Analysis Season 2021

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Sep 22, 2015
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I've stayed away from posting this season here, but have continued to read all the threads and i think most people are spot on with everything that they are saying, and some people are miles off as well. I'll put my 2c into this but it's not for a particular thread just an overall observation that I have had so far.

1. Basics
I was watching AFL 360 the other night when Petracca and Lewis were talking about certain things. There was a bit of footage shown were one of the Melbourne players were celebrating their first win, and someone poured milk on them and after the song Petracca was seen getting water and washing it off the young kid. Robbo asked him about the vision and Petracca said along the lines off it was not on and after the song we spoke about it as a team etc. Lewis then came in and said that at the Hawks everything was looked at from the smallest of things as it all added up to the big picture. That wanted to be as perfect as possible and have everyone buying into the culture. To build a cake every little layer needs to be perfect as otherwise it will crumble. Bringing this back to our club without going into selections/structures/performance etc the little things are not being ticked from top to bottom. For example when we release our team sheet it reads as follows: B: Frawley(BP) Wilkie(FB) Howard(BP) as the last line then HB: Webster(HBF) Hill(CHB) Sinclair(HBF) then you go and have a look at what the forward line reads F: McKernan (FP) Membrey(FF) King(FP) the HF: Butler (HFF) Byrnes (CHF) Higgins(HFF). Now to some people this may be laughable and say what has this got to do with anything, but when you haven't won anything for 50+ years and the way we are going every little bit is needed to make it work. Perfection is required across all levels and this is just one example were it really shouldnt be hard to fix.

2. Selection/Integrity
Over the past 4/5 year i feel as though we have not had any selection integrity particularly when it comes to senior players and performance. I have seen other clubs drop so called big name players at selection while we have not dropped a single big name plyer. The last time this was done was back in Ross Lyon's days. Our performances the last 4/5 years have been average to say the least (bar last year due to diff season) but the players that do get dropped or a statement have always been the fringe players or youngsters. Case in point this year, Butler/Hill should have copped a few weeks at Sandy for being out of form. Yet we have rewarded some mediocre efforts from them and continued with the same players rotating in and out of the team. Joyce for all his faults played in our 2 wins and as soon as Frawley gets back from injury he loses his spot. These are just examples this year, but i can go on and on.

3. Positions
Every since Ratts has come in, he has come in with an idea that every player should play various different positions. I agreed with him to a point that players should have a bit of flexibility, but he has literally lost the plot and is playing checkers with every single player. A few examples here that i do not agree with him. Battle is not a swingman/winger. When he first started out he looked to be gun CHF or a leading forward in the Jack Darling mould imo. We then needed to use him down back due to our shortage of KPD and he actually surprised me how he went. I've always said that you can cover defenders a bit easier than good forwards (i would play him forward personally), but would have been happy to see him play at either end of the ground. The last 2 years he has been thrown around everywhere mostly wing and has had little no impact and he the swagger/confidence he had as a youngster is all but gone. The other example is Hill/Sinclair who have been used as half back flankers. Sinclair was elite according to championship data as a winger, but has now been placed across the half back line to cover injuries (has played well) Again watching him when he does get moved into the midfield and near the ball he is much more suited that that role than he is at half back. He would have much more of an impact as a winger than what we are seeing with Josh Battle. Hill is another who is a natural winger and not a HBF. If he is out of form you give him a bit of time throughout the game at half to to get his confidence up. If after multiple games as a winger he isn't performing, you simply drop him due to point no.2 and that's selection integrity. This sets the standard and unfortunately when it comes to senior/experienced players and performance, we don't have standards. Another player is Billings. He was drafted as an elite half forward who would be getting 2/3 shots off every game on goal. Started he career as a great goal kicker but dropped away in terms of accuracy. He has been moved onto the wing the last 2/3 years and imo he is not having the same impact as he would if he remained a half forward. He has improved his performance and is getting much more of the ball, however he is not damaging enough in that position in terms of hitting the scoreboard. Play him back on that half forward line even with his kicking yips and let him have 15-20 disposals a game and 4 shots compared to 25 on a wing.

