Speculation Liam Baker

[Jeremias]

Time for some house cleaning.

1) Do not drag discussions or individual posts over here from other threads or boards.

Feel free to respond to those posts wherever they were posted, if you so choose.

2) Enough with the personal attacks. It’s a long season and this one may go the distance, so if you want to remain a part of the discussion, do it respectfully.

We will use thread bans and infractions if necessary.

 

[Farang83150]

These uncontracted player moves are so predictable.

1. Player nominates his team.
2. The destination club offers between 60-80% of his real worth.
3. The other club stomp their feet and talk about not accepting, etc.
4. The deal gets done on the last day for a token improvement on the original offer.

Baker's worth pick 12-15 I'd say

Freo will offer their latest 1st rounder and it'll likely get done (say pick 16 that becomes 20-22 on draft night).

West Coast is more tricky but it'll be their 2nd plus a future 3rd or something like that maybe with a F4 thrown in as the token extra. They'll only split their pick if they want to do that anyway and will still only give up something they consider equivalent to their 2nd + F3.

Exactly, the above scenario's been played out so many times, but the one other thing not mentioned that's in the mix is the dif with contracted and un-contracted

 

[Farang83150]

I'd also question giving up anything in the 1st round for a 27 year old who isn't a KPP.

100% this

 

[WilloTree]

A question- what would you like Freo to do with their first rounders, assuming neither Warner & McDonald are available?

Bringing in 3 more 18 year olds doesn’t seem to be in Freo’s best interests in terms of wanting to immediately strengthen your B22.

I would like them to package Saints's 2nd and a 1st to move up the draft into the single digits leaving them with 3 (good) 1st rounders.

I'd then walk out of the draft with something like Champion, Hotton and Gross.

There's no hurry to immediately strengthen. Freo are still very young - 4th youngest in the AFL/17th for games played.
Treacy and Amiss are babies in AFL KPF terms. The midfield is also very young with Brayshaw (24), Serong (23), Young (23) and Johnson (20).

Sending a 1st rounder out for a 27 year old utility just feels all wrong to me.

 

[juss]

These uncontracted player moves are so predictable.

1. Player nominates his team.
2. The destination club offers between 60-80% of his real worth.
3. The other club stomp their feet and talk about not accepting, etc.
4. The deal gets done on the last day for a token improvement on the original offer.

Baker's worth pick 12-15 I'd say

Freo will offer their latest 1st rounder and it'll likely get done (say pick 16 that becomes 20-22 on draft night).

West Coast is more tricky but it'll be their 2nd plus a future 3rd or something like that maybe with a F4 thrown in as the token extra. They'll only split their pick if they want to do that anyway and will still only give up something they consider equivalent to their 2nd + F3.

My trade predictions depending on who he nominates:

Freo: Their last 1st rounder which agree becomes a pick in the high teens maybe early 20s on draft night depending on all the other factors.
West Coast: Their current and F2, the Tigers may throw back a F3 or F4 in that deal.

If he decides to leave, he will get to where he nominates.
The key for us is I guess we hope he nominates Freo to try and get into that first round.

 

[juss]

I would like them to package Saints's 2nd and a 1st to move up the draft into the single digits leaving them with 3 (good) 1st rounders.

I'd then walk out of the draft with something like Champion, Hotton and Gross.

There's no hurry to immediately strengthen. Freo are still very young - 4th youngest in the AFL/17th for games played.
Treacy and Amiss are babies in AFL KPF terms. The midfield is also very young with Brayshaw (24), Serong (23), Young (23) and Johnson (20).

Sending a 1st rounder out for a 27 year old utility just feels all wrong to me.

On the other side of the coin, that young profile and surplus in picks means you can balance your list with someone who still has 5 years left to offer leadership, finals and premiership experience, and versatility on field with good football.

By the time the 2024 1st rounder is at his peak at 24/25 (IF that player even makes it), someone like Serong might be 30. Baker comes in as ready to go when you could be contending in the next 5 years as those guys come into their prime.

