2nds Official Swans Academy Thread (Player News and Discussion)

[Jewelsbon]

With all this player exodus you have to worry whether Guldon and Campbell are influenced to the point of not nominating for the swans. That would be a major disappointment but the possibility must now exist.

I met Guldens mum at a function recently and she said the only place Errol sees his footy future is with the Swans, and of course, she spoke glowingly of the academy.

 

[SeanM]

Even if those academy players that had left were drafted as a Cat B rookie. It still would have been quite challenging to get a contract extension and get close to the senior team. Wicks has done well to get his rookie contract renewed. But Jake Brown was only on the list for a season.

For example Luke Parks did well as a defender last year for the allies and in the NEAFL and I assume would have been one of the main contenders for a cat B rookie spot. But the club has signed Brand from Hawthorn, Gould a highly rated defender, BOC from Ireland and Maibaum as a 4th year player returning from injury. And then you have players like COR, Reynolds, Ling, Stoddart, Thurlow, Fox and Mcinerney who are a year older and can also play in defence.

Or if we had signed Ellem as a Cat B rookie. We still have McLean, Amartey and McCartin as young tall forwards. Sinclair might end up playing forward more if Naismith returns. As well as E. Taylor signed as a medium forward. So I assume the club assesses the list to see if there is an opportunity for them.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Just want them on the list already they both look like ******** awesome forward half weapons, Campbell especially..



that third goal though...

First goal was better IMO, but the boy is a gun and even looks the part.

Huge get for us and looking forward to Ed fuming again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RobbieK]

With all this player exodus you have to worry whether Guldon and Campbell are influenced to the point of not nominating for the swans. That would be a major disappointment but the possibility must now exist.

The exodus must also flag the need for an official review of the academy coaching and administration to eliminate problem procedures and personnel.

Can you explain the logic behind this?

Why would a handful of players who are now too old for underage football and were deemed not worthy of drafting by the Swans or any of the other AFL clubs choosing to move to another state to pursue semi-professional football at a higher level than is available in NSW and which offers greater exposure to AFL recruiters in order to keep their AFL dreams alive have any impact on two players who have clearly been earmarked for drafting by the Swans more than a year before they were able to be drafted?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Can you explain the logic behind this?

Why would a handful of players who are now too old for underage football and were deemed not worthy of drafting by the Swans or any of the other AFL clubs choosing to move to another state to pursue semi-professional football at a higher level than is available in NSW and which offers greater exposure to AFL recruiters in order to keep their AFL dreams alive have any impact on two players who have clearly been earmarked for drafting by the Swans more than a year before they were able to be drafted?

You see it simply as a practical and logical step to further their afl ambitions and certainly on one level it is. But it also is an abandonment of the swans in a way.....perhaps a pointed abandonment to send a message to the swans that they were good enough and were overlooked. Many with direct knowledge insights have suggested disharmony and disenchantment with coaches and admin by the academy player group over the way things are done. I worry that a certain amount of infectious decay has set in and walking away is a way of bringing focus to that resentment. Would it influence others in the academy? if decision making is unprincipled and wrong then yes it can. These kids put a lot of faith that their dreams will be handled with care and if they aren’t then it may have deep and lasting impact.

 

[RobbieK]

You see it simply as a practical and logical step to further their afl ambitions and certainly on one level it is. But it also is an abandonment of the swans in a way.....perhaps a pointed abandonment to send a message to the swans that they were good enough and were overlooked. Many with direct knowledge insights have suggested disharmony and disenchantment with coaches and admin by the academy player group over the way things are done. I worry that a certain amount of infectious decay has set in and walking away is a way of bringing focus to that resentment. Would it influence others in the academy? if decision making is unprincipled and wrong then yes it can. These kids put a lot of faith that their dreams will be handled with care and if they aren’t then it may have deep and lasting impact.

This is ridiculous. Abandonment?

These are players in a youth development program. They reached the age at which the youth development program ends and the best players are chosen to take the step to the next level, senior football. They weren't deemed worthy of being drafted, not by the Swans, not by any other club (and they would have all had a look at the players too).

