Autopsy Practice Match, 2023: St.Kilda v Essendon

[Winmar2Lockett]

No doubt he a had actual reasons but I think it is now at the point that it just becomes excuses.

As I said, 23 years old now and only really missed the one pre season.

Yes he has a concussion half way through last year but also quite average up until that point. A mid of that age should be dominating VFL footy.

Windhager and Owens both out performed him at that level in their first year. Both of those two just came off a year and a half of no footy.

VFL reports suggested Bytel was very good before the concussion.

The senior team was flying with no injury issues.

Missing only one preseason is great. Getting hurt during the season when a spot opens up or having a season written off (in VFL terms) renders the preseason pointless.

2019- back
2020- covid
2021- covid
2022- concussion

Windy & Mitch had some school footy in 2021. Same amount of VFL that Bytel had.

He hasn’t had a decent run at it whatever way you slice & dice it.


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[Jade Buddha]

I wasn't willing to say Clark was poor after the first praccy game (underwhelming was my preferred descriptor) and I'm not prepared to say he was excellent after this one. But I definitely feel more reassured about his tracking this week.

He still gets does a dinky kick out of a tackle situation fairly often, when his attempt to break the tackle fails. They pretty much all worked out this game, but really could be anything.

With Bytel I can understand why on paper he isn't the best fit with Crouch and Steele, but I thought we definitely looked better when he was in on the weekend.

Dinky little kicks can be effective in certain circumstances. I’d rather that disposal and it going to a team mate than slamming it on the boot indiscriminately. Clark is adept at executing them and has a high rate of success.

 

[saintmike65]

Mason Wood could easily have a huge year knowing he has gained confidence from last year playing more games than he had in 9 seasons and most probably his best season.
Being such a elite runner , tall , can mark and kick - he has everything to be a outstanding player and after getting a good go last year he could easily have a even better year as he gets the belief.

What I like is he is treating every game like it’s his last..great attitude and seems to be getting better with age.

 

[Sully111]

I think the improvement in Clark from the Melbourne game to the Essendon one would be in no small part due to our coaches.

 

[hayes]

I think the improvement in Clark from the Melbourne game to the Essendon one would be in no small part due to our coaches.

To me it’s more to do with the opposition midfield. There’s no way he can match it with Oliver, Petracca and Viney because they’re just too big and powerful for him. Luckily for him there’s probably only one midfield like that so he should be fine against all the others.

 

[MordySaint]

I think the improvement in Clark from the Melbourne game to the Essendon one would be in no small part due to our coaches.

If you read the Age article by:

Operating table to trade table to fresh start: The Saint due for a change of fortune
By Michael Gleeson
March 5, 2023

"Hunter says it feels like he got a clean start without leaving the club. He loves playing under RTB, Harvey, BJ and Lenny... plus Corey of course. He says he has loved the new change at the club."

Looks like the new coaching staff is already paying dividends... as the majority of posters on here thought it would.

 

[bird_man]

VFL reports suggested Bytel was very good before the concussion.

The senior team was flying with no injury issues.

Missing only one preseason is great. Getting hurt during the season when a spot opens up or having a season written off (in VFL terms) renders the preseason pointless.

2019- back
2020- covid
2021- covid
2022- concussion

Windy & Mitch had some school footy in 2021. Same amount of VFL that Bytel had.

He hasn’t had a decent run at it whatever way you slice & dice it.


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Not sure about VFL reports but I'd did watch him and can tell you from my point of view (And many others on here at the time) he was just going ok. Not what you'd expect from a guy expected to make the jump to afl.

You can keep making excuses for him but I doubt the club is at this stage. He was lucky to get a contract last year, had to wait until after trade period IIRC.

At 23 and wirh 4 pre seasons under your belt he's had more than enough time to prove he is AFL standard. He's running out of time now.

 

[The Punter]

It's not like we need Bytel to succeed to be successful as a club. I have liked what I have seen from him but he hasn't set the world on fire or proven he has any top notch abilities.

We also have, at the club, the following players who can play as inside midfielders: Steele, Ross, Crouch, Gresham, Owens, Windhager, Clark, Jones. So I want him to succeed, and I get the desire to see him be better than who we have (which includes two two-time B&F winners in the first three names above), but it's not the end of the world for us as a club if he doesn't make it, and as stated, at 23 years old, he really has to earn it.

 

[hayes]

I’m with the Bird Man on this one. We’ve got to stop coming up with excuses for why guys aren’t getting it done. I had faith in Bytel but there’s too many examples of him not finding enough ball as a midfielder. It really shouldn’t take this long when you’re constantly around the ball.

 

[Saintbloke]

I’m with the Bird Man on this one. We’ve got to stop coming up with excuses for why guys aren’t getting it done. I had faith in Bytel but there’s too many examples of him not finding enough ball as a midfielder. It really shouldn’t take this long when you’re constantly around the ball.

We lost too many winnable games last season thanks to the midfield falling away at crucial times, so there is a problem and Lyon needs to get the mix right.

 

[hayes]

We lost too many winnable games last season thanks to the midfield falling away at crucial times, so there is a problem and Lyon needs to get the mix right.

Most of the games we lost last year weren’t winnable, that was a feature of the Ratten gameplan. Either way though the mix probably shouldn’t include someone that probably won’t find the ball.

