Most underperforming players on our list

[Bombers36]

Interested in peoples thoughts on this. a few names come to mind, and I've listed a bit of info on each player also. is there any I have missed? Any of the below who shouldn't be here?;-

David Myers:

height - 191, weight - 88, draft pick - 6, years at club - 12, age - 29 and 9 months, games - 121, ave games per year - 10, ave disposals - 18, goals - 0.3, marks - 3.5, tackles - 3

comments – showed lots of ability early in his career but is now an injury prone veteran who continues to get games despite having little impact – possibly because he is in the leadership group. Mainly used now as a blocking type big bodied mid, but seems to have slowed down significantly in 2019 and could finish out the season in the reserves

Aaron Francis:

height - 193, weight - 92, draft pick - 6, years at club - 4, age - 21 and 8 months, games - 13, ave games per year - 3, ave disposals - 12, goals - 0.3, marks - 5.4, tackles - 1.8

comments - flashy defender known for his great reading of the play and intercept marking. has had some weight/fitness & mental health issues, and needs to manage these & improve tank and consistency to become a permanent AFL fixture and realise his ability. unlike Myers still has time

Darcy Parish:

height - 180, weight - 80, draft pick – 5, years at club - 4, age - 21 and 9 months, games - 60, ave games per year - 15, ave disposals - 20, goals - 0.3, marks – 3.5, tackles – 3.4

another high draft pick who has yet to really deliver, but has played some good games for the club and at least has played a decent amount of games during his time with the club – unlike Myers and Francis. Seems to have stagnated though and may not have the necessary tools to become a real top class mid

Jayden Laverde:

height - 191, weight - 90, draft pick – 20, years at club - 5, age - 23, games - 30, ave games per year - 6, ave disposals – 12.3, goals - 0.6, marks – 3.9, tackles – 3.1


is much like David Myers was early in his career - big bodied and looks the part and has plays a couple of games each year where he is in the best 4 or 5 players, but then gets injured and is often out for extended periods. Like Myers his big body doesn’t seem to be able to handle the rigours of AFL

James Stewart:

height - 198, weight - 94, draft pick – 77, years at club - 3, age - 25, games - 45, ave games per year – 7.5, ave disposals – 11.2, goals – 1.2, marks – 4, tackles – 1.8

Tall forward who has looked the part in a few games but unable to get on the park so far this year. Was picked up from GWS for next to nothing and may be worth persisting with as a 3rd tall forward but probably will never be able to hold down a key forward post with any consistency

 

[BrunoV]

What's the point?

Is there some debate that any are performing?

 

[Kakkle]

I have nothing to add, but if I posted here in 2009 this is exactly the type of thread I would post.

 

[yodellinhank]

I have nothing to add, but if I posted here in 2009 this is exactly the type of thread I would post.

Too bad that you matured and the club didn't.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Myers showed a lot of ability early in his career?

I must’ve been in a coma

 

[citizen-erased]

Disagree with underperforming for most of them

Myers - fair enough. Age isn't on his side, he hasn't lived up to the pick, and has been hampered by injury and the suspension.

The rest are kids with time on their side.
Our 22 is strong. Guys like Ambrose and Brown have hit good form and have the experience to warrant a spot. Bags is clearly doing a role the coaches want.

As i see it, with zero injuries, there are 3-4 spots in the side that don't pick themselves
They are currently occupied by Bags, Myers, Brown and Guelfi. Could argue Brown's is a 5th.

When we're losing like we did in rounds 1 and 2 and these guys are languishing, its not ideal.
The form in the last 4 games is cause for less concern.

 

[calyam]

I do find the regression of Francis, Parish and Langford interesting.

All three of them played very good football after the bye last year. All three of them were playing career-best football after the bye, with their improvement mirroring the improvement of the broader team.

All three have been dropped in 2019. All three have performed at a level well below what they were doing in the second half of 2018. Under-performing if you will.

To put this into some context I crunched some numbers. These are each player's team rankings, derived using AFL player rating score, in three periods: before / after the bye in 2018 and so far in 2019.