What do you expect the club or the players to do?

These players could chose to hang around and play NEAFL, by when there are semi-professional options for them in SA or Victoria where they will be able to be paid more money, they will play against stronger opposition and will have greater exposure to AFL scouts in the hopes of being drafted at a more mature age, why wouldn't a player who wanted to give themselves the best chance to continue their career outside make the move?

You will always have disgruntled players (and parents) in youth development programs. There will always be people who think they (or their kids) aren't being given a fair go, who think the people in charge of talent recognition and development are not recognising the right people or developing them in the right way. It is the nature of the beast. The players who have made the the grade or look likely to make it (and their parents) are reportedly happy with the system. The ones that haven't made the grade are the ones that complain. I'd suggest that in both cases you have to take their opinions with a grain of salt.

If these guys are good enough they will earn a second chance via the SANFL or VFL. Chances are, though, that we won't ever see any of them at AFL level.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

This is ridiculous. Abandonment?

These are players in a youth development program. They reached the age at which the youth development program ends and the best players are chosen to take the step to the next level, senior football. They weren't deemed worthy of being drafted, not by the Swans, not by any other club (and they would have all had a look at the players too).

What do you expect the club or the players to do?

These players could chose to hang around and play NEAFL, by when there are semi-professional options for them in SA or Victoria where they will be able to be paid more money, they will play against stronger opposition and will have greater exposure to AFL scouts in the hopes of being drafted at a more mature age, why wouldn't a player who wanted to give themselves the best chance to continue their career outside make the move?

You will always have disgruntled players (and parents) in youth development programs. There will always be people who think they (or their kids) aren't being given a fair go, who think the people in charge of talent recognition and development are not recognising the right people or developing them in the right way. It is the nature of the beast. The players who have made the the grade or look likely to make it (and their parents) are reportedly happy with the system. The ones that haven't made the grade are the ones that complain. I'd suggest that in both cases you have to take their opinions with a grain of salt.

If these guys are good enough they will earn a second chance via the SANFL or VFL. Chances are, though, that we won't ever see any of them at AFL level.

You clearly haven’t read the entire thread and it’s feedback on some of the things wrong within the academy from those who are in a position to observe. On face value all that you say rings true and I’ve even posted several times in the same way only to be pulled up...... but there have been several who repeatedly suggest the system has multiple problems especially around player treatment and using most as fodder to make a few successes without care. I’m not in a position to say positively what’s wrong but if:

- a couple posters with direct involvement in academy say so :and

- a change of pattern occurs in human behaviour where we now get multiple departures

Then probability dictates at least part of the motivation may be resentment whether or not you believe that to be ridiculous.

And yes I accept SANFL and VFL offer better pathway

 

[Ralphyboy]

Even if those academy players that had left were drafted as a Cat B rookie. It still would have been quite challenging to get a contract extension and get close to the senior team. Wicks has done well to get his rookie contract renewed. But Jake Brown was only on the list for a season.

For example Luke Parks did well as a defender last year for the allies and in the NEAFL and I assume would have been one of the main contenders for a cat B rookie spot. But the club has signed Brand from Hawthorn, Gould a highly rated defender, BOC from Ireland and Maibaum as a 4th year player returning from injury. And then you have players like COR, Reynolds, Ling, Stoddart, Thurlow, Fox and Mcinerney who are a year older and can also play in defence.

Or if we had signed Ellem as a Cat B rookie. We still have McLean, Amartey and McCartin as young tall forwards. Sinclair might end up playing forward more if Naismith returns. As well as E. Taylor signed as a medium forward. So I assume the club assesses the list to see if there is an opportunity for them.

I think the swans are very short of tall forwards. They are pursuing a small forward structure, a la richmond, however they will need to move blakey to the forward line. Ellem would have been a solid 195cm forward. However his development did seem to plateau towards the back of last year, particularly in terms of contested marking. Hopefully his time at west adelaide will help him grow in this area.

