Coach Richmond under Adem Yze

[Freomaniac]

No cattle = no coach

Also idk about us slipping so much against the dogs, did we not have proper wet weather boots on or something? Dogs players seemed fine.

Richmond had a solid finals run from 2013-22.

3 Elim finals in 2013. Missed out on finals in 2016. Could of won an Elim final in 2013 vs Carlton or 2015 vs North Melbourne.

Top 4 each season from 2017 until 2020. Flags in 2017, 2019 and 2020. 2018 was a preliminary final loss

Ironic as the one season Richmond finished top was in 2018 when they Bundled out of a preliminary final. The other 3 years, they finished 3rd and won flags.

Missed out on finals in 2021. Made an Elim final in 2022.

Hardwick left at the right time.

I don't think Richmond fans will complain. Finals in 2013-22. Those 2017, 2019 and 2020 flags will be looked back on fondly

 

[schmuttt]

Might actually be a blessing, if they have an absolute horrific year he can incrementally improve each season 2025 onwards.

 

[Truetiger]

Might actually be a blessing, if they have an absolute horrific year he can incrementally improve each season 2025 onwards.

Gets a first hand look at our younger players as well. Come seasons end can make list management decisions.

 

[Grockadoc]

Yze will have at least 2 years to refresh the list. We all knew the cliff was coming, but Yze still has not had a chance to play his best 22 yet. The two games we gor the closest was the Carlton and Sydney games and they are the 2 that we were the most competitive.

Injuries have cruelled his season. Judge him when he hasn't got both hands tied behind his back...

 

[schmuttt]

Gets a first hand look at our younger players as well. Come seasons end can make list management decisions.

Yep. To be honest seems Richmond fans are much more relaxed about this than some peanut neutrals who are questioning it. A horrific injury list for a team that was already tipped to be a bottom 6 lock with a new coach? They've done well to win a game to be honest.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Unfortunately for Yze he might be a classic rebuild coach who won't survive the beatings over the next few years. Hope Richmond stick with him as I actually think he is very good, up against it massively at the moment with a lot of their senior core injured and the remaining have lost their drive.

Important to stock pile talent before Tassie arrive.

 

[Punt Road Feral]

I've seen enough from our side earlier in the year to know Yze can coach.
A narrow loss to Carlton when we basically played with 2 on the bench after HT inc losing x2 key defenders during the game against the league best KPF's.
Down by a goal at 3/4 time against Port and faded.
Gutsy win over Sydney who everyone will look back on at the end of the year and think how did we manage that.
Narrow loss to the Saints when we were clinging on for dear life in the last quarter and just ran out of gas.
Even with the Dees at HT whilst severely undermanned shows he has coaching ability with limited cattle.

Unfortunately you can see now that fatigue is setting in and the injuries are taking it's toll and we no longer can compete for 3 quarters against decent sides and now it's a quarter or less.

It really doesn't help all our inside midfielders have missed large chunks of the season: Hopper, Taranto, Prestia & Ross have literally played a handful of games. Which means we are now depending on players like Dow & Baker to try and win the hard ball and feed the likes of Bolton and Martin and that's why they are barely influencing games now.

It's certainly been the year from hell where it's been dissapointing that our young kids have suffered long term injuries and that's what will hurt us in the long term. Gibcus, Ross, Judson Clarke and now MRJ all will be out for 8+ weeks including season ending injuries.

Unfortunately for the rest of the year we will be like West Coast of 2023.

I'll make a separate post about our trade strategy re: Hopper & Taranto shortly.

 

[juss]

I thought people would unfairly come too hard at Yze but outside of a couple of Cats fans trying to sink the boots in (expected), most people are taking a pretty rational view.

This year has been and will be a disaster in the short term, but not a lot he can do about it so soon.

Does need time to shape the list the way he wants to, and to actually get some continuity in the side to teach them to play the way he wants to.

The likely big draft hand this year and probably next year will go a long way to the injection of young talent.

Just needs to keep developing the younger players on the list.

Astute trading and FA acquisitions when the time is right can accelerate a team but the key is to keep developing the young players and draft well for the next core.

 

[janty]

Are they in no man’s land?

 

[marcus1232]

He is going to pay the price for inheriting a list that sold its soul to win premierships.
FWIW I would sell my soul in a heartbeat to have had the run Richmond had.

They mortgaged there future bringing in Hopper and Taranto trying to snag another one and that's ok too.

I don't think he will be Richmonds next premiership coach but his legacy can be being the bridge coach.

 

[Punt Road Feral]

Circling back to Taranto & Hopper.

We had an inconsistent H&A season in 2022 (13W 8L & 1D) but basically finished comfortably in 7th with 6 pts separating above & below us.
From memory when we had some injuries in the middle of the year we lost some crucial games narrowly and it bit us in the ass with our ladder position at the end of the year.
Between rounds 11-19 we lost to Sydney by a goal, Geelong by 3pts, Gold Coast by 2pts & North by 4pts & a draw to Freo.
We won the last 4 games of the H&A and then lost to Brisbane by 2 points in the EF who went on to a prelim.
When Prestia was out we'd notoriously lose in the middle and needed some inside mids to have a tilt at it.

