Game Day Round 2 vs. St Kilda, MCG, 7:30pm Thurs 21/03

[Cousin of Daicos]

With 3 games with short breaks
Bloody rotate the squad

Not rocket science

Yeah seems crazy not to energise the list with some of the kids who are desperate for an opportunity.

Fin, Reef, Sullivan etc.

How much worse can they be? They'll make mistakes but at least you know they'll run hard. As opposed to most who are in the side now who are also making mistakes, but not even running.

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

St. Kilda made a play for De Goey. De Goey needs to remind them why.

 

[No SPIN]

Stats, and value for money.

Stats?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

With another 6 day break, wouldn't be surprised if we see a senior player (sidey?) rested.

Sidey has always been very durable as an endurance rather than burst runner. Anyway, I doubt he’s going to need to be rested after just a couple of games; not to mention he’ll want to redeem himself for last weeks performance.

 

[Jen2310]

Sidey has always been very durable as an endurance rather than burst runner. Anyway, I doubt he’s going to need to be rested after just a couple of games; not to mention he’ll want to redeem himself for last weeks performance.

I only thought about the multiple 6 day breaks thing. But yeah, if he feels fine, then he'll play.

 

[Jen2310]

Our flaws in the first two games come down to the game plan failing, much more so than any individual performance (I’ll overlook AJ as a contributing but only part factor).
And we did play 2 re hot contenders with a grudge to settle.

I wonder how much of an effect Leppa and Bolton being somewhat elevated out of their 2023 roles to fill Wrights shoes is a factor?
They’d have been up to their neck in handover.

Jen2310 How much have we seen of them at training this year? Are they participating to the same extent?

Nah, they don't participate at all, from what I've seen.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Two goals to halftime and barely sighted after that is hardly good form against a bottom 8 team in Essendon. Meanwhile Schultz has played in a team soundly beaten by arguably the two best teams in the league with terrible supply.

Perhaps TGG we give it longer than two weeks.

I am suggesting we do give it more than two weeks, but I like to record impressions of events as they occur.

You understate Ginnivan's performance - he got 17 possessions and had at least 7 score involvements. I was following the game thread on the Hawthorn BF site and commented. Everyone was happy with his game, and he was not blamed for the team falling in a hole and losing. Rather he was one of two rays of sunshine in a dark result. And his on field enthusiasm and celebration still have that team lifting infectiousness to them.

Schultz has some goals and a few possessions and has not disgraced himself and has his chance to atone. Many here have made excuses for him, citing the difficulty of adjusting to a new game plan, that we could be waiting weeks to truly see his worth? Well, Ginnivan was at his best in the first half of the first game in a new team. He will be tearing the game apart in a few weeks if the 'adjustment' handicap is applied to him.

 

[The Phantom]

Nah, they don't participate at all, from what I've seen.

Might be wise to have them pay a few visits.

 

[sr36]

Yeah seems crazy not to energise the list with some of the kids who are desperate for an opportunity.

Fin, Reef, Sullivan etc.

How much worse can they be? They'll make mistakes but at least you know they'll run hard. As opposed to most who are in the side now who are also making mistakes, but not even running.

We need the pros to tighten up the system before introducing kids into the system. And we need to win some games by putting our best team out there.

We've had a reality check - it might be the best thing for us. Going into future mode when we've still got 21 games left in the season would be ridiculous.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

It’s almost as if some are calling the season at 0-2! The one sure fire way to go 0-3 and be under real pressure heading to the GABBA is picking a bunch of kids when we need steady heads.

I mean there's a balance to be struck no?

Young/untried players provide a spark, an energy, which generally benefits older teams.

Having a kid on each line seems like a decent balance to strike? Reef - Forward, Fin - Middle, Dean - Back

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

We need the pros to tighten up the system before introducing kids into the system. And we need to win some games by putting our best team out there.

We've had a reality check - it might be the best thing for us. Going into future mode when we've still got 21 games left in the season would be ridiculous.

