Preview Round 12, 2020: St.Kilda v Essendon - Gabba, Sunday 16th August, 3:35PM AEST *JONES 100TH*

[Diehard Saint]

IMO Battle should be playing Goddard's role. Swing between defense and attack with time in the middle. We would be too tall with him as a permanent backman IMO.

Yes agree.
I just meant for this week if Carlisle, Coff or Paton have a break.
Definitely like him in the swingman role.

 

[prophetic1]

Shows that you favour competition over reputation.

Maybe? More importantly if anyone is capable of objectively assessing themselves i think Geary is one of the few that would be first to put his hand up and say I'm not pulling my weight.Or someone else should be getting the run not me regardless of his role as Captain. I believe in his integrity...i think that's why hes captain. I wasn't a believer at all but i do believe we under performed dramatically as a team...perhaps for a variety of reasons...he has the players respect and even love. If anyone can assist in galvanising our response next week its Geary as Captain.

 

[gringo2011]

Agree he can't play forward. Much more to selection than performance but I know you are one of the few that understand that already. We need leadership out there. No surprise Ratten is coaching from the bench and Roughead before that. Now imagine dropping the skipper. Hilarious.

Watching Geary hobbling after Geelong defenders streaming away from him obviously is doing more than I realised for the players around him. If Membrey and him got a touch it might make a few kids pick up. The they don't get near it it sets an example for kids to follow to though.

Hill, Geary, Membrey had 23 possessions between them, zero score despite 2 being forwards. That's some leadership. Steele was more of a leader getting his 25 possessions and his one point was more than their combined scores. Ed Phillips had 7 less possessions that the three leaders combined and kicked 2 of our 4 goals.

I have always loved Geary but I felt embarrassed for him to be honest. He looked slow and beaten. It's not his fault, time catches up with every player. I'd have him managed for a few games, he's past it.

His season so far has netted 15, 3, 6,11,9,7,6 disposals. I get he's tagged players where they would have destroyed us if not for his effort but really only the Carlton game was a success. He really killed Docherty's game and he was good against the Dogs limiting JJ, but the rest of them he's been carried.

 

[George]

Yes agree.
I just meant for this week if Carlisle, Coff or Paton have a break.
Definitely like him in the swingman role.

Oh well yeah I agree then. Simply put I think Howard Carlisle Battle and to an extent Wilkie would be too tall. Coffs medium size too.

 

[gringo2011]

Maybe? More importantly if anyone is capable of objectively assessing themselves i think Geary is one of the few that would be first to put his hand up and say I'm not pulling my weight.Or someone else should be getting the run not me regardless of his role as Captain. I believe in his integrity...i think that's why hes captain. I wasn't a believer at all but i do believe we under performed dramatically as a team...perhaps for a variety of reasons...he has the players respect and even love. If anyone can assist in galvanising our response next week its Geary as Captain.

I hope so.

 

[Sab22]

Every loss this forum goes into s**t. I understand what occurred last night is frustrating and, I'm with you on that. The whole team played like former shadows of their own excluding some good performances.

We're a very young team, we'll learn from this. I back the boys to bounce back next week.

 

[George]

Watching Geary hobbling after Geelong defenders streaming away from him obviously is doing more than I realised for the players around him. If Membrey and him got a touch it might make a few kids pick up. The they don't get near it it sets an example for kids to follow to though.

Hill, Geary, Membrey had 23 possessions between them, zero score despite 2 being forwards. That's some leadership. Steele was more of a leader getting his 25 possessions and his one point was more than their combined scores. Ed Phillips had 7 less possessions that the three leaders combined and kicked 2 of our 4 goals.

I have always loved Geary but I felt embarrassed for him to be honest. He looked slow and beaten. It's not his fault, time catches up with every player. I'd have him managed for a few games, he's past it.

His season so far has netted 15, 3, 6,11,9,7,6 disposals. I get he's tagged players where they would have destroyed us if not for his effort but really only the Carlton game was a success. He really killed Docherty's game and he was good against the Dogs limiting JJ, but the rest of them he's been carried.

When did I disagree that he had a bad night?

Why are we using possessions to determine a lockdown players impact on a contest?

We are 7-4 I would suggest our leadership has been fantastic this year.

 

[Impatient Saint]

Who plays Hill's role better than Hill that is sitting in the two's? Luke Dunstan? Matty Parker? See where I'm going with this. Hill is a frustrating player but he isn't being selected because he is on good money that is rubbish. He is on good money because he is a good player. Unfortunately has been inconsistent this year. Has the runs on the board though so will back him in.

The last bit about Geary is just your opinion of course, not sure what you back it up by because if you were right he wouldn't be playing, but not only is he playing but the other 44 blokes on the list think he is the best leader on our list and he is a deserving captain. I will back them. I mean we are 7-4 and less than 24 hours ago we were a game off top spot. Not sure where you get your views from.