Baker is a safe, proven commodity, I think he complements your list beautifully in what he can add to that group.

 

[Morro]

My trade predictions depending on who he nominates:

Freo: Their last 1st rounder which agree becomes a pick in the high teens maybe early 20s on draft night depending on all the other factors.
West Coast: Their current and F2, the Tigers may throw back a F3 or F4 in that deal.

If he decides to leave, he will get to where he nominates.
The key for us is I guess we hope he nominates Freo to try and get into that first round.

If its WC and that deal, I would want to turn those 2nd rounders into a first with someone, so I reckon we would have a cheeky 3 way

 

[juss]

If its WC and that deal, I would want to turn those 2nd rounders into a first with someone, so I reckon we would have a cheeky 3 way

That could possibly happen, but I'd also be happy to take it to the draft and it already starts to bolster next year's draft hand for flexibility again.

 

[Farang83150]

Interesting stuff.
Hope we only offer a 2nd and maybe a 3rd, stand firm on it, if we don't get him then....meh, whatever, prefer to hit the draft.
Still think he goes to Freo though.

 

[THE_GUN]

Time for some house cleaning.

1) Do not drag discussions or individual posts over here from other threads or boards.

Feel free to respond to those posts wherever they were posted, if you so choose.

2) Enough with the personal attacks. It’s a long season and this one may go the distance, so if you want to remain a part of the discussion, do it respectfully.

We will use thread bans and infractions if necessary.

Can we please include the term " You dont know how trade works to the list " Appears only WA posters have insight into ADL trading and trades

 

[Jeremias]

Can we please include the term " You dont know how trade works to the list " Appears only WA posters have insight into ADL trading and trades

No. You can ignore posts or report them and they will be dealt with accordingly.

 

[WestCoast05]

Appears only WA posters have insight into ADL trading and trades

Look to be fair - when you have some Richmond posters claiming "we'll just keep him then" regarding not getting the draft price required during trade week for an uncontracted premiership club hero who has asked to leave, you really do set yourself up to being accused of not understanding how the AFL's trade system works...

 

[THE_GUN]

Look to be fair - when you have some Richmond posters claiming "we'll just keep him then" regarding not getting the draft price required during trade week for an uncontracted premiership club hero who has asked to leave, you really do set yourself up to being accused of not understanding how the AFL's trade system works...

Yes but at the same time what you guys fail to accept is there are always ways to convince players to stay
Richmond love Baker & Baker loves Richmond and is an extremely loyal person and VC

Richmond have tabled a very generous offer to him and want him to stay , Now im sure Freo & Eagles would have done the same but in the event that a reasonable trade cannot be completed Richmond could just as easily up their offer by $100k (example) to convince him to stay and there are also talks about handing him the captaincy.

People also need to remember this is not a 21/22 year old kid thats missing home, Family etc , He is a professional football player with 6+ years ahead and it would be more the cash thats making him consider leaving and not the pull back home

I fully get the uncontracted want to go home players like Clarke and specially Kelly with the kids and needing family support
But Baker is not in the same position and whilst still out of contract he always signs late so still alot to play out.

But i think you will find most Richmond supporters will be thinking his value is between 10-15 give or take 1-2 spots and how bad the team/s want him and what picks they have at their disposal.

But the he is uncontracted and we get him for 2nd which ends up mid 20's is not happening
Not that im saying a 2nd rounder wont be used but it wont be that pick on its own

I have and still maintain if its freo it will be a pick around 15 and if its Eagles either they split the 1st or use their 2nd rounder plus F2


But i prefer he re signs at Richmond and remains a 1 club player as he is a leader that leads by example on the field and never takes a backward step and the type of player that is a massive asset to the club for bothe experience and determination.

What i laugh at the most in here is the people looking at his games played and goals kicked and not even knowing what position he plays talking about his value and how he is not a goal kicker

Baker would have probably played as a perm foward less than 20 games and spent his first 80-90 games playing as a defender that has stints in the midfield or up foward for cameo roles during games.

