Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[rgauci]

Do you get off on slagging your own team? Your posts are pretty pathetic and immature tbh.
If Frederick plays instead of Emmett we win.

Frederick and Cox.

 

[Raz]

Yeah, it's not a binary though.

It's not bomb it long OR handball heavy. There's lowering the eyes, there's kicking to advantage, there is biting off the short diagonal kick into the corridor, there is switching to the fat side, there is kicking to space or down the line for territory and a reset. Empowering your players to make decisions and take responsibility. Handball to advantage is one thing, but we have definitely erred on players handballing under pressure to avoid taking on the kick we needed this season. The issue with over handball is it's not to advantage, you can end up kicking under pressure with a dump kick, which is no better than a long bomb.

It's about getting the balance right. We have the highest handball to kick ratio in the comp (hint: it's often to a player under the same or more pressure). We don't have the ratio right at the moment, and J-lo admitted that after the game on Friday.

I think a good tell re: our team footskills is Schultz. He looks not on the same level of the rest of the Collingwood team when it comes to footskills, yet at freo he was average to fine. To me Young, Clarke, Ryan and Chapman are our standouts, and until we get better kicks in the side, handball and pressure seems to be what we are banking on to win.

It doesn't cut it against the top teams. I don't think a ruck and midfield of Darcy, Fyfe, Brayshaw, Serong, Johnson have the footskills to consistently kick to a forwards advantage. I think it may be time to free up Young to play a more attacking role, and swing Brayshaw or Johnson into the defensive mid role. And I'm starting to think if Fyfe can't kick, he might be cooked.

Sadly you should read the posts on this forum. so many say that the ball should just be kicked long into forward 50 straight from centre every time. That is Kicking in HOPE. not kicking to a target.

Heck i remember when i was 12 being taught by coaches to just kick it long , someone will get it! and it didnt change a lot over the coming years. Watching football . coaching football. i saw so many people beleive that just kciking it forward as soon as you get it is the bet football.

So some see the style as over handballing i understand the thougths of overuse as it not currently working 100%. But you are right they need to kick as well. but they should only kick to a guaranteed mark, not a pack and hope for a flyer.

AFL has moved on from the old days of big packs being soared over or crashed through (yes still happens at times , but not as often as it did in the past) most clubs are now possession focused. Keep the ball off the oppistion

So yes do that with kicks, do it with handballs.

 

[oldgoat]

My point was Hardwick was an outlier. Most coaches achieve consistency and success much earlier. McCrae won a premiership in his second year, Beveridge in his second year, Roos in his third year, Clarkson in his fourth, Simpson and Goodwin in their fifth (after making it much deeper in prior years than Longmuir has)

Why is Longmuir taking so long?

Most coaches dont win premierships.
Six current coaches have won premierships.
John Longmire won a premiership in his third year as coach at Sydney.
He hasnt won another for 11 years.
Good thing they didnt give him the chop?
What does all this mean?
Nothing!
Same as "why is Longmuir taking so long?"

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I think you can't have your cake and eat it too. We over handball at times absolutely but the guys are still figuring the balance out. I think they are being coached to control the ball and go to far with it sometimes.

Now if you want JL to get them to play with more freedom you need to be honest and say what you think of the smaller transitioning forwards because I query your objectivity if you don't think they are bottom 4 in the league at best and I'd argue more like the worst in comp.

I think JL knows we don't have the cattle to play as fast as other team because our forwards can't win contests and/or can't make good decisions consistently. And when I say fast I mean the Pies/Richmond chaos type fast, we can go fast on rebound but we still want to control the ball. I think it's not a coincidence we are keen for Baker and for that exact role.

So if you want more speed and chaos, be honest with you opinion on the forwards and let me know of you think they can pull it off. I personally don't think many of them can win a good number of 1v1s and I think a couple struggle to win 1v0 at the moment.