If we didn't have the calibre of Prestia, Martin, Riewoldt, Lynch, Cotchin, Edwards, Lambert, Grimes all with between 1-4 years left of footy in them I highly doubt we would've gone for both of them.
The club rolled the dice getting both of them to relieve the pressure on our aging stars and hoped we could've jagged another top 4 finish or even a flag like Geelong did but it clearly didn't happen.
Tbh I'm ok with the club doing it considering it would've been odd accepting a rebuild with our stars still having something to give and the next crop of youth nowhere near AFL standard.
If we didn't get Taranto & Hopper it would've been likely we finished around 15th last year and slotted between GC & Hawthorn on 7-9 wins but at the same token we wouldn't have pumped barely anymore games into our kids that were worthy of games and it just would've been a weird way to see the above 8 bow out.

It's the draft years 2018-2020 which have been busts which are hurting us now. Jack Ross

5

Jack Ross

Age

23

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

2.7

4star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.7

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.0

4star

D

17.8

5star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

has been our only decent draftee of 2018 with 68 games.
Dow was pick 21 of 2019 and appears to be a bust, I can't see him on our list from 2026 onwards and he may just be held on for depth following our retirees.
Ralphsmith may become decent as a wingman replacing Mcintosh & Pickett but has only played 36 games.

In hindsight we actually look like we've drafted ok at the end of 2021.
Gibcus was looking like a fantastic KPD prospect after year 1 and looked far more composed than others like Rance & Grimes who took about 4 years before they started looking like AFL players. Unfortunately the poor kid has had rotten luck with injury since which is a real shame.
We then drafted Brown (17), Sonsie (28), Banks (29) & Clarke (30) which all look ok. We were very lucky in our best years introducing players like Baker, Bolton & Short in a phased manner when we had our side peaking as they adapted to AFL footy but the above are being thrown in the deep end and are handling it ok considering the s**t storm we are in. It's a shame we've lost Clarke to an ACL this year.

Having so many injuries has meant we'll likely get a top 2-3 pick in the 2024 draft and have a decent hand of second & third rounders that will help with our rebuild.

 

[Daka]

Let's face it, Richmond's reckless list strategy has backfired big tme. Add to that the enormous injury list they are dealing with, and we are just not gonna see much from them this year. Yze is on a hiding to nothing at the moment.

What was reckless exactly about our list strategy we have gone to the draft pretty much every year. hard to get picks when you finish at the top than middle of the road. this is the first time in a long time we will be up the top end of the draft for early picks/talent.

minus getting Taranto & Hopper which you saw last night how much our midfield was destroyed without them.
We needed some strong senior bodies in there with the retirements of Cotch, Edwards & Lambert.

Those picks turned into Elijah Hewett (2022 pick 14), Max Gruzewski (2022 pick 22), Toby Mcmullin (2022 pick 34), Daniel Curtin (2023 pick 8). not exactly superstars Curtin may be okay, but we would not have picked anyway.

It's lazy for people keep blaming what Richmond gave up, then looking at the bigger picture we weren't even at the top of those drafts with the picks we gave up, this year we have a chance to get one of the best kids in the draft.


I think some of our kids are playing better than senior players, it's not a surprise to see us struggling, Grimes, Broad, Short, McIntosh & Pickett have all been horrible.

We only have a few senior players that are actually playing to a decent standard Daniel Rioli, Bolton & Vlastuin are only I would give a pass mark too.

Then you put in the injuries we have had hard to win games let alone be competitive.
We have issues but I don't think their issues that weren't unforeseen to most supporters knew we were on the way down.

 

[GastevsBeard]

Are they in no man’s land?

not at all

no man's land is the list re-build purgatory of around 6th-12th on the ladder

we are a monty for 17th-18th which will mean pick 1 or 2. Exactly what is required for a new coach to rebuild the list

we will have to wait & see on the execution

 

[Bagger72]

Probably saying the obvious - but keep Balta, Rioli, Bolton, Nankervis, Vlastuin, Taranto

Put everyone else up for sale and yes this includes Hopper, Short, Graham and Lynch... not all in one year but this is a decent draft for mids and likely need to stack up on 3-4 top 20 picks in this draft

Richmond needs to start baking the cake and at this moment it has done a woeful job regenerating the list.

 

[Freomaniac]

Unfortunately for Yze he might be a classic rebuild coach who won't survive the beatings over the next few years. Hope Richmond stick with him as I actually think he is very good, up against it massively at the moment with a lot of their senior core injured and the remaining have lost their drive.

Important to stock pile talent before Tassie arrive.

it could be good timing when you think about it.

Richmond drafted well from 2007-09 and got some good kids in the draft. The crows drafted well in 2007-9 too. Both clubs made the 2017 grand final.