 

[Ralphyboy]

You clearly haven’t read the entire thread and it’s feedback on some of the things wrong within the academy from those who are in a position to observe. On face value all that you say rings true and I’ve even posted several times in the same way only to be pulled up...... but there have been several who repeatedly suggest the system has multiple problems especially around player treatment and using most as fodder to make a few successes without care. I’m not in a position to say positively what’s wrong but if:

- a couple posters with direct involvement in academy say so :and

- a change of pattern occurs in human behaviour where we now get multiple departures

Then probability dictates at least part of the motivation may be resentment whether or not you believe that to be ridiculous.

And yes I accept SANFL and VFL offer better pathway

Hi Puke, I have heard significant discontent with the way the allies operate, however all I have heard in terms of criticism of the academy is that they play as a team too much. I haven't really heard any specific criticism of their methods or commitment.

I fully agree that for next years draft the over agers should have gone to sanfl. I think only sam thorne is one of the elite level players still giving the NDS a crack. I don't see this as a failure of the academy, rather a very positive evolution of the program, where players are now being produced for the Sanfl. There is no doubt the NDS program for this year was looking very lean at the time the players had to decide to go to sanfl. They were facing a younger swans list and so possibly playing in premier league all year. I'm not sure if that holds so true now as the injuries seemed to risen again.

I am really excited to track how the academy players go in the sanfl. I really hope they smash it in the senior teams and not languish in the reserves. Previous players like veale who went to sturt did ok.

 

[DavyRed]

NDS squad has been announced. No real surprises that I can think of, given some of the boys who have gone elsewhere.

 

[SNORC]

First goal was better IMO, but the boy is a gun and even looks the part.

Huge get for us and looking forward to Ed fuming again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They have to nominate Swans as their preference don't they for Swans to get rights?

 

[DST]

You clearly haven’t read the entire thread and it’s feedback on some of the things wrong within the academy from those who are in a position to observe. On face value all that you say rings true and I’ve even posted several times in the same way only to be pulled up...... but there have been several who repeatedly suggest the system has multiple problems especially around player treatment and using most as fodder to make a few successes without care. I’m not in a position to say positively what’s wrong but if:

- a couple posters with direct involvement in academy say so :and

- a change of pattern occurs in human behaviour where we now get multiple departures

Then probability dictates at least part of the motivation may be resentment whether or not you believe that to be ridiculous.

And yes I accept SANFL and VFL offer better pathway

Puke, I don't think you understand the context that these statements have been made.

There will always be parents/players that feel like they have been let down, but it is a very big positive that this years crop of players have actually decided to move to semi professional comps such as the SANFL and VFL and not stay on as top ups for the Swans reserves program as it shows that the program is now starting to develop a deeper layer of talent that can get onto lists in the football states and play semi professionally. In previous years the majority of boys coming out of the academy were not afforded the opportunity as they were not at the standard.

So far from being seen as abandonment of the club (what ever that is supposed to mean), the academy and the club will see this as being a good thing as their mission is to not only bring along kids to play at a senior AFL standard but is to also increase the number of kids playing at the semi professional level, whether that be in SANFL or VFL and hopefully back to the NEAFL in the future.

Oh and this question of abandonment will have absolutely zero effect on whether Gulden or Campbell go on to be drafted by us and play their football with the Sydney football club..

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Puke, I don't think you understand the context that these statements have been made.

There will always be parents/players that feel like they have been let down, but it is a very big positive that this years crop of players have actually decided to move to semi professional comps such as the SANFL and VFL and not stay on as top ups for the Swans reserves program as it shows that the program is now starting to develop a deeper layer of talent that can get onto lists in the football states and play semi professionally. In previous years the majority of boys coming out of the academy were not afforded the opportunity as they were not at the standard.

So far from being seen as abandonment of the club (what ever that is supposed to mean), the academy and the club will see this as being a good thing as their mission is to not only bring along kids to play at a senior AFL standard but is to also increase the number of kids playing at the semi professional level, whether that be in SANFL or VFL and hopefully back to the NEAFL in the future.

Oh and this question of abandonment will have absolutely zero effect on whether Gulden or Campbell go on to be drafted by us and play their football with the Sydney football club..