 

[Dockeroo]

The one place a quick long kick inside 50 is a no-brainer is from centre square bounces. The AFL literally brought in the 6-6-6 rule for this exact reason. There are 6 one on ones in each half of the ground in the immediate few seconds after a centre bounce.
All of the good teams in the comp are getting that ball into the forward line as quickly as possible in these scenarios.
Of course our forwards are not hectic, as snuff points out. But don’t tell me that jackson and Treacy can’t at the VERY least bring the ball to ground in a 6-6-6 situation if the ball is pumped in long and early after a centre square bounce?
We have guys like Switta, Frederick and co at their feet that yeah, are not best in comp or anything, but they aren’t THAT bad. Even amiss is dangerous at ground level.
Even Emmett is a scrapper. His problem is he has no class with ball in hand.
The worst of the smalls right now is Sonny. The guy is so Cooked it’s not even funny. He can’t run any more for f**ks sake! He simply cannot play any more. As bad as emmett is, he can actually move at the very least.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

The one place a quick long kick inside 50 is a no-brainer is from centre square bounces. The AFL literally brought in the 6-6-6 rule for this exact reason. There are 6 one on ones in each half of the ground in the immediate few seconds after a centre bounce.
All of the good teams in the comp are getting that ball into the forward line as quickly as possible in these scenarios.
Of course our forwards are not hectic, as snuff points out. But don’t tell me that jackson and Treacy can’t at the VERY least bring the ball to ground in a 6-6-6 situation if the ball is pumped in long and early after a centre square bounce?
We have guys like Switta, Frederick and co at their feet that yeah, are not best in comp or anything, but they aren’t THAT bad. Even amiss is dangerous at ground level.
Even Emmett is a scrapper. His problem is he has no class with ball in hand.
The worst of the smalls right now is Sonny. The guy is so Cooked it’s not even funny. He can’t run any more for f**ks sake! He simply cannot play any more. As bad as emmett is, he can actually move at the very least.

Do we not move it into the forwardline quick from a centre clearance, I don't remember too many instances of "stuffing around with it?" Its an interesting point though and I'll try to watch for it next game

 

[DocT]

Most coaches dont win premierships.
Six current coaches have won premierships.
John Longmire won a premiership in his third year as coach at Sydney.
He hasnt won another for 11 years.
Good thing they didnt give him the chop?
What does all this mean?
Nothing!
Same as "why is Longmuir taking so long?"

You want to see development. You want hope. You want progress. Five years is long enough to demonstrate that. If you can't sell your vision by then it is highly unlikely that you have a vision that is going to take you to the top.

 

[Dockeroo]

Do we not move it into the forwardline quick from a centre clearance, I don't remember too many instances of "stuffing around with it?" Its an interesting point though and I'll try to watch for it next game

I feel we end up going backwards and to the side a bit from a lot of those clearances we win. I definitely think the ruckmen are under orders not to kick it in long as LJ and Darcy will pass it off even if in the clear almost all the time.
One issue is we don’t have any mid with a massive boot. Serong and AB are 45m kicks, sharp is a long kick but he doesn’t go inside much.
I wonder if they have ever considered throwing Clark into the odd centre bounce to try something different? He would very much suit the run and gun style we try to adopt out of there

 

[sumavich]

Young has a massive boot

 

[Freomaniac]

The premiership coach with the longest lead time until premiership I can think of was Damien Hardwick, and even he got Richmond into finals on the regular from his fourth year onwards. If Longmuir can’t make finals this year what hope does he have?

Hardwick made finals in his 4th, 5th and 6th year before missing in his 7th (2016). However he played three finals in those years before 2016 and lost all 3 of them. In two of those games, his team was the higher team on the ladder (5th plays 8th). If we make finals this year, JL will have played the same amount of finals as Hardwick with one less year. Even if we don’t make finals this year, we’ve already won more finals under JL than Hardwick did in his first 7 years

Geelongs 2000-2009 era is Scarily Similar to Richmonds 2010-9 era.

Geelong had Mark Bomber thompson in 2000. Cats made finals in 2000, didnt make finals in 2001-3. Made finals in 2004-5, missed out on finals in 2006, won flag in 2007, ended a long standing drought beating a side from South Ausralia in a grand final in Port, choked in 2008 where they were the favourites and won another flag in 2009.

Tigers had Damien Hardwick in 2010. Didnt make finals in 2010-12, made finals in 2013-5, missed out on finals in 2016. won a flag in 2017, ended a long standing premiership drought beating a side from south australia in adelaide, chokes in 2018 as the premiership favmourites, won another flag in 2019.