Langford: 11th (pre-bye 2018); 9th (post-bye 2018); 24th (pre-bye 2019)
Francis: NA#; 3rd; 23rd
Parish: 16th; 5th; 19th

Now these rankings don't necessarily mean that Parish was our 5th best player after the bye last year. That is a much deeper question that requires consideration of structure and specific role. But it does suggest that he was very effective at what he was doing. Parish, along with Francis and Langford, were definitely helping us to win games.

So essentially Langford has gone from being the average Essendon player to being absolutely terrible. Francis has gone from being an outstanding intercept defender (admittedly in only a 5-game sample) to being unable to run out a VFL game. Parish has gone from being one of our more damaging midfielders to a risk of being dropped each week.

My question is what is the cause of this? The progression of young players isn't linear, we know this, but rarely do we see such a regression from obviously talented players.

Is it due to attitude - on and off the field? Did the club mismanage their pre-seasons? Outside of McGrath there is little evidence that our younger guys have improved much. Or is it simply an issue of role?

Parish and Langford may have been squeezed out by the inclusion of Shiel. I'd argue that this explains why Myers has become so ineffective - he is surplus to requirement.

I find the whole thing rather curious. That three kids, largely the same age and all poised for breakouts, have all severely regressed points towards some shared cause. Whatever that might be.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I do find the regression of Francis, Parish and Langford interesting.

All three of them played very good football after the bye last year. All three of them were playing career-best football after the bye, with their improvement mirroring the improvement of the broader team.

All three have been dropped in 2019. All three have performed at a level well below what they were doing in the second half of 2018. Under-performing if you will.

To put this into some context I crunched some numbers. These are each player's team rankings, derived using AFL player rating score, in three periods: before / after the bye in 2018 and so far in 2019.

Langford: 11th (pre-bye 2018); 9th (post-bye 2018); 24th (pre-bye 2019)
Francis: NA#; 3rd; 23rd
Parish: 16th; 5th; 19th

Now these rankings don't necessarily mean that Parish was our 5th best player after the bye last year. That is a much deeper question that requires consideration of structure and specific role. But it does suggest that he was very effective at what he was doing. Parish, along with Francis and Langford, were definitely helping us to win games.

So essentially Langford has gone from being the average Essendon player to being absolutely terrible. Francis has gone from being an outstanding intercept defender (admittedly in only a 5-game sample) to being unable to run out a VFL game. Parish has gone from being one of our more damaging midfielders to a risk of being dropped each week.

My question is what is the cause of this? The progression of young players isn't linear, we know this, but rarely do we see such a regression from obviously talented players.

Is it due to attitude - on and off the field? Did the club mismanage their pre-seasons? Outside of McGrath there is little evidence that our younger guys have improved much. Or is it simply an issue of role?

Parish and Langford may have been squeezed out by the inclusion of Shiel. I'd argue that this explains why Myers has become so ineffective - he is surplus to requirement.

I find the whole thing rather curious. That three kids, largely the same age and all poised for breakouts, have all severely regressed points towards some shared cause. Whatever that might be.

Good post.

Interested in the impact of Redman and Ridley here. Have they gone past Parish and Francis? It would appear so based on selection.

 

[Lore]

I do find the regression of Francis, Parish and Langford interesting.

All three of them played very good football after the bye last year. All three of them were playing career-best football after the bye, with their improvement mirroring the improvement of the broader team.

All three have been dropped in 2019. All three have performed at a level well below what they were doing in the second half of 2018. Under-performing if you will.

To put this into some context I crunched some numbers. These are each player's team rankings, derived using AFL player rating score, in three periods: before / after the bye in 2018 and so far in 2019.

Langford: 11th (pre-bye 2018); 9th (post-bye 2018); 24th (pre-bye 2019)
Francis: NA#; 3rd; 23rd
Parish: 16th; 5th; 19th

Now these rankings don't necessarily mean that Parish was our 5th best player after the bye last year. That is a much deeper question that requires consideration of structure and specific role. But it does suggest that he was very effective at what he was doing. Parish, along with Francis and Langford, were definitely helping us to win games.

