List Mgmt. Port Adelaide list management

[It Just Is]

Slightly off topic.. Lachie Henderson is 196cm??

Always thought he was in that slightly undersized 192-3cm range.

 

[philthy05]

i think the overrating of height is just the in thing at the moment, it's because GWS have 2/3 of them is why everyone is so worried. but really can they play 3 super tall forwards + ruckmen in the same team without being a liability.

i think the only way gws can play patton/boyd/cameron in the same team is to take in one genuine ruckman and boyd must develop into a genuine 2nd ruck / key forward. which is possible.

 

[Power Raid]

are you seriously worried about McGovern, Fitzpatrick, Casboult, Rowe, Carlisle( as a forward) or are you just making up numbers? i'f any of those walked up to Hombsch at the start of a game you would consider that a win already.

here's a list of what i would call quality 196cm+ forwards in the AFL right now: Henderson, Kennedy, Franklin, Tippett, Cloke, Hawkins. theres 6. maybe i missed 1 or 2 but the ones i listed thats 1 player for every 3 clubs. i think the overrating of height is just the in thing at the moment, it's because GWS have 2/3 of them is why everyone is so worried. but really can they play 3 super tall forwards + ruckmen in the same team without being a liability.

I think you are two steps ahead in your thinking and thus limited to the stars. I will emphasis this is a trend which means you should not only consider the big guys you rate but the players developing through the ranks.

Football squads start with a recruitment program and there is evidence there is a trend to recruit 196+cm plus KPFs attest to by a quick review of AFL lists. Once recruited, players are developed and some will become AFL standard and others won't. Most clubs have at least one 196cm forward who is tomorrow's promise or already performing. Just look at PAFCs investment in Butcher and Westhoff to highlight our club has had similar ambitions.

Again, focusing on smaller players like Hombsche is irrelevant noise. There will always be smaller players playing a role. Just because there is a trend toward 196+cm KPF doesn't mean 196-cm players can't play the game as evidenced by Brent Harvey.

Lastly, you should look at the performance of clubs who have a 196+cm forward in form. It is hard to deny that isn't something that all clubs seek to recreate for themselves.

 

[Power Raid]

Slightly off topic.. Lachie Henderson is 196cm??

Always thought he was in that slightly undersized 192-3cm range.

It is hard to work out exactly how tall some of these guys are as they are listed on different website at different heights

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-carlton-blues--lachlan-henderson

 

[Power Raid]

are you seriously worried about McGovern, Fitzpatrick, Casboult, Rowe, Carlisle( as a forward) or are you just making up numbers? i'f any of those walked up to Hombsch at the start of a game you would consider that a win already.

here's a list of what i would call quality 196cm+ forwards in the AFL right now: Henderson, Kennedy, Franklin, Tippett, Cloke, Hawkins. theres 6. maybe i missed 1 or 2 but the ones i listed thats 1 player for every 3 clubs. i think the overrating of height is just the in thing at the moment, it's because GWS have 2/3 of them is why everyone is so worried. but really can they play 3 super tall forwards + ruckmen in the same team without being a liability.

Let me word it another way

How many 196+cm forwards were playing when modra, dunstall and lockett were dominating?

 

[Hellgood]

Let me word it another way

How many 196+cm forwards were playing when modra, dunstall and lockett were dominating?

Off the top of my head (I'm a bit young for that era), but Paul Salmon and Corey McKernan.

 

[FallingLiefs]

Let me word it another way

How many 196+cm forwards were playing when modra, dunstall and lockett were dominating?

long term and i mean long term, i completely agree with you. but do we expect to be plagued with excessively large forwards for the time we are pushing for a flag? I agree the AFL tending towards these huge forwards will keep on going. however i think it is still a very very slow progression. judging by the amount of real quality junior tall forwards in the afl at the moment under 21 (i would say Daniher and maybe Patton/Boyd), it's not really going to change to every team has 1 or maybe 2 for another decade or 2 at least. this is why i think the GWS having 2 have sent everyone into a craze, because they being so rare to have 2 in one team. why recruit a player now that we need in maybe 15-20 years? Also for every really promising power forward ie Patton there is a Butcher, Vickery and Cordy. with up and coming superstars some progress some dont, some pop up from nowhere.

as far as your point about the large amount of ok 2nd or 3rd string forwards developing at other clubs i agree, there are many more. although is this more a reaction or cause of the expected need of taller players. it would have to be asked would some of these been drafted if they were 5cm less, or will they be as good as someone undrafted who's shorter. As far as our (i hate this term) premiership window i don't see it as a pressing issue and i would prefer producing higher quality natural KPP's. another not often spoken about factor in this is how many ruckman height players can you fit in one team without sacrificing too much run. AFL is a running game and height vs. run will surely be a conversation like it is every week in our changes thread for a long time yet. if we're going to talk about the trends of tall forwards, perhaps we should talk about the fact Fremantle almost won a flag last year with 1 tall forward and 2 ruckman aswell.

 

[philthy05]

for defenders its more important to be agile and have closing speed then it is to have height. usually in defense you will have numbers to come across and help. hence why it doesnt really matter if you are 193cm or 198 cm in defense its more important to be able to stay with your player on a lead and be able to break away to help on another forward if you need to.

in offense you often have to contend with multiple defenders coming over the top and superior numbers against you so height can be a valuable asset.


i sort of think the opposite to many here. with the value teams are placing on total team defense and especially forward pressure to lock the ball in teams will always look at exposing teams who have slower players who you can run players off of and teams will want players in their f50 who can put pressure to keep the ball in.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

A Hawkins sized key forward and we would be pretty much complete. Maybe Mitchell Harvey will be that player.