 

[Quazar2]

I'm coming into bat for Justin. Not that he needs nor probably cares individually for my help!

I acknowledge things are far from perfect (what in life ever is..!?), well except maybe Curt Hennig, but he was also mortal, like the rest of us... and the "handball happy" stuff is overkill. I think even Justin knows this. ANDDDDDDDD we can't score, our ragtag forward line isn't up to scratch, Walters is over the hill (probably) and...yadayadayada!

But guess what, so is the criticism of him and his coaching and the excessive almost...cry-baby stuff over not being successful and in finals. For a start Justin had to manage his newly appointed team in his first ever outing during unprecedented weirdness called COVID and whilst he spent time in the hubble bubble toil and trouble galvanising his playing group and getting to know them and implementing defensive strategies and whatnots, West Coke off just a 2 year Premiership-previous victory were moaning like kids without i-pads in McDonalds scolded by world-weary parents! In many ways this paved the way for their current 'decline'. 2021 was better but he still had to go with the flow of fluctuations whilst the world adapted. With still a very young team at the helm, we eventually broke the hoodoo of WC derby victories with a thrilling outing at the end of that year. Something Ross couldn't do since 2015. That for me was a big turning point. In the off season cry baby Cerra wants out and off he goes to Carltoon. We draft a KEY POSITION FORWARD in Amiss in his place. Not a bad bit of business if I do say so myself, as good a player as Cez looked to be.

The next year, in 2022 we make finals and we WIN a final (hooray)...and no one (well, not true...but hardly anyone) is feeling unhappy, throughout the year FLAGMANTLE emerges as a hashtag/trending/thingy-ma-bob and we beat undefeated reigning Prems Melbourne at the MCG in a thrilling exhibition, including Frederick's infamous Flick of Flabbergasting Brilliance. The place erupts and Flagmantle gains traction and everyone is feeling, to quote General Levy alongside the M-Beat ("the world is in trouble"). "I am, I am...the Incredible general! S-s-s-s-sensational". Anyway. I digress.....

2022 off season and we lose a slew of dudes, some best 22, some....not. Then 2023 stuffs us right up the left turkey and we lose some more best 22s in Henry and Sarge and we're back to feeling a tad glum again. Typical Freo territory.

So we get to 2024 and it's now J-Lo's 5th year in charge and we're all a bit shifty, like...it's time to get a bit Sex Machine like James Brown J-Lo and show us what moves ya got. And so, of we goooooooo.......

Of the 4 losses (to date this year) - now, I could be one of those savant-posters who knows every nuanced stat and can wade out paragraphs of intellectual reasoning and have the proof, but I am not that poster. I'm too f***in' lazy!

What I will say though is this:

4 losses. 2 in Adelaide, 1 under VERY suss circumstances and possibly another game we could have (should have?) won against Port. Neither game we were amazeballs in, but we didn't get spanked either. In it up to our eyeballs in some AFL equivalent of chaos-chess.

We then get ambushed in some shock and awe move by a hungrier (on the night) West Coast and the derby streak is over and we're all feeling super shiphousery. And that's our worst losing streak to date, 3 in a row.

Of course we know the Sydney situation and the events leading up to that. The tragedy of losing Cam, a beloved ex-player not even 30 years old less than 24 hours before the kick-off/bounce-down. Pretty tough to talk about that, even now.

So really all 4 losses have mitigating feelings behind them and of course recently one draw, 6 wins. Is it so terrible, and is what Justin doing......so bad..?! Meh, personally - I don't think so.

It feels like we've come a long way since the dark days of just last year even when it felt like we had backpeddled - it feels like a club that the AFL treats like a bastard son with impetigo, that has a tough travel schedule every year, has (be honest) NOT been given an easier draw for finishing 14th; has had to endure tough years to get access to better picks when the Ross years did yield some success near the top but not ultimately a flag and certainly not an influx of handy picks like North and Gold Toast have recently been slathering over left right and centre. In a world where Harley "Hugger Mugger Face" Reid is the 2nd coming (in more ways than 1..) in the West and over in Vicworld, we're not even a blip on the radar when Footy Classified only wants to talk about Dustin Martin's impending retirement plans, we are irrelevant.