So essentially Langford has gone from being the average Essendon player to being absolutely terrible. Francis has gone from being an outstanding intercept defender (admittedly in only a 5-game sample) to being unable to run out a VFL game. Parish has gone from being one of our more damaging midfielders to a risk of being dropped each week.

My question is what is the cause of this? The progression of young players isn't linear, we know this, but rarely do we see such a regression from obviously talented players.

Is it due to attitude - on and off the field? Did the club mismanage their pre-seasons? Outside of McGrath there is little evidence that our younger guys have improved much. Or is it simply an issue of role?

Parish and Langford may have been squeezed out by the inclusion of Shiel. I'd argue that this explains why Myers has become so ineffective - he is surplus to requirement.

I find the whole thing rather curious. That three kids, largely the same age and all poised for breakouts, have all severely regressed points towards some shared cause. Whatever that might be.

Um. What player ratings were you using? And how were you using them?

How does Parish become "5th" in the second half of the year? And how can the first half of 2019 be considered a regression?

If you hover over the data points it tells you where he ranked within the club in each particular round. He hasn't been above 11th or below 15th since round 1 2018. He played in rounds 1-8 and 17-23 last year. He missed round 1 and has played rounds 2-6 so far.





I have a lot of problems with the use of Player Ratings data, even Champion Data doesn't like it, and they're the ones that made it in the first place. But even using it I can't figure out how you draw your conclusions from this. The use of "pre-bye" 2019 data when a player has played only a couple of games is far too small of a sample size to draw any sort of conclusion.

Langford fluctuated between 28th and 19th at the Club. Currently 20th. I guess that's a 1 place regression? His lowest ebb was when he wasn't in the actual team and went backwards because it's a stupid algorithm. He played in rounds 1, 2, 9, 10 and 11-23 (13 was the bye), and rounds 1-2 this year.



And then we have Francis, who has ranged from 37th to 28th on the intra-club rankings. He only dropped in ratings in 2019 after he was out of the team and there were no stats to base his ratings on. He played in rounds 19-23 last year, and the first three rounds of this year before he was dropped for Hooker.

 

[Oraaaaazio]

Um. What player ratings were you using? And how were you using them?

How does Parish become "5th" in the second half of the year? And how can the first half of 2019 be considered a regression?

If you hover over the data points it tells you where he ranked within the club in each particular round. He hasn't been above 11th or below 15th since round 1 2018. He played in rounds 1-8 and 17-23 last year. He missed round 1 and has played rounds 2-6 so far.

View attachment 664299

I'm just guessing here but I assume the other poster is using the total of each player's ratings for each of the individual games in each of those periods (ratings points for games pre bye/post bye etc) rather than their overall rating at the end of each of those periods which is what you've used in the above post as far as I know. R1 might have been worth 20 points, R2 might be 14, R3 26, R4 1 point etc. and they calculate overall rating based on that so think the other poster has used totals for each series of matches they're referring to (in this example 61 points in the 4 matches) rather than the overall rating after those 4 matches which is also including games prior to R1 in that rating.

Each overall player rating is calculated using the individual rating from every one of their last 40 games, with games 31-40 being decayed to carry less weight toward their overall rating. It's not the best system but there's not much else publicly available to give individual players a rating.

This may have just made everything seem more confusing or you may already know this and I may be wasting my time posting this

 

[fairbump_playon]

Data schmata.

What's wrong with the naked eye and gut feel?

Also... I vote Jake Long

 

[blitzer]

Francis and Parish will be fine.

Myers and Laverde are just not that good.

Stewart I think was underperforming and if we can get him back to his 2017 levels it will improve the side. I still hope he can form a long term partnership with Daniher.

 

[Bombers36]

Francis and Parish will be fine.

Myers and Laverde are just not that good.

Stewart I think was underperforming and if we can get him back to his 2017 levels it will improve the side. I still hope he can form a long term partnership with Daniher.

Great summary of my thoughts - and would love to see Stewy & Joe running amok in a finals series!

 

[vass44]

Yep - Myers and Laverde just not that good, Francis and Parish have plenty of upside, Stewart could be a good third tall forward but is behind Smack and Brown right now - Joe and Jake being the 2 key forwards


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[calyam]

Um. What player ratings were you using? And how were you using them?

