Autopsy Practice Match, 2023: St.Kilda v Essendon

[hangdog]

Might just point out Bytel vs Parish from Friday's game...

Bytel: 16d, 3m, 7tk, 4 score involvements, 9 contested possessions, 60% TOG
Parish: 10d, 0m, 4tk, 2 score involvements, 7 contested possessions, 69% TOG.

I could see Lyon frothing over having 2 very good tagging mids.

 

[plugger66]

But you can't completely dismiss his TOG if you're going to bash his disposal count. I haven't heard a thing about his inability to run out a game since he's come to the club. Only that Batchelor was making him work on his outside game and run & spread. That's got nothing to do with his fitness or stamina.

2021 he had 13 games, with 5 as the activated sub. He also dominated these stats among the Rising Stars

• 1st Tackles
• 3rd ave stoppage clearances
• 4th clearances per game, total clearances & total stoppage clearances
• 5th Centre clearances per game

Those are great stats when you consider he only had 8 games where he was playing from ball up. He played 88% game time in the last game vs Freo where he got 17 disp (6 contested), 2 goals and 7 tackles. I'd take that any day given his quality over from 25 Seb Ross

He averaged 54.2% TOG that season and 11.5 disp, 4.6 tackles and 6.2 contested possessions. With the small opportunities he's had, he's shown a lot to get excited about. I think part of his problem is that his possessions aren't flashy and stand out like a Dusty or de Goey. A bit like Crouch.

Also, as was summarised before by Gringo, he's been one of the unluckiest players in recent memory with his draft year and first year ruled out with a back injury, plus 2 years of covid affected development/opportunity. We should all remember that he was touted highly enough to be ranked next to Walsh and King, and his underage numbers were mental. Just needs to be given a proper shot.

One of the big reasons he has limited game time is one of the big reasons he doesn’t play. He is a genuine mid as are crouch Steele and maybe to a lesser extent Ross. If those 3 play it’s nearly impossible for bytel to play or if he does then he can’t play a lot of game time. I still haven’t seen anyone really explain how bytel plays next week if those 3 do. Even if Ross doesn’t I doubt bytel does unless windhanger misses

 

[hangdog]

2021

Who was he "gifted" games over at that time? Dunstan in round 23?

 

[plugger66]

Madness if the AFL doesnt do this at some point.

Carlton, Dogs, Saints all have the perfect stadiums to do 15-20k and host the minnows and i say that as someone who would find it extremely less convenient for that to happen than to keep them at Marvel.

Almighty dollar for AFL owning Marvel will probably preclude it.

I’d say the millions to set those grounds up would preclude it as would Kingston council as far as Moorabbin is concerned. Unfortunately the days of local games is well and truely over.

 

[phantom13]

That game has been completely overblown. Stewart had nearly the most possessions for Geelong and was rated second best for them in the match report.

If you watched that game his output and impact was way down.

Anyone having him in Geelongs best is being very very generous,

He plays loose across half back, hes gonna get touches, Sharman limited his impact.

 

[bird_man]

Who was he "gifted" games over at that time? Dunstan in round 23?

No Dunstan for the first half of the 2021

It’s pretty well known that Dunstan was told he likely wasn’t going to play early in the year, this is despite him dominating VFL footy.

Bytel was getting games at AFL level and not giving a lot and was then well outperformed by Dunstan when they finally gave in.

Not sure anyone can argue with that.

I have no issue with this by the way. I think it was the right call at the time but how long do you keep that going before you think he should just get a game on merit?

 

[CursingFijian]

Yeah, just don't think they're that far ahead of him. Clark was terrible 1st praccy, excellent the next. Windy was OK in the 1st praccy. Bytel probably better in the 2nd one although played different positions. Was also good in the 1st one, but came on later. Ross Crouch Gresh and Steele would be comfortably ahead of all I would think. Bytel does need to add another string to help him get games tho like forward

I wasn't willing to say Clark was poor after the first praccy game (underwhelming was my preferred descriptor) and I'm not prepared to say he was excellent after this one. But I definitely feel more reassured about his tracking this week.