Justin isn't perfect and a part of that is his introverted personality or aspects of it, but...I personally can see growth in him as a person AND as a coach, look at him recently calling out the Amiss stuff, the travel schedule, Justin of 2 years, hell maybe even 1 year might not have felt empowered to do all that...this is a different person emerging and he's taking this playing group with him who drive lofty standards, like Caleb and Andy - future captains in waiting, maybe dual captains. He's also in charge of one of the comp's youngest lists, is the 2nd youngest coach I think - so plenty of upside in him. Is, as seen within the industry - highly valued, respected and even loved (by his own). Fyfe said post-match against the Bulldogs "we're a young group...we're well coached..". He also said in a Channel 7 segment it would be folly to sack him now and then the players have to learn all over again from a new coach, just as traction IS being made, just as progress (albeit at times frustratingly is materializing). This gig ain't easy, but you can clearly see there's a bond and there's a belief. These...are decent foundations, forget the past 29 years. History is what's behind you, it starts NOW!

I'm not patient either and 30 years is .......a painful wait, but it does feel like it's coming and we do have to hold firm because I reckon (and of course, I could be wrong..) that we have the right man at the helm and he is going to deliver...soon. I still think the list is incomplete and needs some Chad and Baker and maybe one or 2 others who we haven't even conceived of yet or another hidden draft gem.....but I have warmed to Justin over the past 6 months or so, he's showing me things.....little signs here & there, and can see some of myself and what struggles I've had to endure, albeit not in a professional domain like J-Lo has, but if he can grow as a coach to a level of empowerment he didn't always feel naturally able to, or capable of - he WILL lead this club to ultimate success. And if I'm wrong, and he can't...the club will have to act and the axe will have to fall.

But....I don't reckon I'm wrong. Each to their own, I respect EVERYONE'S right to have an opinion and I get how frustrating we can be as team at times especially burning chance after chance and how it can feel like J-Lo's fallback is a too defensive strategic set up etc, but we're fighting for a spot in the 8, not to stay out the bottom 4. We might not be Premiers elect in 2024, but we're fighting at the right end of the table and it doesn't feel like we're too far off now, it really doesn't.

However, I get it. Talk is cheap and I'm exhausted writing all this. I won't post again for 2 weeks. Yeah, right!

Just my gut call, but I reckon we have the RIGHT man, we're just not "seeing" it yet. Hold firm Freo crew, just ask poshman what decades about to come

It's coming.

 

[james haish]

For starters the club let Ross run us into the ground before JLo got here. Our culture was shot and the internal review showed this.

I don't blame Ross for the state the list was in, or at least not totally. We had bad drafting for a good while, and even the year before he got here we had a number of misses when there were talented players around our picks. Chuck a young Elliot Yeo in that team from 2013-15 and we win a flag. Instead we took Alex Forster who had his papers stamped after one game. The Lloyd era was our worst for trading and drafting and our good results were based on a lot of the talent we got from 99-09.

Agree on culture - there were far too many off field issues during the latter part of Lyon's tenure and Longmuir has solved pretty much all of those.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I feel we end up going backwards and to the side a bit from a lot of those clearances we win. I definitely think the ruckmen are under orders not to kick it in long as LJ and Darcy will pass it off even if in the clear almost all the time.
One issue is we don’t have any mid with a massive boot. Serong and AB are 45m kicks, sharp is a long kick but he doesn’t go inside much.
I wonder if they have ever considered throwing Clark into the odd centre bounce to try something different? He would very much suit the run and gun style we try to adopt out of there

I suppose Switta is that try something different guy and proved it again on Friday. Possibly something they should go to a bit more.

We definitely don't get out the front of centre clearances as much as I'd like, it's really only Jackson that seems to be able to do that but that might again be a personel thing

 

[Spirit Level]

I seriously believe there are a few posters in here that want Freo to fail this year just to say, see I knew JL wasn't good enough.

I've had enough of this absolute braindead moronic horsesh*t.

Jesus christ you can't be critical these days without the positive crew jumping down your throat.