How does Parish become "5th" in the second half of the year? And how can the first half of 2019 be considered a regression?

If you hover over the data points it tells you where he ranked within the club in each particular round. He hasn't been above 11th or below 15th since round 1 2018. He played in rounds 1-8 and 17-23 last year. He missed round 1 and has played rounds 2-6 so far.

View attachment 664299



I have a lot of problems with the use of Player Ratings data, even Champion Data doesn't like it, and they're the ones that made it in the first place. But even using it I can't figure out how you draw your conclusions from this. The use of "pre-bye" 2019 data when a player has played only a couple of games is far too small of a sample size to draw any sort of conclusion.

Langford fluctuated between 28th and 19th at the Club. Currently 20th. I guess that's a 1 place regression? His lowest ebb was when he wasn't in the actual team and went backwards because it's a stupid algorithm. He played in rounds 1, 2, 9, 10 and 11-23 (13 was the bye), and rounds 1-2 this year.

View attachment 664300

And then we have Francis, who has ranged from 37th to 28th on the intra-club rankings. He only dropped in ratings in 2019 after he was out of the team and there were no stats to base his ratings on. He played in rounds 19-23 last year, and the first three rounds of this year before he was dropped for Hooker.

View attachment 664301

I use per game ratings rather than the 40 game average that makes up the official rankings. The ratings for each game can be obtained directly from the AFL website via StatsPro. This link should hopefully show the outcome for the Collingwood game. The 40 game average has its own use but it is not terribly transparent and doesn't allow for much analysis.

In the off-season I spent a couple of hours and downloaded all the data for Essendon from 2017 and 2018 and set up a database. I wanted to see whether the data could tell me anything that wasn't immediately obvious to the naked eye. I updated the data this season. The data I used doesn't punish the players for missing games. It is simply an average of the scores they received from the games played during that period.

Naturally, there are some sampling issues. And as a professional economist / statistician I wouldn't publish anything using a sample so small. But I did think it was interesting that these players appeared to be very effective in the second half of last season and woeful in their showings this season. And I would think that most people would agree that all three have been underwhelming this year compared with expectations and where they finished last season.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Francis and Parish will be fine.

Myers and Laverde are just not that good.

Stewart I think was underperforming and if we can get him back to his 2017 levels it will improve the side. I still hope he can form a long term partnership with Daniher.

Yep - Myers and Laverde just not that good, Francis and Parish have plenty of upside, Stewart could be a good third tall forward but is behind Smack and Brown right now - Joe and Jake being the 2 key forwards


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I don’t know how you can say that about Laverde... if anybody has been murdered by injury it’s him. He hasnt had a single good run at it injury free in his whole career. Despite that he’s still bobbed up at times and shown something as a forward, as in he knows where the goals are. And athletically he’s solid - he’s Myers’ size except he can run and jump.

If anything it’s the other way round imo - Parish is the one that just hasn’t come on. I thought he really started strongly in 2016 and to a lesser extent 2017... but not sure there’s been the improvement since.

 

[Lore]

I use per game ratings rather than the 40 game average that makes up the official rankings. The ratings for each game can be obtained directly from the AFL website via StatsPro. This link should hopefully show the outcome for the Collingwood game. The 40 game average has its own use but it is not terribly transparent and doesn't allow for much analysis.

In the off-season I spent a couple of hours and downloaded all the data for Essendon from 2017 and 2018 and set up a database. I wanted to see whether the data could tell me anything that wasn't immediately obvious to the naked eye. I updated the data this season. The data I used doesn't punish the players for missing games. It is simply an average of the scores they received from the games played during that period.

Naturally, there are some sampling issues. And as a professional economist / statistician I wouldn't publish anything using a sample so small. But I did think it was interesting that these players appeared to be very effective in the second half of last season and woeful in their showings this season. And I would think that most people would agree that all three have been underwhelming this year compared with expectations and where they finished last season.