If played as a perm foward he would easily average 1-1.5 goals a game and provide immense foward pressure
people forget quickly the small fowards that Richmond had during the Dynasty
Rioli , Butler , Castagna , Higgins , Bolton , Martin , Stengle and 3 are now at other clubs and baker never got a run there during that period and only last 2-3 years has been pushed mid/fwd

 

[Farang83150]

Richmond have tabled a very generous offer to him and want him to stay ,

So what's the very generous offer or did you promise not to tell?

Now im sure Freo & Eagles would have done the same but in the event that a reasonable trade cannot be completed Richmond could just as easily up their offer by $100k (example) to convince him to stay and there are also talks about handing him the captaincy.

If nothing eventuates Richmond will suddenly offer him another 100k that they could've offered in the first place but held out on?

People also need to remember this is not a 21/22 year old kid thats missing home, Family etc , He is a professional football player with 6+ years ahead and it would be more the cash thats making him consider leaving and not the pull back home

You have absolutely no idea his reason for wanting to go home.

I fully get the uncontracted want to go home players like Clarke and specially Kelly with the kids and needing family support
But Baker is not in the same position and whilst still out of contract he always signs late so still alot to play out.

Again, you have zero idea his reasons for leaving Richmond.
stop making out like you're close personal friend with some of your comments, unless of course you are?

 

[Tugga27]

Yes but at the same time what you guys fail to accept is there are always ways to convince players to stay
Richmond love Baker & Baker loves Richmond and is an extremely loyal person and VC

Richmond have tabled a very generous offer to him and want him to stay , Now im sure Freo & Eagles would have done the same but in the event that a reasonable trade cannot be completed Richmond could just as easily up their offer by $100k (example) to convince him to stay and there are also talks about handing him the captaincy.

People also need to remember this is not a 21/22 year old kid thats missing home, Family etc , He is a professional football player with 6+ years ahead and it would be more the cash thats making him consider leaving and not the pull back home

I fully get the uncontracted want to go home players like Clarke and specially Kelly with the kids and needing family support
But Baker is not in the same position and whilst still out of contract he always signs late so still alot to play out.

But i think you will find most Richmond supporters will be thinking his value is between 10-15 give or take 1-2 spots and how bad the team/s want him and what picks they have at their disposal.

But the he is uncontracted and we get him for 2nd which ends up mid 20's is not happening
Not that im saying a 2nd rounder wont be used but it wont be that pick on its own

I have and still maintain if its freo it will be a pick around 15 and if its Eagles either they split the 1st or use their 2nd rounder plus F2


But i prefer he re signs at Richmond and remains a 1 club player as he is a leader that leads by example on the field and never takes a backward step and the type of player that is a massive asset to the club for bothe experience and determination.

What i laugh at the most in here is the people looking at his games played and goals kicked and not even knowing what position he plays talking about his value and how he is not a goal kicker

Baker would have probably played as a perm foward less than 20 games and spent his first 80-90 games playing as a defender that has stints in the midfield or up foward for cameo roles during games.

If played as a perm foward he would easily average 1-1.5 goals a game and provide immense foward pressure
people forget quickly the small fowards that Richmond had during the Dynasty
Rioli , Butler , Castagna , Higgins , Bolton , Martin , Stengle and 3 are now at other clubs and baker never got a run there during that period and only last 2-3 years has been pushed mid/fwd

That's a long winded post that really doesn't say much.

No matter how much a player loves the club, if he's made up his mind to go home, he's going home. The reasons why don't mean anything.

It's just as simple as, he wants to go home (assuming he does of course).

He owes Richmond nothing and they owe him nothing.