Richmond drafting kids in the 2024-26 drafts could be good timing before tassie comes in.

 

[Daka]

it could be good timing when you think about it.

Richmond drafted well from 2007-09 and got some good kids in the draft. The crows drafted well in 2007-9 too. Both clubs made the 2017 grand final.

Richmond drafting kids in the 2024-26 drafts could be good timing before tassie comes in.

A lot more people don't understand how far list managers are looking into the future, I think it was always our plan to have several picks in this draft.

The last couple of drafts have had high top end talent but poor depth, where we were picking from would have been more lottery. This is the best midfield draft in terms of depth in 2-3 years.

It will be up to Chris Toce to pick the best players available with our recruiting team.

 

[Freomaniac]

A lot more people don't understand how far list managers are looking into the future, I think it was always our plan to have several picks in this draft.

The last couple of drafts have had high top end talent but poor depth, where we were picking from would have been more lottery. This is the best midfield draft in terms of depth in 2-3 years.

It will be up to Chris Toce to pick the best players available with our recruiting team.

of course they are....

Especially with Key Position players. If a certain team needs a Key forward, they will take the best available with their 1st pick and slowly develop them or use a late pick or rookie pick to hope they are good 3-5 years down the track.

 

[Tonythetiger]

Yze is safe for this year, but if they are in this same predicament at the same time in 2025, then there will be more than a rumbling at Punt Road.

Wouldn't have thought so. Reckon we are in for a few lean years. Maybe end of 3rd year if this is happening and with no injuries sure. We have all these senior figures departing and I just think the injuries this year have shown our list is in pretty rough shape. Going to take time to see real improvement.

 

[BomberManU]

Yze is unfairly (for him) paying the price for x3 Premierships and a long injury list. Don't think Tiger supporters would mind giving him time to show his wares, given the success they had.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Yze's done a couple of things that suggest he's got something about him. Plucking Lefau from obscurity and developing him into a competent forward is a great effort.

But rebuild coaches don't last because expectations are always unrealistic. That's what we're seeing now with Richmond fans thinking they'll be back competing within a few years. But fast forward 3 years and the list looks horrendous. Are guys like Dow, Mansell and Ralphsmith really going to become quality long-term players to make up for the likes of Vlastuin, Nankervis, Martin, Baker, etc likely being gone?

I reckon Yze could do everything right from here but there's no way an outsider coming in to a club coming off a dynasty will keep his job after 3 seasons of pain. My bet is he's under real pressure by mid 2025 and out the door sometime in 2026.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Boy oh boy wowee, this certainly in a thread. With where they are heading, if you cant accurately judge him within 5 years then he is probably an absolute coaching genius. The whole list is about to be turned over, I hope they were all on the same page when he started

 

[Millsie69]

They need more camels around the entire boundary.

 

[Erakor]

Are they in no man’s land?

No, we are bottom 2. We are in rebuild mode.

No man’s land is Saints or bulldogs, team with a list for now but not in the 8.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Probably saying the obvious - but keep Balta, Rioli, Bolton, Nankervis, Vlastuin, Taranto

Put everyone else up for sale and yes this includes Hopper, Short, Graham and Lynch... not all in one year but this is a decent draft for mids and likely need to stack up on 3-4 top 20 picks in this draft

Richmond needs to start baking the cake and at this moment it has done a woeful job regenerating the list.

They'd be selling Lynch at an absolute low point given his injuries the past few seasons - I don't see any benefit for them doing that.

Hopper they'd arguably need to let go for almost nothing if they wanted to get his contract off the books.

Neither of these trades are going to net them serious rebuilding draft currency.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Circling back to Taranto & Hopper.

If we didn't have the calibre of Prestia, Martin, Riewoldt, Lynch, Cotchin, Edwards, Lambert, Grimes all with between 1-4 years left of footy in them I highly doubt we would've gone for both of them.

Edwards and Lambert had retired already. Reiwoldt and Cotchin had 1 poor year left in them. We're not even 1.5 years into the 7 year deals and every one of those players are retired or cooked with the exception of Lynch who can't get on the park.

I agree that's why you got them but it's one of the biggest list miscalculations you'll ever see.

In hindsight we actually look like we've drafted ok at the end of 2021.
Gibcus was looking like a fantastic KPD prospect after year 1 and looked far more composed than others like Rance & Grimes who took about 4 years before they started looking like AFL players. Unfortunately the poor kid has had rotten luck with injury since which is a real shame.
We then drafted Brown (17), Sonsie (28), Banks (29) & Clarke (30) which all look ok.

This is incredibly generous.

Gibcus is very unlucky. But the other 4 have all played VFL this year despite playing in a poor team.

Compare that to JVR who is playing as the number 1 key forward at a flag fancy. Roberts, Howes, McVee and Dempsey are locked in best 22 at good teams. Soligo looks a star. Curtis looks a good player even in a terrible team.

They've all still got time but you would've wanted 1 or 2 of them to show massive signs at AFL level by now and none have.