4. Coaching/Assistants
The jury is out on Ratts and we will find out a lot more about him in the next 12 weeks. I'm not calling for his head, but the buck stops with him and he needs to turn this around as our list is not as bad as we are performing and that stops at the coach. What my biggest issue here is the assistant coaches that we have had for the last 5/7 years in Hamil/Sexton/Skrobala etc. These guys have been here in the Richo era and now have survived to be in the Ratten era. I seriously don't see these guys as quality coaches because if they were, they would have been poached ie Kingsley/Bevo Teague as your defensive coach in 14 etc and they way we have poached Rath etc. With these guys being in charge of points 1,2,3,4 no wonder nothing is really working. I believe there should be a new assistant coming in every 2 or 3 years from another club to freshen up place/get new ideas. All we have done is throw these guys from the forward line to the backline to the midfield to development. I mean it's not a coincidence that structurally we are a shambles in defence When Hamil has taken over. The bloke played as a forward his whole career, structures and knowledge intricacy would he bring in when it comes to the art of defence???? Get someone in who has actually played as a defender and is looking at being a future coach/assistant. There are some great footy minds out there that need to be looked at. Get some club legends in roles back at the club who bleed RWB. Look no further than Montagna and Roo for specific specialised roles. Montagna listening to him on various football show has a fantastic footy brain imo better than most in our ranks at the moment. Get him in a role in terms of analysis or something. Roo spoke on the coach that he is a phone call away to help out King when he had those yips. What happens is Roughy goes on 360 and says he will be alright everyone gets the yips. In terms of Roughy he wants to get into list management, yet we have him as some sort of coach. It's clear as daylight that he wants to be involved in list management and the way he comes across on 360 that he is lacking in the coaching side of things (again imo).

5. Pre Season/Conditioning
Looking at us this year it's clear to every half switched on football person that we are physically well underdone in terms of fitness. There was an interview with Ratten at the start of pre season were he mentioned we were not doing the gruelling pre season running but they have left it to players to look after themselves and when they returned they focused on ball work. Now this is all well and good, but let's face it you cant rely on all the players to be a Robert Harvey and actually hammer out running/conditioning in their own time. Most will do the bare minimum with the exception of a few as that is just simple human nature. Considering it was a shorter pre season than usual, the proof is in the pudding when it comes to continually being out tackled and losing the uncontested possession count because you simple cant get to the contest as good as the other team and close down. Over the years it has been pretty obvious that for some reason our players seem to be boys playing against men. I actually think our strength and condition team have not been up to scratch in terms of getting harden body players.

There are many more things i can go into greater details such as recruiting and development, but that's for another time.
 
Not sure about 1 and 5 but the rest are fair enough


Just me I see how Roughead operates with players absolutely 1st Class, personally see no
issue giving AFL 360 doughnuts..agree with observation of fitness we have not trained anywhere
near as hard running wise this year , think the late season ending ,combined with AFL requirements
of players time off and importantly we had a few players having issues with feet & soft tissue over
the summer and just didn’t do the work due to it reoccurring.
Particularly Marshall , Jones ,Steele , Hannebery, Long , Gresham.
 

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While this year has been a terrible one, I look at the Melbourne’s 2018/2019 seasons and the comparisons

2018 Melbourne- 2020 St Kilda
Really shot up the ladder and got themselves into finals. Both teams were hovering around the bottom 10 for a few years. Melbourne went on too suprise a few and make a prelim. While we shocked I think the whole afl by not only making finals but getting a win. Melbourne ended up getting spanked by west coast. St kilda didn’t really get smashed by Richmond, but never looked like threading the tigers.