 

[THE_GUN]

Going to be alot of purple tears on this board when Freo cough up the pick/s

 

[Jumpoff Joey]

Yes but at the same time what you guys fail to accept is there are always ways to convince players to stay
Richmond love Baker & Baker loves Richmond and is an extremely loyal person and VC

I dont think anyone fails to understand that Richmond could very well change his mind. The speculation seems to indicate he is coming home. Richmond has five months to do the very same thing you suggest.

AND If Baker wants to stay, then this all becomes irrelevant.

BUT If Baker wants to go, then the trade is on for Uncontracted player that wants to return home. The player has total leverage, and Richmond will be compensated pending on which clubs he chooses.

It wont turn into a bidding war.

 

[THE_GUN]

I dont think anyone fails to understand that Richmond could very well change his mind. The speculation seems to indicate he is coming home. Richmond has five months to do the very same thing you suggest.

AND If Baker wants to stay, then this all becomes irrelevant.

BUT If Baker wants to go, then the trade is on for Uncontracted player that wants to return home. The player has total leverage, and Richmond will be compensated pending on which clubs he chooses.

It wont turn into a bidding war.

Of course it wont ! Not in regards to what happens at the trade table any way
But ot certainly will between the 2 WA clubs on who convinces him to want to play for them

But once that happens its still not over as the player can always change his mind and stay and thats where Richmond will have an influence.

Clubs and managers are well and truly in negotiations prior to the trade period and usually have a good idea where the trade falls and if its acceptable. If not the Richmond will need to convince Baker to remain at Punt Road and thats where clubs do the work and the salary goes up for the player.

Richmond TPP is at a really good position now with many big contract players retired and big contracts expire and would have no issue with giving him a good bump to sign.

We seen 2 years ago Richmond & GWS had the Taranto deal packed away before the trade period had even began

 

[Tugga27]

Of course it wont ! Not in regards to what happens at the trade table any way
But ot certainly will between the 2 WA clubs on who convinces him to want to play for them

But once that happens its still not over as the player can always change his mind and stay and thats where Richmond will have an influence.

Clubs and managers are well and truly in negotiations prior to the trade period and usually have a good idea where the trade falls and if its acceptable. If not the Richmond will need to convince Baker to remain at Punt Road and thats where clubs do the work and the salary goes up for the player.

Richmond TPP is at a really good position now with many big contract players retired and big contracts expire and would have no issue with giving him a good bump to sign.

We seen 2 years ago Richmond & GWS had the Taranto deal packed away before the trade period had even began

You still don't get it.
Once Baker, through his management start listening to offers from Freo or WC, he's made his mind up to come home.

Otherwise, he could knock the speculation on the head now and sign for Richmond.

 

[Daka]

You still don't get it.
Once Baker, through his management start listening to offers from Freo or WC, he's made his mind up to come home.

Otherwise, he could knock the speculation on the head now and sign for Richmond.

He re-signed much later than this last time when WCE & Freo were after his services 2 years ago.

 

[Freomaniac]

Then you are delusional

Baker has won enough games and would like to win more but he is not moving for the same $$$
This will be his last contract to cash in and will have a great offer from his current club and will need an uplift to move
Fremantle are not a top 4 team and no guarantee's the coach will be there in 12 -24 months time

If he is leaving its $$$

If Liam Baker is going for the Money, He will join North Melbourne

 

[Freomaniac]

Are we still talking about Freo here? Come on...

Yes you're looking better this season, but that's pretty transient. Freo are consistently one of the flakiest and most unreliable sides in the comp. Freo finished below the Tigers as recent as last year. You're hardly a success on any metric as a club. If you were saying he's moving for reliable chances and shots at a flag and said he was going to a Geelong or Sydney type club I'd pay that, but Freo? You're just as likely to miss finals with a bad run next year as you are to make them, when comparing the two clubs, this is the first season you look substantially better than us in a while.

If we'd had a better injury run this year I'm pretty convinced we'd have 2-3 more wins and the gap between the sides would be relatively marginal given Freo are 5-3, and that's just a one year sample.