You're acting like I'm saying we should drop half the 30 plus players and blood all the kids.

No, but surely we can play more than just one? Surely? I know it was technically two, but bringing Macrae on late in the third when the game is over doesn't really count.

To me, Dean, Reef and Macrae seems like a pretty decent balance of youth/energy and the reliability of the premiership 23

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

It’s almost as if some are calling the season at 0-2! The one sure fire way to go 0-3 and be under real pressure heading to the GABBA is picking a bunch of kids when we need steady heads.

Agreed. So many on here laying the boots into Dean, AJ & Schultz for our losses, and now they're advocating to bring in more inexperience as a way of fixing it...?

Our senior experienced players need to lift. We're learning a new game plan? Assistant coaches have been moved around?

I'd rather our experienced players get their heads around those changes first before throwing too many more young kids into the mix.

I'm all for bringing in Noble & Frampton. Start Fin, yes. Maybe Reef. But I wouldn't go much further than that this early in the season. They haven't even played any proper VFL matches this year yet.

 

[sr36]

You're acting like I'm saying we should drop half the 30 plus players and blood all the kids.

No, but surely we can play more than just one? Surely? I know it was technically two, but bringing Macrae on late in the third when the game is over doesn't really count.

To me, Dean, Reef and Macrae seems like a pretty decent balance of youth/energy and the reliability of the premiership 23

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see that. Just don't think it will be about playing the kids - more about who they are going to back in to help us win the game. I'm not sure Dean will hold his spot though.

Dean is an interesting one - he has been getting to the right spots and looked composed with ball in hand - but has been really bad in a contest - he's just been trying to lean on players rather than worrying about the ball. Probably just confidence, so it'll depend on whether the coaches think they can get he will compete better with feedback or if it's a proper weakness that will need to be developed over time.

But when you're including Sullivan in your list who is no more of a kid than Noble, AJ, Frampton, you're really just saying drop players and give us something we haven't seen before.

 

[manicpie]

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see that. Just don't think it will be about playing the kids - more about who they are going to back in to help us win the game. I'm not sure Dean will hold his spot though.

Dean is an interesting one - he has been getting to the right spots and looked composed with ball in hand - but has been really bad in a contest - he's just been trying to lean on players rather than worrying about the ball. Probably just confidence, so it'll depend on whether the coaches think they can get he will compete better with feedback or if it's a proper weakness that will need to be developed over time.

I would like to see Dean and Murphy in the same defence. It would allow Dean to be more focused on the ball rather than the player. We really miss Murph

 

[nahnah]

Resting our vets 2 games into the season when we are 0-2 is just absurd

 

[Sweeetleftfoot]

Stats, and value for money.

Stats what stats are you referring to ? Because Schultz has ginnivan covered in almost all metrics of the game.
Let’s revisit this when all teams have played equal games and I’d be shocked if Schultz isn’t streets ahead.

 

[dalkin47]

Yes we are coming off a 6 day break, but has anyone noticed that the opposition has one less day.

 

[Sweeetleftfoot]

I am suggesting we do give it more than two weeks, but I like to record impressions of events as they occur.

You understate Ginnivan's performance - he got 17 possessions and had at least 7 score involvements. I was following the game thread on the Hawthorn BF site and commented. Everyone was happy with his game, and he was not blamed for the team falling in a hole and losing. Rather he was one of two rays of sunshine in a dark result. And his on field enthusiasm and celebration still have that team lifting infectiousness to them.

Schultz has some goals and a few possessions and has not disgraced himself and has his chance to atone. Many here have made excuses for him, citing the difficulty of adjusting to a new game plan, that we could be waiting weeks to truly see his worth? Well, Ginnivan was at his best in the first half of the first game in a new team. He will be tearing the game apart in a few weeks if the 'adjustment' handicap is applied to him.

I’ll say Ginni had a decent half , but when the whips were cracking what was his output ? Barely sighted after half time. Essendon isn’t the calibre of Sydney or GWS so can’t really compare the games.

I’m still very confident in Schultz prospects.