Ah okay. God that site is shocking on mobile, had to switch to desktop to see anything. The javascript just doesn't behave with a touch screen, nothing scrolls correctly anyway. Once I got on a computer I found a different way of accessing them which is a bit easier when you're looking at a specific player in more detail - if you go to the players profile, go to the stats section and scroll to the bottom, there's a round by round table of their stats;
https://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-pro#/Discover/CD_I993817/Parish-Darcy

Player Ratings are based on;

Along with the obvious acts such as goals, marks and disposals, we've included intercepts, spoils, kicking to a contest, smothers, chasing, corralling and many other 'one-percenters' - along with where and when they occurred - to paint a complete picture of ever player's impact on a game.

https://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/ratings-explained

So I've altered the stats that are attached to the bottom of this post to show goals, marks, disposals, intercepts and 1%ers (kick to contest/smother/chase/corral aren't individually listed, they're all just under "one percenter"). I also added the disposal efficiency, rebound 50s, contested possession rate, and tackles. I wanted to add inside 50s as well but ran out of stats to add, so there's a second screenshot with i50s, frees for and against, time on ground, turn overs and spoils

So here we can see a clearly best game in round 3 when he got 18 rating points. Second best was round 6 when he got 9, Rounds 4 and 2 are very similar, about 5 points a piece, and Round 5 against NM he only got 2.5 points. So for now, since it's almost midnight, I'll just look at the best and worst games in this (very limited) dataset, and see if we can figure out what the heck these player ratings might be based on.

First thing I'll say is that a lot of these stats individually seem to make negligible difference to his rating points for that game. Plus or minus a mark is not in itself going to make 10 points of difference or anything like that. So it's a tad more complex.

16 disposals at 62.5% DE, 43.8% contested possession rate, 1 rebound, 2 intercepts, 5 marks, 4 tackles, a free kick, a spoil and 2 inside 50s from 79% time on ground is not really a bad game from him, but it got 2.5 rating points.

Add 8 more disposals (about 30% extra), 8% better DE, increase the contested possession rate by 15% (so if 7 out of 16 were contested, now we have 14 out of 24).an extra rebound, an extra intercept, one less mark and tackle, but one more goal, 4 more inside 50s, a free against and take off a spoil, with 5% more time on ground.

So that's clearly a "better" set of stats and a "better" game, according to the algorithm and the numbers at least, and with only slightly more time on ground. So why were his stats so vastly different in these two games? Here the good game actually seems like an outlier, it's more than double the next best rating.

From looking at the overall player rankings based on this, we can see that player ratings tend to favour midfielders and rucks moreso than any other player type. They make up the majority of the top 100 so it's fairly blatant even at a glance. So my theory here at least with Parish is that he is probably getting better ratings when he has more midfielder stats.

So lets look at his heat maps for those two games, since the player rating description also says that the "where and when" of a stat are important. Unfortunately I can't see exactly when each stat was gathered on these heat maps, they aren't quite that detailed. The best we can do is break it down by quarters which is probably worth referring to alongside watching the extended highlights "player involvements" video things for those two games if you have the time. For now, the heat maps;

North Melbourne:


Melbourne:


Against North he played a wingers game, his touches are mostly on the top wing of the heat map. In the Melbourne game, he played inside, with disposals all over the ground but predominantly in the corridor. Click to open them bigger, I didn't want to stretch this whole post too much longer, it's already resembling an essay.

The other thing to note, consulting my selections tracking spreadsheet, is that Round 3 also happened to be the week Langford was dropped and Myers was withdrawn at the last minute, so we were short two "big inside bodies" and there was more opportunities for Parish to go inside, win contested ball etc.

So I think ultimately what is going on here is that a big contested beast that gets a heap of clearances, inside 50s and kicks a goal or two (think Dangerfield, Martin, etc) is probably going to be best suited to this type of statistical algorithm. I'll look at the rest of the games when I have a chance and post up the heat maps if you don't have a live pass (they're in the app via the match centre and clicking on the players name). I'm going to guess Langford is similar. Both of them have given up some opportunities to go inside with the advent of Shiel in 2019.

As for Francis, well that's a bit of a mystery atm, a mystery for an earlier hour on another day.