He still gets does a dinky kick out of a tackle situation fairly often, when his attempt to break the tackle fails. They pretty much all worked out this game, but really could be anything.

With Bytel I can understand why on paper he isn't the best fit with Crouch and Steele, but I thought we definitely looked better when he was in on the weekend.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

If you watched that game his output and impact was way down.

Anyone having him in Geelongs best is being very very generous,

He plays loose across half back, hes gonna get touches, Sharman limited his impact.

Yeah if anything that says that had Sharman not limited his impact Stewart would have been best on ground and dominated us

 

[phantom13]

I’d say the millions to set those grounds up would preclude it as would Kingston council as far as Moorabbin is concerned. Unfortunately the days of local games is well and truely over.

Oh no doubt but also we just spent whatever we spent ($7m) if you do the seating at the same time its hundred of thousands (possibly tens) not millions.

AFL owns Marvel they want the games there but 15k at RSEA or Ikon or Whitten would be so much cooler to watch that 15k at Marvel when we play a lowly GWS or GC on a Sunday arvo in July.

 

[phantom13]

Yeah if anything that says that had Sharman not limited his impact Stewart would have been best on ground and dominated us

I think this is agreeing with me?

 

[plugger66]

If you watched that game his output and impact was way down.

Anyone having him in Geelongs best is being very very generous,

He plays loose across half back, hes gonna get touches, Sharman limited his impact.

He may have limited his impact but I still think his game was way overblown. As you say he plays loose. We just played someone on him so you would expect his stats to be down. Was that due to Sharman or just not letting him be loose. Having said that his stats in that game were nearly all average or above average for the season.

 

[Hubnester]

I seem to recall he played as a defensive forward on Tom Stewart and took him completely out of the game.

If you look at his stats for that game without the context it looks pretty poor

That was a fascinating effort too. You're right about context, easy to look at that game and say he still had 25+, how was that a good job?

But he completely nullified Stewart's strengths which are supposedly his intercept and rebound game. Only one intercept mark, and about halved his average metres gained. Take out Sharman's influence you could argue he potentially changes the result of that game. But it could all just be a big coincidence too.

 

[Cairnsman]

Sharman is just way off the pace, it's not that hard to accept is it? A project player taken in the 2021 mid season draft, not quite 2020 but still had its challenges that year.

 

[plugger66]

Oh no doubt but also we just spent whatever we spent ($7m) if you do the seating at the same time its hundred of thousands (possibly tens) not millions.

AFL owns Marvel they want the games there but 15k at RSEA or Ikon or Whitten would be so much cooler to watch that 15k at Marvel when we play a lowly GWS or GC on a Sunday arvo in July.

Geelong has spent over a hundred million if not much more to get it to 40k. There isn’t any point in having a ground holding 15k in the suburb where they train. Members would miss out going. That would cause an uproar so it would have to hold a minimum of 20k. To get to that figure with what people expect at the footy these days would mean one very big grandstand so it would cost many millions. And as you said the afl won’t let it happen and I’d be close to 100% sure the council would be a huge no.

 

[phantom13]

He may have limited his impact but I still think his game was way overblown. As you say he plays loose. We just played someone on him so you would expect his stats to be down. Was that due to Sharman or just not letting him be loose. Having said that his stats in that game were nearly all average or above average for the season.

You think its overblown to suggest a guy in his... 6th game? Completely neutering a 4 time all Australians impact in a game we won is important?

Fair enough.

 

[phantom13]

That was a fascinating effort too. You're right about context, easy to look at that game and say he still had 25+, how was that a good job?

But he completely nullified Stewart's strengths which are supposedly his intercept and rebound game. Only one intercept mark, and about halved his average metres gained. Take out Sharman's influence you could argue he potentially changes the result of that game. But it could all just be a big coincidence too.