 

[sr36]

I would like to see Dean and Murphy in the same defence. It would allow Dean to be more focused on the ball rather than the player. We really miss Murph

I've really got no idea, as I've only seen him play twice.

But our sagging defence works because our talls attack the footy - going for their marks or trying to kill the contest with a spoil. He's just not doing either. He's just trying to find an opponent lean on to try to nullify him and hope that a teammate impacts the contest, but he's not strong enough to do that either. Needs to attack the footy in the AFL - if he's good enough to, or learn to do so in the VFL.

 

[Scodog10]

I mean there's a balance to be struck no?

Young/untried players provide a spark, an energy, which generally benefits older teams.

Having a kid on each line seems like a decent balance to strike? Reef - Forward, Fin - Middle, Dean - Back

Absolutely there’s a balance you’ll find though that the post I quoted was referencing a call of Steene for Mihocek (I believe Steele for Allan was also mentioned). That spark, energy and perhaps even hunger often comes at the expense of system and as we discussed yesterday we’re a system team so we will lose if we make snap decisions on bringing youth through.

I’m all for a gradual introduction of emerging talent once they’ve earned their chance and once the chances of the incumbents have been exhausted. As we stand though aside from Macrae none of the emerging talent is knocking down the door and we’re scratching for experience that needs to go out. It’s why a Reef for AJ or Frampton for Cox or Noble for WHE are possibilities that might open the door for growth, but it’s tinkering at the edges really.

 

[Scodog10]

I've really got no idea, as I've only seen him play twice.

But our sagging defence works because our talls attack the footy - going for their marks or trying to kill the contest with a spoil. He's just not doing either. He's just trying to find an opponent lean on to try to nullify him and hope that a teammate impacts the contest, but he's not strong enough to do that either. Needs to attack the footy in the AFL - if he's good enough to, or learn to do so in the VFL.

I think he’s got Frampton covered in that capacity despite your assessment which is why I doubt we get a tangible benefit from making that switch. Frampton is who he is at least with Dean it might develop over a sustained period.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see that. Just don't think it will be about playing the kids - more about who they are going to back in to help us win the game. I'm not sure Dean will hold his spot though.

Dean is an interesting one - he has been getting to the right spots and looked composed with ball in hand - but has been really bad in a contest - he's just been trying to lean on players rather than worrying about the ball. Probably just confidence, so it'll depend on whether the coaches think they can get he will compete better with feedback or if it's a proper weakness that will need to be developed over time.

But when you're including Sullivan in your list who is no more of a kid than Noble, AJ, Frampton, you're really just saying drop players and give us something we haven't seen before.

Sullivan I mentioned more so out of him being a player that technically ticks both boxes.

He's a mature age player and often as we saw from Mihocek and Noble, they sometimes provide instant impact due to being both physically and mentally ready. But like young players, they're desperate for a shot, maybe even more so given they've known rejection for so long.

 

[Chris_2593]

Frampton training down back. Looks like it will be Frampton in for Dean and Reef in for Johnson.

 

[sr36]

I think he’s got Frampton covered in that capacity despite your assessment which is why I doubt we get a tangible benefit from making that switch. Frampton is who he is at least with Dean it might develop over a sustained period.

I agree with you in terms of Frampton - doesn't read it as well and also tends to be a leaner rather than playing with that confidence and genuine intent at the footy to disrupt attacks with a mark or clearing spoil. But I'd prefer him over Dean - unless Dean has been doing it at training and just needs the confidence for it to click in a game - as at least Billy has the strength to lean on blokes effectively.

Personally, I'd just go with Moore, Howe and Bruzzy until Dean is ready or Murphy is back - as I think that reading the game and ball flight and playing with genuine intent at the contest trumps size in our set up.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

According to the boys on the Pies insta stories, the focus at training today was high energy, high intensity.

Hopefully that combined with lots of footage to be shown of Nick this week to celebrate & honour his 50th game on Thursday, this all helps motivate the boys to pull their freaking finger out & get back to their best this week