What I will say though is that if you had 22 players that were all inside beasts that kicked goals, they still wouldn't all get 30 rating points in a game. Someone has to play on the outside, deep in defence, sit on the bench and provide pressure in forward 50, even if those roles don't get a lot of rating points. So I think the fluctuation in points more likely represents different roles in the team, and the fact that we "bat deep in the midfield" is probably of more value than having one great player that carries the whole team and consistently gets those great scores each week. Coz if that guy gets injured, you're screwed.

Screenshots of Parish's 2019 stats, as described above;

 

[blitzer]

I don’t know how you can say that about Laverde... if anybody has been murdered by injury it’s him. He hasnt had a single good run at it injury free in his whole career. Despite that he’s still bobbed up at times and shown something as a forward, as in he knows where the goals are. And athletically he’s solid - he’s Myers’ size except he can run and jump.

If anything it’s the other way round imo - Parish is the one that just hasn’t come on. I thought he really started strongly in 2016 and to a lesser extent 2017... but not sure there’s been the improvement since.

Or from another perspective - into his 6th year and has produced absolutely nothing. A good quarter here or there and some great VFL performances. This year and last he hasn't had major injury issues just some niggling soft tissue stuff. I'd rather Parish any day of the week. Being injury prone doesn't make you good. Parish has played shitloads more good AFL games than Laverde despite being from the draft after him.

We should actually delist Laverde at the end of the year. Free up a bit of salary cap, draft someone that might actually play some AFL seniors games one day.

 

[yodellinhank]

I'd have called it "most players on our list underperforming"

 

[madrigal]

Myers has been all downhill since he won the most improved award.

 

[calyam]

So lets look at his heat maps for those two games, since the player rating description also says that the "where and when" of a stat are important. Unfortunately I can't see exactly when each stat was gathered on these heat maps, they aren't quite that detailed. The best we can do is break it down by quarters which is probably worth referring to alongside watching the extended highlights "player involvements" video things for those two games if you have the time. For now, the heat maps;

North Melbourne:
View attachment 664642

Melbourne:
View attachment 664643

Against North he played a wingers game, his touches are mostly on the top wing of the heat map. In the Melbourne game, he played inside, with disposals all over the ground but predominantly in the corridor. Click to open them bigger, I didn't want to stretch this whole post too much longer, it's already resembling an essay.

The other thing to note, consulting my selections tracking spreadsheet, is that Round 3 also happened to be the week Langford was dropped and Myers was withdrawn at the last minute, so we were short two "big inside bodies" and there was more opportunities for Parish to go inside, win contested ball etc.

So I think ultimately what is going on here is that a big contested beast that gets a heap of clearances, inside 50s and kicks a goal or two (think Dangerfield, Martin, etc) is probably going to be best suited to this type of statistical algorithm. I'll look at the rest of the games when I have a chance and post up the heat maps if you don't have a live pass (they're in the app via the match centre and clicking on the players name). I'm going to guess Langford is similar. Both of them have given up some opportunities to go inside with the advent of Shiel in 2019.

So my suspicions that it was a role change or as I suggested Shiel squeezing out lesser midfielders may be correct.

Unfortunately, we cannot really determine the degree to which their regression is 'role-based' versus 'performance-based'. Other than to say that there is definitely a role-based explanation.

As for Francis, well that's a bit of a mystery atm, a mystery for an earlier hour on another day.

For Francis it will have less to do with role and more to do output. Towards the end of last season he was intercepting a lot of footy, averaging 8.4 intercept possessions per game, compared with just 4.3 in the first three rounds this year. In 2018, that was good enough for 6th best average in the league. This season the coaching staff has obviously decided that they prefer Hooker and Hurley playing the intercept role.

For both Francis and Langford, it may also be relevant that the team itself was terrible in the first two rounds. Their seasons may look a bit different had they played during the past four rounds when the team was much better.

What I will say though is that if you had 22 players that were all inside beasts that kicked goals, they still wouldn't all get 30 rating points in a game. Someone has to play on the outside, deep in defence, sit on the bench and provide pressure in forward 50, even if those roles don't get a lot of rating points. So I think the fluctuation in points more likely represents different roles in the team, and the fact that we "bat deep in the midfield" is probably of more value than having one great player that carries the whole team and consistently gets those great scores each week. Coz if that guy gets injured, you're screwed.