2019 Melbourne- 2021 St kilda
In 2019 a lot of people had high hopes on Melbourne once again moving up the ladder. Bought in Steven May who didn’t really work out in his first season due to injuries and form. But they started off really poorly. Started the year 1-5. Got spanked by Geelong by 80 points or so in round 2. For memory they also copped a few injuries in the preseason and early parts of the season. Lever, may etc. Also Weideman and McDonald were not firing after having pretty good seasons the year before. A bit like Melbourne, we had expeditions of climbing up the ladder and even securing a top 4 spot. Our 2021 season seemed doomed before we even started. Starting off with a broken leg to our co captain. Then it went really downhill from there. Followed was a Marshall foot injury, a broken leg to Paton, and personal leave from Ryder. A round one win against the giants have a sense of false hope to the fans for what would be a terrible season. After being dismantled by port Adelaide Essendon Richmond and now the dogs, the season is well and truly over.

So where too now?
do we bottom out and play a few of the younger guys?
Id love to see Bytel and Byrnes get a run for the rest of the year. Ireally think they can be AFL quality.
do we bring back Coffield and Long? Like could we put long back on a half forward flank again. Maybe even see Coffield on a wing.
We’ve gotta see if clavarino, Highmore and Connolly are with persisting with Now. Because the Frawley/McKernan has not worked.

it’s gonna be interesting to see what they do with the mid season draft pick. I really hope they pick up some young talented kid in what seems to be a very thin list to pick from.

Brightside is we will have a top 6 pick imo. Unless north get a priority which I don’t reckon will happen.
Do we try trade out our next years first to get into a first for this year. Like Melbourne did in 2019.
im not all doom and gloom yet.
 
We need to put a fork in McKernan and Frawley and not play them again this season.

Why Joyce was dropped in the first place was a dumb move as it's not like we were brining in Harris Andrew and Joyce had 5 kicked on him.

Moving forward i want to see a pretty much a full game in the centre from Bytel/Byrnes/Clark with also Higgins rotating through there. The other 2 mainstays are Steele and Crouch. All other players have had enough chances.

having 3 smalls has failed all season. I would keep Higgins and drop either Lonie or Butler and have another mid sized player back in.

My line up moving forward would be

B: Webster Howard Wilkie
HB: Highmore Joyce Geary
C: Sinclair Steele Hill
HF: Higgins Battle Billings
F: Butler King Membrey
R: Ryder Crouch Clark

Int: Ross Byrnes Bytel Coffield

If Joyce/Highmore don't play good enough i would try Clavarino for a 3 or so game stretch
If Butler/Higgins don't play good enough i would try Long for 3 or so games back across that forward line
Dunstan for Steele/Crouch/Ross if they are sub par
Connolly for Geary/Wilkie/Hill/Webster
 
I've stayed away from posting this season here, but have continued to read all the threads and i think most people are spot on with everything that they are saying, and some people are miles off as well. I'll put my 2c into this but it's not for a particular thread just an overall observation that I have had so far.

1. Basics
I was watching AFL 360 the other night when Petracca and Lewis were talking about certain things. There was a bit of footage shown were one of the Melbourne players were celebrating their first win, and someone poured milk on them and after the song Petracca was seen getting water and washing it off the young kid. Robbo asked him about the vision and Petracca said along the lines off it was not on and after the song we spoke about it as a team etc. Lewis then came in and said that at the Hawks everything was looked at from the smallest of things as it all added up to the big picture. That wanted to be as perfect as possible and have everyone buying into the culture. To build a cake every little layer needs to be perfect as otherwise it will crumble. Bringing this back to our club without going into selections/structures/performance etc the little things are not being ticked from top to bottom. For example when we release our team sheet it reads as follows: B: Frawley(BP) Wilkie(FB) Howard(BP) as the last line then HB: Webster(HBF) Hill(CHB) Sinclair(HBF) then you go and have a look at what the forward line reads F: McKernan (FP) Membrey(FF) King(FP) the HF: Butler (HFF) Byrnes (CHF) Higgins(HFF). Now to some people this may be laughable and say what has this got to do with anything, but when you haven't won anything for 50+ years and the way we are going every little bit is needed to make it work. Perfection is required across all levels and this is just one example were it really shouldnt be hard to fix.