We also kicked 12 behinds, he likely took 7-8 kick ins (which granted he does every week) but between that, intercept marks and how little run and carry he provided.

Really great game from Sharman.

 

[The Punter]

Also, worth mentioning, something happened in that Round 9 game that has not happened since.

Geelong lost.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I think this is agreeing with me?

Yes!

 

[plugger66]

You think its overblown to suggest a guy in his... 6th game? Completely neutering a 4 time all Australians impact in a game we won is important?

Fair enough.

Completely neutering? Ok then Now let’s go back and forth with neither of us changing our mind.

 

[plugger66]

We also kicked 12 behinds, he likely took 7-8 kick ins (which granted he does every week) but between that, intercept marks and how little run and carry he provided.

Really great game from Sharman.

Or even 2 kick ins that counted as stats.

 

[phantom13]

Completely neutering? Ok then Now let’s go back and forth with neither of us changing our mind.

Well its odd, you acknowlege that Sharman did the job and that we won and that Stewart was down a little on his usual but then say the fact that it was Sharman (in his whatever less than 10 games) and the fact that Stewart still had alot of touches means it was overblown.

Did he help limit Stewarts influence? Seems pretty undisputable he did, your mileage might vary but im not gonna bemoan a few people being amped to see it from a 6 or 7 gamer.

We all frothed Windy doing run with roles last year but were not allowed to be a bit pumped for Sharman showing hes not just a goal kicker?

 

[phantom13]

Or even 2 kick ins that counted as stats.

Was it? Cant say ive ever looked up the stats (wouldnt know where to) nor would it necesarily matter against his averages cause i would assume he takes a similar number each week.

 

[Cairnsman]

Also, worth mentioning, something happened in that Round 9 game that has not happened since.

Geelong lost.

Geelong in R21 was when Sharman played in defence, not R9, we lost by 45 that day so I'm scratching my head as to why anyone in the backline gets a pat on the back that day.

 

[Cairnsman]

We lost

Well its odd, you acknowlege that Sharman did the job and that we won and that Stewart was down a little on his usual but then say the fact that it was Sharman (in his whatever less than 10 games) and the fact that Stewart still had alot of touches means it was overblown.

Did he help limit Stewarts influence? Seems pretty undisputable he did, your mileage might vary but im not gonna bemoan a few people being amped to see it from a 6 or 7 gamer.

We all frothed Windy doing run with roles last year but were not allowed to be a bit pumped for Sharman showing hes not just a goal kicker?

We lost by 45 in R21 when Sharman played down back...not sure why anyone I'd getting praise let alone Sharman.

Confusing with R9 win aren't we?

 

[plugger66]

Well its odd, you acknowlege that Sharman did the job and that we won and that Stewart was down a little on his usual but then say the fact that it was Sharman (in his whatever less than 10 games) and the fact that Stewart still had alot of touches means it was overblown.

Did he help limit Stewarts influence? Seems pretty undisputable he did, your mileage might vary but im not gonna bemoan a few people being amped to see it from a 6 or 7 gamer.

We all frothed Windy doing run with roles last year but were not allowed to be a bit pumped for Sharman showing hes not just a goal kicker?

I will let you have the last say. Firstly overblown doesn’t mean I think Sharman didn’t do an ok job. I still say the way it was written on here at the time was overblown. Also I, others can do it differently, don’t rate a game on a persons age or the amount of games played. If I rated windhanger tagging for that game it was because of how he played not his age or games played. Can’t really remember how I rated it though. I think I rated it highly. And lastly even if sharmans game was not overblown surely we are now discussing him as a forward as I doubt Sharman will go back under Lyon. At the moment as a forward Sharman is rated very lowly by Lyon. That game against Stewart is having no bearing on being selected or not as it’s irrelevant.

Ignore that last bit. Obviously he played forward so it is relevant. I’m getting Alzheimer’s


I’m getting Alzheimer’s


I’m getting Alzheimer’s