Autopsy Practice Match, 2023: St.Kilda v Essendon

[plugger66]

Of the 11 games St Kilda lost last year, St Kilda were either in front or level after half-time in six of them. I would posit that all of those games were winnable.

Weren’t we also behind in about 5 at half time and actually won. I reckon we won and lost games because we had an average lost and an average midfield. An average list can play well and poorly in 2 consecutive weeks or even halves.

 

[plugger66]

We don't, but for me and likely most others we want him to succeed because he has something that pretty much all our mids don't possess and that is he is very clean with his disposal. Clark is as well by foot but Bytel is better by hand and quicker. He just needs to lift his production so I hope he can - looked very fit this summer

I must miss this clean stuff. I agree he is a one grabber but his kicking and handball looks as average as most mids. The one thing he does have that we don’t need is mid who can only play as a mid who like most of our regular mids has average pace. My mum is faster than Clark but he has skills none of our regular mids have.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Not sure about VFL reports but I'd did watch him and can tell you from my point of view (And many others on here at the time) he was just going ok. Not what you'd expect from a guy expected to make the jump to afl.

You can keep making excuses for him but I doubt the club is at this stage. He was lucky to get a contract last year, had to wait until after trade period IIRC.

At 23 and wirh 4 pre seasons under your belt he's had more than enough time to prove he is AFL standard. He's running out of time now.

His last three games were 28, 29, 28 disposals, 10 and 13 tackles in the last 2.

 

[Minga]

My only issue with Clark is Defensive spread.
If he can be like Dusty circa 2017-20 whereby he was just an attacking mid, and the rest of the midfield and even forward half had that intense defensive pressure and spread then I think it can work.
Or he has less TOG and is utilised more in shorter bursts.

There's no doubt he has talent and a point of difference, but if there's a turnover he's very slow to react and chase. I've seen more than a handful of times where he looks like he's on a treadmill trying to chase after opposition players and looks completely and utterly gassed.

IMO Clark’s best defensive game is his offensive game. He throws himself into the contest, and has a knack for winning the ball and pushing it forward / sifting through congestion. He’s quite prominent in the contest surprising, and I reckon the more he does of that the more he negates the opposition winning the ball thus requiring us to defend less. You could say this about every player obviously, but you can actually see it in Clark’s game most of the time he plays. The practice match against Essendon seemed to be a good example of that.

However, yes. He’s not really a defensive player through and through, and he won’t make up ground if the balls gone past him already. But as long as he’s playing his role well then we shouldn’t expect him to be something he’s not. And his role is very valuable, and he hasn’t even touched the surface of his potential ability to impact a game yet… but we’ll see.

His Hawthorn game in 2021 I believe should be the type of role he’s given the opportunity to work with. Best game he has played at the club.

Round 7, 2021, Hunter Clark:

2 Goals
26 Disposals
6 Tackles
472 metres gained
Off the bench

Video

Hunter Clark produces a simply stunning individual goal, smothering a Hawk's kick and selling candy to perfection

www.saints.com.au

 

[The Punter]

Weren’t we also behind in about 5 at half time and actually won. I reckon we won and lost games because we had an average lost and an average midfield. An average list can play well and poorly in 2 consecutive weeks or even halves.

I was replying to a post suggesting most games we lost weren't winnable, and the facts don't bear that out. The fact we were behind at some stage in most games suggests we weren't a great or dominant side, which is also undeniably true. But unlike some other recent seasons were we got flogged in nearly all our losses (2021 comes to mind for this one), 2022 wasn't like that at all. We lost 11 games, 6 of them we were either in front or level in the second half, we were reasonably close at some stage in the second half in two more games (Geelong and Sydney towards the end of the season), leaving the Melbourne, first Sydney and Western Bulldogs games as the only one we weren't really in.

 

[Sully111]

To me it’s more to do with the opposition midfield. There’s no way he can match it with Oliver, Petracca and Viney because they’re just too big and powerful for him. Luckily for him there’s probably only one midfield like that so he should be fine against all the others.

Yeah fair point.

I do think the likes of Lenny seeing him go round and then working to help him improve will be part of it though.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

- Jack Bytel

vfl.aflmstats.com

Match Report: VFL Round 22 v Williamstown

www.sandringhamfc.com.au

When Steele was injured , i think in late May, Bytel was pretty crappy.
He was improving but went down with a foot injury round 9.