Mind you a 211cm ruckman would be handy. We taught Daniel Bass to kick.

 

[sog35]

A Hawkins sized key forward and we would be pretty much complete. Maybe Mitchell Harvey will be that player.

Mind you a 211cm ruckman would be handy. We taught Daniel Bass to kick.

Surely West Coast would jump at a bigger Cox.

 

[Jonts]

Wesley or cox look worthy of a spot

There is no limit on the amount of international rookies yeah?

Sent from my GT-I9197 using Tapatalk

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Mark Ricciuto thinks we are a key forward away from sustained success.

Key forward last piece of Power puzzle

He thinks draft names that will be on Port Adelaide’s radar will be Peter Wright (200cm forward/ruck from Calder Cannons), Hugh Goddard (cousin of Brendon), Paddy McCartin (tough competitor from the country) and two South Australians from West Adelaide in Jess Watchman (196cm key forward) and Sam Durdin (196cm key position).

At the trade table he nominates Scott Lycett (that's an easy out) but thinks he will cost our first two draft picks or a player and second rounder.

 

[Comettski_1]

Mark Ricciuto thinks we are a key forward away from sustained success.

Key forward last piece of Power puzzle

He thinks draft names that will be on Port Adelaide’s radar will be Peter Wright (200cm forward/ruck from Calder Cannons), Hugh Goddard (cousin of Brendon), Paddy McCartin (tough competitor from the country) and two South Australians from West Adelaide in Jess Watchman (196cm key forward) and Sam Durdin (196cm key position).

At the trade table he nominates Scott Lycett (that's an easy out) but thinks he will cost our first two draft picks or a player and second rounder.

Surprised that developing Shaw and Harvey or using Redden/Lobbe as a KPF wasn't mentioned as options.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Hahaha, he thinks Lycett will cost our first two draft picks? Dreeaaaaming.

Also, Wright, McCartin and Goddard? Dreeeeeaaaming haha.

Watchman should be available at our first pick, but we'll have to see how he goes this year to see whether he is worth it or not.

 

[PJ Power]

The issue with key forwards is more that we will be competing with GC and GWS for the next five years for supremacy.
Can Harvey, Shaw +/- Butcher be ever as dangerous as what those two teams have?

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Surprised that developing Shaw and Harvey or using Redden/Lobbe as a KPF wasn't mentioned as options.

That's assuming a level of knowledge of our list beyond the superficial.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

The issue with key forwards is more that we will be competing with GC and GWS for the next five years for supremacy.
Can Harvey, Shaw +/- Butcher be ever as dangerous as what those two teams have?

Day or Patton would be nice to have. *sigh*

 

[1954]

Day or Patton would be nice to have. *sigh*

Sam Day is the one player who would top our list off perfectly, for a bloke of his size to almost go to ground, and then balance and run down Harvey was sensational.

The game is evolving again though, if we still played 70's / 80's style footy, GWS and Gold Coast, with their plethora of talls would be dominating the comp by now, but well coached smaller teams with numerous elite runners can combat their lack of height by keeping the ball moving, having players fill up the holes across half forward, and not allowing the big forwards to get one out, ala the big bearded bloke who absolutely monstered Bobby Carlile when GC knocked us off under MP.

Redden is still our wild card, but time is running out for him for this season, and as has already been said on match threads, Mitch Harvey is looking very promising for an 18 yo.

It's too early to give an honest assessment on Mason Shaw, who had a mainly wasted year in the south magoos, but on what I have seen ( so far ) he doesn't look like a KPP, more a Westhoff type, but let's hope he is a Justin, and not a Matthew.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

Tbh I am happy with how Harvey is developing. 18 years old and already looking good in the SANFL level. Still have Shaw to come back as well.

Don't think we are in desparate need.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Sam Day signed a long term deal there so I think his career will be at the GC.

Dan Gorringe on the otherhand might be gettable. Wanted to come here last year and his value has dropped since then. Certainly has shown more than Lycett.

 

[Macca19]

2 first round picks for Lycett? I nearly spat out my coffee then.

 

[cortez]

Our premiership window is now. Harvey and Shaw are 3 years away and the jury is out on Butch (I still have some faith) so we need to trade hard for a forward.

 

[RossFC]

When did Lycett become better than Gary Ablett?

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

2 first round picks for Lycett? I nearly spat out my coffee then.

When did Lycett become better than Gary Ablett?

Your first two picks =/= two first round picks.

If you make a prelim (looking pretty likely on current form) your first two picks would be about late teens and late 30s. A late teens pick might be slight overs in my view, late 30s pick would be massive unders.

 

[Andre]

Sam Day is the one player who would top our list off perfectly, for a bloke of his size to almost go to ground, and then balance and run down Harvey was sensational.

The game is evolving again though, if we still played 70's / 80's style footy, GWS and Gold Coast, with their plethora of talls would be dominating the comp by now, but well coached smaller teams with numerous elite runners can combat their lack of height by keeping the ball moving, having players fill up the holes across half forward, and not allowing the big forwards to get one out, ala the big bearded bloke who absolutely monstered Bobby Carlile when GC knocked us off under MP.

So much this. A genuine quality second tall forward would be great for us, but the move to the cap has brought the ability to run all day even more to the fore as a counter to talls being so much more valuable then smalls. The cap will inevitably go down to 100 or so within 3 years. Talls like the Hoff that can run everywhere will become even more valuable, but talls, no matter how good, that aren't versatile, a side won't be able to play too many of them. GWS especially may find their glut of tall riches corresponds with not being able to play all of them (even more than now). If they were really good list managers they'd see the writing on the wall and get maximum picks or a gun midfielder and a pick in return in the next year or two, but I don't think they will do it.