Hasn't been performing based on what? You must know his role. I agree he had a poor game. Other than that he has been good this year. But like you I don't know his exact role. The fact he is playing is a pretty good indication that he is performing the role asked of him I'd say.

And if we want to move the conversation to Ratten playing his favourites as the only reason Gears plays - why would a coach who has his side staring at their first finals appearance in 10 years think of playing favourites if it were detrimental to the teams success?

You are on a roll George, its a bit like the old days when you defended Richardson to the hilt, and dont suggest you didnt. How did that work out for you - the Geary discussion will end the same. The club made an error allowing a player who is not best 22 to be appointed Captain and they will be hamstrung until the realise the error.

 

[gringo2011]

They just said Carlisle and someone else were sick in the bus on the way to the ground. Hopefully he hasn't given us all the trots.

 

[BrutThough]

They just said Carlisle and someone else were sick in the bus on the way to the ground. Hopefully he hasn't given us all the trots.

Just our luck.

What did they say that on?

 

[gringo2011]

When did I disagree that he had a bad night?

Why are we using possessions to determine a lockdown players impact on a contest?

We are 7-4 I would suggest our leadership has been fantastic this year.

Because I don't think he's been any good at locking down apart from the 2 games I mentioned. He tagged Lloyd and he got 25 disposal, around average for him and I can't remember him impacting any other games.

 

[gringo2011]

Just our luck.

What did they say that on?

7 News, Tim Watson's sport bit. I just caught the end and missed who else it was.

 

[George]

You are on a role George, its a bit like the old days when you defended Richardson to the hilt, and dont suggest you didnt. How did that work out for you - the Geary discussion will end the same.

Well I criticised Richardson when it was warranted and praised him when it was warranted and many know that despite what you think you know.

You are very hung up on Richardson, it's been a year. Poor bloke must've done a real number on you lol.

Of course the Geary discussion will end the same. That's how time works. You will criticise a player for his entire career, ignore the years and years that you were wrong, and then when it's time for him to retire you'll just say I told you so and act like you were on the money the whole time. It's an easy game to play. Makes you look a genius if nobody remembers the half decade before that where you were wrong every week.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Every loss this forum goes into sh*t. I understand what occurred last night is frustrating and, I'm with you on that. The whole team played like former shadows of their own excluding some good performances.

We're a very young team, we'll learn from this. I back the boys to bounce back next week.

Actually, I think most of us have been pretty philosophical about this loss - as hard as it was to take.

I’m not sure I’ll be saying the same this week about probably the worst Thursday night selection melt of the season....

 

[George]

Because I don't think he's been any good at locking down apart from the 2 games I mentioned. He tagged Lloyd and he got 25 disposal, around average for him and I can't remember him impacting any other games.

Fair enough I think he had a bad game last night but disagree on your assessment of him as a whole.

 

[Diehard Saint]

They just said Carlisle and someone else were sick in the bus on the way to the ground. Hopefully he hasn't given us all the trots.

Honestly, not just hindsight, I thought Carlisle looked lacklustre the whole night - he’s had a bloody good season so far.

 

[Grav]

Would love to see this guy having a run through the guts, probably should have been against Geelong with Jones out. Would add another dimension to the centre bounce.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

I was very surprised that King lined up against the Cats as he looked cooked after that GC game.

It his first full season and think its time to give him a rest

I would bring in Marsh and get him to blanket/negate Hurley with Marshall & Battle working to be our main targets up forward

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Having high GPS numbers meaning nothing if you aren't getting anywhere near the ball. Ben Brown runs the most km in the AFL every week yet has been in horrific form and very ineffectual for his team.

I also don't put much weight into what Jono Brown says. I know I would have watched St Kilda more than him this year. I'm not doubting there were a few times last night where Hill was in a good position and we kicked to an inferior option. But blaming that for his underwhelming 11 games of form or for him consistently have zero touches in last quarters is ridiculous. At some stage it needs to be recognised that he isnt doing enough to impact games when it counts.

This is just going around in circles so this is my last response on the topic. But your first sentence in bold is the problem.

Hill shouldn't be anywhere near the ball. His job is to wreck structures and create space. He needs outwork his opponent and be alone in space so he can deliver I50. To do that, he should be running away from the ball.

As he does that better than pretty much anyone else in any game (see GPS numbers) that is a weapon. Our job is to get the ball to him as he does it. He shouldn't be getting it himself. He shouldn't be anywhere near the ball in a contested situation. That would break structures. We have to be good enough to get the ball out to him.

According to your own posts, that is particularly an issue in the second half. His GPS numbers say he is still running, so the issue therefore becomes delivery to him in the second half.