I think he's going back to WA for 2 reasons,
1. He returns to his home state which has obvious pull for many reasons.
2. The offer will be a very good one, players don't move for less money, certainly not to a club like Freo because of "opportunities for success".

I think he'll stay at Richmond for 2 reasons if he does
1. It's easier to keep players than acquire them / players are often quite loyal and stay around unless they're grossly unhappy or not getting opportunity
2. We offer a deal that is close enough (or more) than a competing club's offer.

Oh that is So Ironic you said that.


I wont deny freos success or lack of. But freo from 1995-2023 have made finals only 8 times in 29 years. 2003, 2006, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2022.

Would of been nice had freo done a tiny bit better in certain years like 1997, 2004, 2005 and 2021. Would of been nice to make back to back finals in 2005-6 and 2021-22.

Point is your team before Damien Hardwick was coach from 2010-2023.... well Look at Richmond from 1983-2012. only made finals in 1995 and 2001.

I personally would rather Liam Baker sign a 1 or 2 year extension with richmond so he becomes a free agent.

 

[Freomaniac]

Is he a small defender? He plays midfield at the moment and holds his own.. plays up forward too.
Can you name a small defender that has kicked 50 goals in just over a 100 games?
He made the under 22 All Australian team.
The average AFL wage is about to tick over 400k (that salary cap divided by players on the list) … 800k a year is not that much money for a player who regularly finishes high in best and fairest awards … including in premiership years.
He’d be in top 8 players picked in any AFL side and one of the first picked for WA is you ever field a team in the near future.
Don’t under sell Baker, it only proves you ignorance.

Liam Baker isnt a small defender. Well... He isnt just a small defender. He can play on a wing. He seems like he can play on a forward flank too. Kicked 11 goals in 2022, 12 goals in 2023. Already kicked 7 goals in 2024. Is he a good player? Yes he is. But saying that, Liam Baker isnt the main reason why Richmond won the 2018 and 2020 grand finals. Baker played in both of them.

I wouldnt mind Baker a full season up forward kicking 25-30 goals a season on a forward flank.

If this was 2016-18, a prime Liam baker would be a bloke on $400,000 a year.

the Salary cap in 2024 is $15,788,222. The playing Salary cap in 2025 will be $17,700,000.

I used to think Brad Hills contact at the saints from 2020-24 was steep as he is being paid $800-$900,000 a year. He should be on $650,000 a year.



You say he would be in the top 8 players in Any AFL side? Debateable.

I will admit this though. He would be in Both West coast eagles and Dockers best 22. Liam Baker isnt the elite. But despite being 173 cm tall, he is versatile. Thats why he would be in most sides best 23.

 

[nut]

Liam Baker isnt a small defender. Well... He isnt just a small defender. He can play on a wing. He seems like he can play on a forward flank too. Kicked 11 goals in 2022, 12 goals in 2023. Already kicked 7 goals in 2024. Is he a good player? Yes he is. But saying that, Liam Baker isnt the main reason why Richmond won the 2018 and 2020 grand finals. Baker played in both of them.

I wouldnt mind Baker a full season up forward kicking 25-30 goals a season on a forward flank.

If this was 2016-18, a prime Liam baker would be a bloke on $400,000 a year.

the Salary cap in 2024 is $15,788,222. The playing Salary cap in 2025 will be $17,700,000.

I used to think Brad Hills contact at the saints from 2020-24 was steep as he is being paid $800-$900,000 a year. He should be on $650,000 a year.



You say he would be in the top 8 players in Any AFL side? Debateable.

I will admit this though. He would be in Both West coast eagles and Dockers best 22. Liam Baker isnt the elite. But despite being 173 cm tall, he is versatile. Thats why he would be in most sides best 23.

He is worth 15 goals to us… as you can see from last Saturday night when he didn’t play.

 

[tiger_tough]

 

[THE_GUN]

If Liam Baker is going for the Money, He will join North Melbourne

You must be new here

Nobody joins North Melbourne


Not even for the money