WE ALL WANT JL TO DO WELL

Get it through your head.

Everyone here wants him to do well, just a few of us are seeing cracks in his plan and not seeing how he finds a way forward.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I've had enough of this absolute braindead moronic horsesh*t.

Jesus christ you can't be critical these days without the positive crew jumping down your throat.

WE ALL WANT JL TO DO WELL

Get it through your head.

Everyone here wants him to do well, just a few of us are seeing cracks in his plan and not seeing how he finds a way forward.

While I get it, there are definitely some who would rather be proven right then have the club succeed, even I'd they won't admit it

 

[Spirit Level]

While I get it, there are definitely some who would rather be proven right then have the club succeed, even I'd they won't admit it

I just can't see how it's possible.

For example, I used to criticise Bailey Banfield as much as anyone but then come gameday I'd be behind him every week because like it or not we're on the same side.

If you'd rather be proven right then have the club succeed you're not really much of a supporter tbh.

I'd love to be proven wrong, I really hope there's a big grand plan at play and the turgid football we play at times is leading somewhere.

 

[The Feeder Club]

While I get it, there are definitely some who would rather be proven right then have the club succeed, even I'd they won't admit it

Go on then, tag them in and see if you can get any single person to agree with your characterisation of them.
As Spirit Level so eloquently put it, horseshit

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I just can't see how it's possible.

For example, I used to criticise Bailey Banfield as much as anyone but then come gameday I'd be behind him every week because like it or not we're on the same side.

If you'd rather be proven right then have the club succeed you're not really much of a supporter tbh

There's all kinds of people though, my experience on here is that there are some that get more or as much about having thr best opinion as they do about "supporting"

You and I and many others might have recognised Banfield is decent now but you don't reckon there are some that will never admit it?

I do get the annoyance at the basically support all the time ideology though

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Go on then, tag them in and see if you can get any single person to agree with your characterisation of them.
As Spirit Level so eloquently put it, horseshit

I wouldn't do Bradesmaen dirty like that

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

There was also that dude that told me straight up we would lose like the last month of footy in 2022 and not make finals and disappeared like a fart in the wind when we did. Popped up start of this year and frequently last year though

There's a decent amount who use BF to validate their opinion and toot their horn and definitely don't seem to enjoy (at least they never post anything positive) winning

 

[Bradesmaen]

I wouldn't do Bradesmaen dirty like that

I'd rather see the club succeed than be proven right about JL. All I get is stick for being a Freo fan

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I'd rather see the club succeed than be proven right about JL. All I get is stick for being a Freo fan

Exactly something a Bradesmaen would want us to think

 

[Spirit Level]

Do we not move it into the forwardline quick from a centre clearance, I don't remember too many instances of "stuffing around with it?" Its an interesting point though and I'll try to watch for it next game

First 2 bounces of the 3rd quarter.

Sh*t me to tears cause we shoulda had 2 quick i50s but the Pies got the first 2 goals and then had momentum

 

[Dockeroo]

Yeah this idea that some of us spend hours every week in BF talking about our club, something we are all passionate about, and then turn around and actually Hope we lose at the weekend to prove some nuffie point we were making on here, is absolute horseshit.

Maybe there is one of two like that but I can tell mattis117 who recently is regularly replying to my comments refuting even mild criticisms of the club and made the initial comment earlier in response to me, that I’m damn f**king well not one of them, and I resent completely even the suggestion that I am.

I. Want. Freo. To. Win. Every. Game.

I also actually don’t want JL sacked. I do want him to switch tack away from the overhandballing gameplan because I’m absolutely convinced it will not hold up in finals. I have every right as a member of the FFC and a regular poster on here to hold and express that opinion without having some gestapo style comments police jumping on what I say as overly negative. It’s an opinions board. If you don’t agree - tough shit.


Wanting JL to change the gameplan is NOT the same as wanting JL to fail and be sacked.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

First 2 bounces of the 3rd quarter.

Sh*t me to tears cause we shoulda had 2 quick i50s but the Pies got the first 2 goals and then had momentum

Quickly watched them, yep, over did it. Given how the quarter went hopefully it's pointed as the times we over possessed