Yelling at Hill to impact the game is like yelling at clouds. According to the coaches he is positioned where he should be. Even the commentators can see that. But he cant impact the game until we get him the ball.

The thing I just don't understand about your position is your level of certainty based on 0 available evidence. You cant see any of this on tv. In the absence of going to games (and seeing this live), we have what the coaches say, what they commentators say, and what the GPS number say. They all say Hill is doing the right thing and not being rewarded. I am going with that

If you or others choose not to believe what the data and coaches say (and just respond with "GPS tells you nothing" or "I dont put any stock in what Jono Brown says" or "I am disappointed in what Ratts said"), then nothing I say will change your mind. It is like talking to someone that yells "fake news" back at you after each piece of evidence is presented. So probably best to leave it there

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Would love to see this guy having a run through the guts, probably should have been against Geelong with Jones out. Would add another dimension to the centre bounce.

View attachment 932979

Long struggles to get enough of the ball in any position.
It would be exacerbated in the midfield.
and...
The club would know from training if he had an uncanny ability to extract the ball, so you're talking about a mid who plays on the wing and gets less of the ball than Hill or Hind.

 

[gringo2011]

Long struggles to get enough of the ball in any position.
It would be exacerbated in the midfield.
and...
The club would know from training if he had an uncanny ability to extract the ball, so you're talking about a mid who plays on the wing and gets less of the ball than Hill or Hind.

It looked like he might have a had a couple of centre bounces in the midfield and he looked okay. Maybe just 20 minutes a game on ball or something where he can use his focussed energy in bursts before going back to the boring defending stuff.

 

[George]

It looked like he might have a had a couple of centre bounces in the midfield and he looked okay. Maybe just 20 minutes a game on ball or something where he can use his focussed energy in bursts before going back to the boring defending stuff.

He had a good clearance that resulted in a Battle goal. I don't mind him in there. Tough as nails.

 

[Impatient Saint]

Well I criticised Richardson when it was warranted and praised him when it was warranted and many know that despite what you think you know.

You are very hung up on Richardson, it's been a year. Poor bloke must've done a real number on you lol.

Of course the Geary discussion will end the same. That's how time works. You will criticise a player for his entire career, ignore the years and years that you were wrong, and then when it's time for him to retire you'll just say I told you so and act like you were on the money the whole time. It's an easy game to play. Makes you look a genius if nobody remembers the half decade before that where you were wrong every week.

You only criticised Richardson when he was done and buried, prior to that you were his greatest advocate on the forum. Geary the other day during an interview hinted at wanting to play on, if the club are smart they will move him on at season end. He is a battler from the era when we were consistently a bottom 4 side and the list has gone well past his use by date. But I guess you will be happy to have him go on?

 

[gringo2011]

This is just going around in circles so this is my last response on the topic. But your first sentence in bold is the problem.

Hill shouldn't be anywhere near the ball. His job is to wreck structures and create space. He needs outwork his opponent and be alone in space so he can deliver I50. To do that, he should be running away from the ball.

As he does that better than pretty much anyone else in any game (see GPS numbers) that is a weapon. Our job is to get the ball to him as he does it. He shouldn't be getting it himself. He shouldn't be anywhere near the ball in a contested situation. That would break structures. We have to be good enough to get the ball out to him.

According to your own posts, that is particularly an issue in the second half. His GPS numbers say he is still running, so the issue therefore becomes delivery to him in the second half.

Yelling at Hill to impact the game is like yelling at clouds. According to the coaches he is positioned where he should be. Even the commentators can see that. But he cant impact the game until we get him the ball.

The thing I just don't understand about your position is your level of certainty based on 0 available evidence. You cant see any of this on tv. In the absence of going to games (and seeing this live), we have what the coaches say, what they commentators say, and what the GPS number say. They all say Hill is doing the right thing and not being rewarded. I am going with that

If you or others choose not to believe what the data and coaches say (and just respond with "GPS tells you nothing" or "I dont believe Jono Brown" or "I am disappointed in what Ratts said"), then nothing I say (or anyone on the internet says) will change your mind. It is like talking to someone that yells "fake news" back at you after each piece of evidence is presented. So probably best to leave it there

he was ineffective this week but had a pretty good game last week. His movement creates tension for the opposition usually and he can get around players. It would be good to get him to play to a minimum standard and his body language can be a little bit like he doesn't give a s**t. The Freo game was pretty poor, he was more interested in chatting and catching up with mates like a country footballer.

 

[gringo2011]

He had a good clearance that resulted in a Battle goal. I don't mind him in there. Tough as nails.

Bytel set up a couple of goals too, his clean clearances looked like a more alpha male version of Steele. The mids are a work in progress and those two could both add something. Long earned back a lot of my respect in that game, played like he cared when more obvious players dropped their bundle.