 

[plugger66]

I was replying to a post suggesting most games we lost weren't winnable, and the facts don't bear that out. The fact we were behind at some stage in most games suggests we weren't a great or dominant side, which is also undeniably true. But unlike some other recent seasons were we got flogged in nearly all our losses (2021 comes to mind for this one), 2022 wasn't like that at all. We lost 11 games, 6 of them we were either in front or level in the second half, we were reasonably close at some stage in the second half in two more games (Geelong and Sydney towards the end of the season), leaving the Melbourne, first Sydney and Western Bulldogs games as the only one we weren't really in.

Fair enough

 

[bird_man]

His last three games were 28, 29, 28 disposals, 10 and 13 tackles in the last 2.

Yes, his last game was actually very good from memory. Had a few of us frustrated he couldn't put 4 qtrs together earlier at the time.

Outside of that there was nothing to get excited about.

 

[SteeleSaints]

I was replying to a post suggesting most games we lost weren't winnable, and the facts don't bear that out. The fact we were behind at some stage in most games suggests we weren't a great or dominant side, which is also undeniably true. But unlike some other recent seasons were we got flogged in nearly all our losses (2021 comes to mind for this one), 2022 wasn't like that at all. We lost 11 games, 6 of them we were either in front or level in the second half, we were reasonably close at some stage in the second half in two more games (Geelong and Sydney towards the end of the season), leaving the Melbourne, first Sydney and Western Bulldogs games as the only one we weren't really in.

Exactly it was like our talent and effort kept us in games, some games were lost just through poor kicking on goal. Although we could never shake teams like those with elite systems/skills and break down the opposition. Chris Scott suggests he expects 100% effort as a given, thats rubbish there were games where they won on their system and the individual brillance of a few.

 

[The Punter]

Exactly it was like our talent and effort kept us in games, some games were lost just through poor kicking on goal. Although we could never shake teams like those with elite systems/skills and break down the opposition. Chris Scott suggests he expects 100% effort as a given, thats rubbish there were games where they won on their system and the individual brillance of a few.

Funnily enough, on the numbers, one of the three games we lost in part due to poor kicking for goal was one of the games we weren't really in (Doggies). No one watching that game thinks we lost due to anything other than all-round performance.

Another one of the games was lost due to essentially the poor goal kicking of one man, who I can attest was deliberately battered from pillar to post by his opponent (Brisbane and Harris Andrews). King's response the following week versus Sydney was all class.

The Port Adelaide game was the other one.

 

[plugger66]

Funnily enough, on the numbers, one of the three games we lost in part due to poor kicking for goal was one of the games we weren't really in (Doggies). No one watching that game thinks we lost due to anything other than all-round performance.

Another one of the games was lost due to essentially the poor goal kicking of one man, who I can attest was deliberately battered from pillar to post by his opponent (Brisbane and Harris Andrews). King's response the following week versus Sydney was all class.

The Port Adelaide game was the other one.

But don’t you also win because the opposition does what you say we did. I believe it’s swings and roundabouts. In the end over 22 games the best team normally wins tge most games and the worst tge least. Nathan Buckley on sen says tge coaching is overrated either because the side is poor or good. That doesn’t mean there isn’t good or ordinary coaches but I don’t clarkson will have a winning season at north this year and I probably doubt we will as well

 

[True Blue Saint]

I will let you have the last say. Firstly overblown doesn’t mean I think Sharman didn’t do an ok job. I still say the way it was written on here at the time was overblown. Also I, others can do it differently, don’t rate a game on a persons age or the amount of games played. If I rated windhanger tagging for that game it was because of how he played not his age or games played. Can’t really remember how I rated it though. I think I rated it highly. And lastly even if sharmans game was not overblown surely we are now discussing him as a forward as I doubt Sharman will go back under Lyon. At the moment as a forward Sharman is rated very lowly by Lyon. That game against Stewart is having no bearing on being selected or not as it’s irrelevant.

Ignore that last bit. Obviously he played forward so it is relevant. I’m getting Alzheimer’s


I’m getting Alzheimer’s


I’m getting Alzheimer’s

 

[True Believer]

I must miss this clean stuff. I agree he is a one grabber but his kicking and handball looks as average as most mids. The one thing he does have that we don’t need is mid who can only play as a mid who like most of our regular mids has average pace. My mum is faster than Clark but he has skills none of our regular mids have.

To be fair, your mum has leaned off a fair bit lately.....

 

[plugger66]

To be fair, your mum has leaned off a fair bit lately.....

The way she is going her weight will be in the negative soon. She would even faster if she got help quicker for her broken hip.

