m suggesting Sam Mitchell shouldn’t be in the 25, I’m not sure why I’ve rattled your cage for being one eyed

 

[Snake_Baker]

Daicos had him covered, was a goal kicking machine.

Agree, and I saw both.

Daicos was a lot more consistent. Jarman went through the first part of his career being referred to as a "Rolls Royce with the handbrake on"

 

[Pessimistic]

Daicos had him covered, was a goal kicking machine.

OK, if you read my post I’m saying if freakish players like buddy are in, players like Jarman should be. You can say Daicos also if you like

Jarman2Dunstall was as close to a gimme as you’d ever see. And then Jars did his best work at Adelaide

 

[Pessimistic]

Agree, and I saw both.

Daicos was a lot more consistent. Jarman went through the first part of his career being referred to as a "Rolls Royce with the handbrake on"

There’s all sorts of snipes on Jarman. One was he was lazy yet he racked up tackles well before it was fashionable

Good on you for bringing up scuttlebut though. I’m not going to do the same for your man, didn’t see too much of him to be honest

As I said Jarman2Dunstall,was so much of a constant (consistent) you could set your watch by it

 

[AjsGuns]

Your assessment of the best players is sound but this list is another example of how so many underrate Tim Watson’s career.

If you start with the fact that many at Essendon place him above Madden (my all time favourite player), that he was considered the best mid in the comp in the early to mid 80s, and that he was a match-winning excitement machine, I find it amazing that he isn’t even in your reckoning along with Dougie.

It’s just a general observation and not a specific criticism of your list.

Watson would be in that 25-30 range for me, made the list pretty quickly. Could also put Quinlan there who I also forgot. Really there are so many great players, unfortunately can't fit them all in!

 

[Pessimistic]

Clearly not, if you don't ever wish to evolve beyond a blinkered Hawthorn fanboy.

What would be the point of that anyway? Hawks is all I need

 

[Snake_Baker]

There’s all sorts of snipes on Jarman.

It's not a "snipe" mate, it's a direct quote about Jarman from his time at Hawthorn. He arrived in great fanfare and was inconsistent during his time, won his Hawthorn B&F when Hawthorn was rubbish (15th), and Dunstall was waning (66 goals).

Daicos, on the other hand, kicked 76 goals in his 3rd season of footy, won Copeland Trophy's as a centreman, and then became a devastating 97 goal mid sized forward in a premiership year. He was an excellent player throughout all of his career, and was only ever stifled by injury.

One was he was lazy yet he racked up tackles well before it was fashionable

He racked up 0.75 tackles a game over the course of his career.

The staggering stat is that he amassed 102 free kicks and 274 frees against during his time at hawthorn.

 

[Back One Out]

It makes me wonder how good Ablett senior could of been if he built up the same stamina as he blows junior away in almost every other feature of the game except pehaps passing accuracy.

Eh? Ablett senior was the player he was because of all those fast twitch muscle fibres. He was the most explosive athlete in the game. If he'd trimmed off some of that muscle mass and built up his endurance to play in the midfield then he wouldn't have been the same player.

He'd always played as a wingman/HFF prior to becoming a permanent forward. i.e out in space, making full use of his pace, so I'm not sure he would've read the play as well the champion on-ballers such as Williams, Bradley, Platten, Couch, etc

 

[Pessimistic]

It's not a "snipe" mate, it's a direct quote about Jarman from his time at Hawthorn. He arrived in great fanfare and was inconsistent during his time, won his Hawthorn B&F when Hawthorn was rubbish (15th), and Dunstall was waning (66 goals).

Daicos, on the other hand, kicked 76 goals in his 3rd season of footy, won Copeland Trophy's as a centreman, and then became a devastating 97 goal mid sized forward in a premiership year. He was an excellent player throughout all of his career, and was only ever stifled by injury.

Yet in this very thread, people say Lockett was the greatest because he played in ‘rubbish sides’ yet now it’s an argument against Jarman/Dunstall

You’ll agree Jarman had at least two elite seasons?

Just to recap. I commented that if players with freakish players like buddy are included, other equally freaky players like Jarman should be too

Then you said Daicos should be there but we’ll ahead of Jarman

I didn’t dispute that just put forward the case for Jarman, who to be honest gutted me when he left.

You then re asserted your Daicos claim but tried to raise the inconsistent Jarman myth

I said that myth was overstated maybe some people wanted more from him, but his career stands scrutiny