 

[Saintbloke]

Most of the games we lost last year weren’t winnable, that was a feature of the Ratten gameplan. Either way though the mix probably shouldn’t include someone that probably won’t find the ball.

There were 3 or 4 games that we were favorite to win, but lost, though I can't remember who the teams were. Just looking forward in hope to our midfielders consistently getting clean clearances to teammates- not something we see much at the Saints.

 

[The Punter]

Most of the games we lost last year weren’t winnable, that was a feature of the Ratten gameplan. Either way though the mix probably shouldn’t include someone that probably won’t find the ball.

Of the 11 games St Kilda lost last year, St Kilda were either in front or level after half-time in six of them. I would posit that all of those games were winnable.

 

[Ads734]

People on this board should get like 0.5 demerit points for Seb Ross slander.

Agreed. Prior to last year he was on my hit list. However his transformation last year, and ability to do it at his age gave me so much admiration. Love him.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Agreed. Prior to last year he was on my hit list. However his transformation last year, and ability to do it at his age gave me so much admiration. Love him.

I see him being the old dude in the premiership team. There’s always one. Just past their prime but giving it everything and doing the hard stuff while the young stars get the limelight

 

[puppy_dog7]

My only issue with Clark is Defensive spread.
If he can be like Dusty circa 2017-20 whereby he was just an attacking mid, and the rest of the midfield and even forward half had that intense defensive pressure and spread then I think it can work.
Or he has less TOG and is utilised more in shorter bursts.

There's no doubt he has talent and a point of difference, but if there's a turnover he's very slow to react and chase. I've seen more than a handful of times where he looks like he's on a treadmill trying to chase after opposition players and looks completely and utterly gassed.

 

[puppy_dog7]

For those knocking Paton, I suggest you go back and watch his game. Worked very hard both in offensive and defensive transition. from 58% game time (second lowest to Windy) he had 13 disp, 5 Tackles and 22 pressure acts (3rd behind Butler and Steele with 27) and if not for Gale force winds could've had a goal to his name as well. Think he played his role perfectly fine in my opinion.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

My only issue with Clark is Defensive spread.
If he can be like Dusty circa 2017-20 whereby he was just an attacking mid, and the rest of the midfield and even forward half had that intense defensive pressure and spread then I think it can work.
Or he has less TOG and is utilised more in shorter bursts.

There's no doubt he has talent and a point of difference, but if there's a turnover he's very slow to react and chase. I've seen more than a handful of times where he looks like he's on a treadmill trying to chase after opposition players and looks completely and utterly gassed.

Clark becoming dusty has never been on my mind. Especially because he’s gone forward about 1 time in his career where he’s been a half back the majority of it

 

[Nutsngum]

I’m with the Bird Man on this one. We’ve got to stop coming up with excuses for why guys aren’t getting it done. I had faith in Bytel but there’s too many examples of him not finding enough ball as a midfielder. It really shouldn’t take this long when you’re constantly around the ball.

Someone literally came up with a tally of the amount of actual games hes played in the last 4 years. If you literally cannot practice your craft how can you be expected to improve. He literally isnt constantly around the ball as his opportunity to do so has been severely limited.

If he doesnt make it then not much we can do, but give him an actual opportunity to succeed first.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Clark becoming dusty has never been on my mind. Especially because he’s gone forward about 1 time in his career where he’s been a half back the majority of it

I didn't mean start being a goal kicking explosive mid-forward who fends off everyone. I just meant that he becomes our "attacking" mid that doesn't necessarily have to focus on going in the defensive half of the ground.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Not sure about VFL reports but I'd did watch him and can tell you from my point of view (And many others on here at the time) he was just going ok. Not what you'd expect from a guy expected to make the jump to afl.

You can keep making excuses for him but I doubt the club is at this stage. He was lucky to get a contract last year, had to wait until after trade period IIRC.

At 23 and wirh 4 pre seasons under your belt he's had more than enough time to prove he is AFL standard. He's running out of time now.

Ok Birdy, You win.

Excuses it is.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Someone literally came up with a tally of the amount of actual games hes played in the last 4 years. If you literally cannot practice your craft how can you be expected to improve. He literally isnt constantly around the ball as his opportunity to do so has been severely limited.

If he doesnt make it then not much we can do, but give him an actual opportunity to succeed first.

We need to stop making excuses for blokes who can't play footy because of a global pandemic or due to brain injuries.

Nothing but laziness IMO.

 

[plugger66]

Not what l was talking about mate.

Well you need to explain because that’s how I read it.

 

[plugger66]

I think the improvement in Clark from the Melbourne game to the Essendon one would be in no small part due to our coaches.

Or more likely the opposition and him getting used to playing more midfield time.

 

[AirWinmar]

It's not like we need Bytel to succeed to be successful as a club. I have liked what I have seen from him but he hasn't set the world on fire or proven he has any top notch abilities.

We also have, at the club, the following players who can play as inside midfielders: Steele, Ross, Crouch, Gresham, Owens, Windhager, Clark, Jones. So I want him to succeed, and I get the desire to see him be better than who we have (which includes two two-time B&F winners in the first three names above), but it's not the end of the world for us as a club if he doesn't make it, and as stated, at 23 years old, he really has to earn it.

We don't, but for me and likely most others we want him to succeed because he has something that pretty much all our mids don't possess and that is he is very clean with his disposal. Clark is as well by foot but Bytel is better by hand and quicker. He just needs to lift his production so I hope he can - looked very fit this summer