Yes, position does matter a lot. And thanks for your insights. It makes sense to compare players with similar roles and less sense to directly compare players with very different roles.

Players who initiate possession obviously rate well and understandably so. Whether than be through clearances (players such as Dangerfield or Cripps) or intercepting possessions (such as Rance or McGovern). Forwards who can force turnovers rank very highly (such as Tippa or before his retirement Cyril). Forwards who are creative, who can create something out of nothing also do very well, such as Buddy or Betts.

 

[demondavey]

Hey, I am interested in Parish and Francis to be honest. I’ve read the posts above but from a pure footballing perspective do you think either is up to it? Parish started really well but can’t get in now. In his 4th season you’d think he’d be close to a permanent fixture if he was good enough. Is he good enough? And is he more inside or outside?

Francis intrigues me. Kid can play. Seriously. I reckon he could be the best of that draft but something is up. Is he going to remain behind Hooker & Hurley do you think? Personally, I’d love him playing alongside a fit Lever at Melbourne if he was fit and right.

 

[Lore]

Hey, I am interested in Parish and Francis to be honest. I’ve read the posts above but from a pure footballing perspective do you think either is up to it? Parish started really well but can’t get in now. In his 4th season you’d think he’d be close to a permanent fixture if he was good enough. Is he good enough? And is he more inside or outside?

Francis intrigues me. Kid can play. Seriously. I reckon he could be the best of that draft but something is up. Is he going to remain behind Hooker & Hurley do you think? Personally, I’d love him playing alongside a fit Lever at Melbourne if he was fit and right.

Parish is currently in the side, he is fighting for a spot since we got Shiel over the offseason. He is an inside/outside mid but most of his opportunities are on the outside atm. He’s played most games when he wasn’t injured, but probably needs more inside time to really flourish.

Francis is most likely back in the side this week after he was left out to make room for Hooker after Hooker missed a couple of weeks with injury.

Francis had a rough start to his career, finding his feet at AFL level took a while and he had some mental health struggles to do with probably some combination of the death of his brother who he was very close with and his own quietness/shyness/not instantly fitting in so far from home, at least as far as we know. He eventually requested a last minute trade home to Adelaide at the end of 2017, where he had gone to school. His actual home town is a few hours from Adelaide and 6 from Melbourne so as far as that it’s not that much closer to his family home, but he does know a few people in Adelaide from when he boarded for school and I think his Aunty lives there or something. The Adelaide clubs weren’t really interested and his family wanted him to stay and pursue his dream of playing for Essendon (he grew up supporting us). In interviews he has said he was at a particularly low point at the time and probably made the wrong decision when requesting a trade. He then took a leave of absence early last year, did some basketball coaching or something in Melbourne and generally focused on Putting down roots and making friends. He then requested to train in defence where he was most comfortable, and which probably also suited his other attributes and tank (which is still limited). He had previously been training as a forward for us, and was a Goddard style utility in juniors. He worked back into the senior team by the end of last year. By all reports he is now comfortable and on track at the club with no intention to leave. As I mentioned earlier he started this year in the senior side as a defender, but with Redman and Ridley in the side as medium sized defenders and then Hooker came back to play that tall intercepter role, he ended up getting dropped in round 4. He still has things to work on at VFL level so it’s not the end of the world. I doubt he’d play every week for your mob either when he’s gassed at the end of each quarter. With our forward line decimated by injury he did play a bit forward in the VFL last week and is now on the extended bench of the AFL team. I believe he’ll probably come in for Mitch Brown but we won’t know for sure for a few more hours. Also a few other scenarios where he plays defence and someone else plays forward.

If you really want to know how either of them are going their player threads are a better place to look than some random thread on the second page with a dozen posts in it though. And there’s always their threads on the DTFA too, which I’m guessing is why you’re even here trying to find out about them..

 

[coastalpipeline]

For mine it's the 3L's Langford, Long & Laverde. Some days they may play like Leonidas in VFL, but play like Lohan in the Big League.