 

[Premium]

To me it’s more to do with the opposition midfield. There’s no way he can match it with Oliver, Petracca and Viney because they’re just too big and powerful for him. Luckily for him there’s probably only one midfield like that so he should be fine against all the others.

Coaches maybe , but why didnt they have him firing against the Dees , anyway he has to start producing the goods or his career will be over before he knows it.
Our injuries have given a few players a chance to show there talent and when guys like King , Billings , Jones , Hayes , McKenzie , Coffield get back a few players are going to be at Sandringham.
I guy like Owens could easily be a full time midfielder by the end of the year - he has the dynamic to be anything - Windhager has shown more than enough to be a midfielder and he is only a 2nd year player , so Clark who is in his 5th season has yet to really strike a blow in the midfield yet and hopefully this is his year.

Our midfield has been our weakest point for many years , hopefully with a fully fit Marshall our midfield will ignite , knowing Steele and Crouch produce nearly every week and having Gresham , Sinclair , Clark , Windhager , Owens , Ross , Jones , Bytel , Byrne rotating through there we should be in better shape.

 

[Premium]

The way she is going her weight will be in the negative soon. She would even faster if she got help quicker for her broken hip.

I really feel with Owens and Windhager showing the determination in training and play they are going to be our regular midfielders before long , If Hunter Clark only showed more a bit more of what they have he might be the player we wanted when we drafted him.
I just feel we have had the training wheels on him for too long and hopefully Ross gets him playing good football.

 

[plugger66]

I really feel with Owens and Windhager showing the determination in training and play they are going to be our regular midfielders before long , If Hunter Clark only showed more a bit more of what they have he might be the player we wanted when we drafted him.
I just feel we have had the training wheels on him for too long and hopefully Ross gets him playing good football.

Injuries haven’t helped especially as he seems to struggle to get a shaped body. I’m still hopeful. He has something I see but whether it comes out who knows.

 

[Premium]

Just saw the Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

30

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

interview , very well spoken guy.
Hope he has a great season , when we got him as a de-listed player I thought he would be lucky to get a game , however he has looked better the more games we pump into him and if he keeps improving we might just have a Bilcavs type utility in our squad which will be a huge asset to have.

 

[puppy_dog7]

I must miss this clean stuff. I agree he is a one grabber but his kicking and handball looks as average as most mids. The one thing he does have that we don’t need is mid who can only play as a mid who like most of our regular mids has average pace. My mum is faster than Clark but he has skills none of our regular mids have.

Agree, he does stuff in tight spaces that looks elite (Pendlebury like) but his kicking still needs work went at 30% efficiency on Friday, which was 2nd worst behind Caminiti.

 

[bird_man]

Agree, he does stuff in tight spaces that looks elite (Pendlebury like) but his kicking still needs work went at 30% efficiency on Friday, which was 2nd worst behind Caminiti.

He had the same issue at under age footy when he made the move to the midfield.

Was rated as one of the best kicks in the draft but once he played midfield he was going at about 50%

A lot of this would come down the the amount of contested footy he wins in the middle (went at 50 contested in under 18’s) but it’s still an area he needs to improve on

 

[saintmike65]

It's not like we need Bytel to succeed to be successful as a club. I have liked what I have seen from him but he hasn't set the world on fire or proven he has any top notch abilities.

We also have, at the club, the following players who can play as inside midfielders: Steele, Ross, Crouch, Gresham, Owens, Windhager, Clark, Jones. So I want him to succeed, and I get the desire to see him be better than who we have (which includes two two-time B&F winners in the first three names above), but it's not the end of the world for us as a club if he doesn't make it, and as stated, at 23 years old, he really has to earn it.

Fair to say that for their future longevity, Jones and Clark need to be more outside mids!

 

[The Punter]

Fair to say that for their future longevity, Jones and Clark need to be more outside mids!

Not a lot of impact injuries on Jones' CV. Clark is a tougher one because his elite skill set is most valuable inside. So I think moving him outside robs him of his best chance to contribute and be productive.

 

[saintmike65]

Not a lot of impact injuries on Jones' CV. Clark is a tougher one because his elite skill set is most valuable inside. So I think moving him outside robs him of his best chance to contribute and be productive.

Maybe but they’re both lightly built!!

 

[hayes]

It’s only a small thing but I saw Steele sprinting to chase his opponent more times in the last practice game then he did all of last season. Couldn’t believe it when I first saw it. He wasn’t alone in that of course but he was the king of jogging while the other team was sprinting forward, I think we’re starting to see Ross’ impact already.