Ok

 

[Arwib]

It's worth remembering that the SANFL (at least $400k) and VFL salary caps ($380k) are higher than the NEAFL ones ($225k except Canberra is $300k), all things being equal you'd expect to see the better players coming out of youth development lured down to those comps.

 

[Nool Carpenna]

Anybody out at BISP for the Academy v SAFL U/22 game?

 

[Skeparovic]

Sydney will also benefit from its academy with access to likely first-round midfielder Braeden Campbell, smart small Errol Gulden and also Marco Rossman, a penetrating wingman/half forward.

Rioli, Silvagni, more: Why your club may still get a draft gun

Draft guru Cal Twomey looks at this year's crop linked to clubs via Academies and the father-son rule

www.afl.com.au

Any academy watchers know about Marco Rossman as I haven't seen his name really mentioned before?

 

[BloodySwan]

AFL Draft Power Rankings: The top 20 prospects for 2020

Despite no live action to assess, ESPN.com.au draft expert Chris Doerre has revealed his first Power Rankings of the 2020 draft, having scrutinised the prospects' 2019 seasons closely.

www.espn.com.au

Campbell & Gulden sneaking in at 19 & 20

 

[caesar88]

AFL Draft Power Rankings: The top 20 prospects for 2020

Despite no live action to assess, ESPN.com.au draft expert Chris Doerre has revealed his first Power Rankings of the 2020 draft, having scrutinised the prospects' 2019 seasons closely.

www.espn.com.au

Campbell & Gulden sneaking in at 19 & 20

Any list that does not have Will Philips at 1 is nonsense IMO. Which will be every list because of course all the hype is about fancy key position player (they never learn...)

 

[Angry Red Bull]

AFL Draft Power Rankings: The top 20 prospects for 2020

Despite no live action to assess, ESPN.com.au draft expert Chris Doerre has revealed his first Power Rankings of the 2020 draft, having scrutinised the prospects' 2019 seasons closely.

www.espn.com.au

Campbell & Gulden sneaking in at 19 & 20

How does Campbell win man of the match in the futures game yet can’t crack it for top ten?

 

[Tesla Tenet]

How does Campbell win man of the match in the futures game yet can’t crack it for top ten?

I hope all recruiters think the same way!

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[caesar88]

How does Campbell win man of the match in the futures game yet can’t crack it for top ten?

Agree I've liked what I've seen of Campbell more than half the top ten. It's not been an overly impressive draft from what I've seen so far though. Usually there are a handful I feel confident will become gun players. This year there's a grand total of two (IMO): Philips and Holland.

Shame none of them will get to mount much of a case for themselves this year though.

 

[RobbieK]

How does Campbell win man of the match in the futures game yet can’t crack it for top ten?

Because players get drafted on more than just their performance in a single match?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Because players get drafted on more than just their performance in a single match?

Yeah sure but he was selected for that game meaning he was considered amongst the best at that age and then outperformed rivals in the peak game. Seems pretty persuasive if you ask me.

 

[RobbieK]

Yeah sure but he was selected for that game meaning he was considered amongst the best at that age and then outperformed rivals in the peak game. Seems pretty persuasive if you ask me.

Yeah, he was selected for that game along with 47 others. He performed very well and the list that was posted had him at 19th, with a projected range going as high as pick 10...
So he is still considered among the best by the author of that list. You are acting like he was totally ignored.

The biggest hindrance to him cracking the top 10 is size. How many sub 180cm players have been a top 10 draft pick in recent years?

 

[Chaisa]

Yeah, he was selected for that game along with 47 others. He performed very well and the list that was posted had him at 19th, with a projected range going as high as pick 10...
So he is still considered among the best by the author of that list. You are acting like he was totally ignored.

The biggest hindrance to him cracking the top 10 is size. How many sub 180cm players have been a top 10 draft pick in recent years?

More than you'd expect. Serong, Henry, Rankine, McGrath, Ainsworth are all under 180cm and went Top 10 in the last five drafts.

Every chance Campbell can crack 180cm by the end of the year anyway. It's not a Gulden style situation where his height will probably see him slide.