2. Selection/Integrity
Over the past 4/5 year i feel as though we have not had any selection integrity particularly when it comes to senior players and performance. I have seen other clubs drop so called big name players at selection while we have not dropped a single big name plyer. The last time this was done was back in Ross Lyon's days. Our performances the last 4/5 years have been average to say the least (bar last year due to diff season) but the players that do get dropped or a statement have always been the fringe players or youngsters. Case in point this year, Butler/Hill should have copped a few weeks at Sandy for being out of form. Yet we have rewarded some mediocre efforts from them and continued with the same players rotating in and out of the team. Joyce for all his faults played in our 2 wins and as soon as Frawley gets back from injury he loses his spot. These are just examples this year, but i can go on and on.

3. Positions
Every since Ratts has come in, he has come in with an idea that every player should play various different positions. I agreed with him to a point that players should have a bit of flexibility, but he has literally lost the plot and is playing checkers with every single player. A few examples here that i do not agree with him. Battle is not a swingman/winger. When he first started out he looked to be gun CHF or a leading forward in the Jack Darling mould imo. We then needed to use him down back due to our shortage of KPD and he actually surprised me how he went. I've always said that you can cover defenders a bit easier than good forwards (i would play him forward personally), but would have been happy to see him play at either end of the ground. The last 2 years he has been thrown around everywhere mostly wing and has had little no impact and he the swagger/confidence he had as a youngster is all but gone. The other example is Hill/Sinclair who have been used as half back flankers. Sinclair was elite according to championship data as a winger, but has now been placed across the half back line to cover injuries (has played well) Again watching him when he does get moved into the midfield and near the ball he is much more suited that that role than he is at half back. He would have much more of an impact as a winger than what we are seeing with Josh Battle. Hill is another who is a natural winger and not a HBF. If he is out of form you give him a bit of time throughout the game at half to to get his confidence up. If after multiple games as a winger he isn't performing, you simply drop him due to point no.2 and that's selection integrity. This sets the standard and unfortunately when it comes to senior/experienced players and performance, we don't have standards. Another player is Billings. He was drafted as an elite half forward who would be getting 2/3 shots off every game on goal. Started he career as a great goal kicker but dropped away in terms of accuracy. He has been moved onto the wing the last 2/3 years and imo he is not having the same impact as he would if he remained a half forward. He has improved his performance and is getting much more of the ball, however he is not damaging enough in that position in terms of hitting the scoreboard. Play him back on that half forward line even with his kicking yips and let him have 15-20 disposals a game and 4 shots compared to 25 on a wing.

4. Coaching/Assistants
The jury is out on Ratts and we will find out a lot more about him in the next 12 weeks. I'm not calling for his head, but the buck stops with him and he needs to turn this around as our list is not as bad as we are performing and that stops at the coach. What my biggest issue here is the assistant coaches that we have had for the last 5/7 years in Hamil/Sexton/Skrobala etc. These guys have been here in the Richo era and now have survived to be in the Ratten era. I seriously don't see these guys as quality coaches because if they were, they would have been poached ie Kingsley/Bevo Teague as your defensive coach in 14 etc and they way we have poached Rath etc. With these guys being in charge of points 1,2,3,4 no wonder nothing is really working. I believe there should be a new assistant coming in every 2 or 3 years from another club to freshen up place/get new ideas. All we have done is throw these guys from the forward line to the backline to the midfield to development. I mean it's not a coincidence that structurally we are a shambles in defence When Hamil has taken over. The bloke played as a forward his whole career, structures and knowledge intricacy would he bring in when it comes to the art of defence???? Get someone in who has actually played as a defender and is looking at being a future coach/assistant. There are some great footy minds out there that need to be looked at. Get some club legends in roles back at the club who bleed RWB. Look no further than Montagna and Roo for specific specialised roles. Montagna listening to him on various football show has a fantastic footy brain imo better than most in our ranks at the moment. Get him in a role in terms of analysis or something. Roo spoke on the coach that he is a phone call away to help out King when he had those yips. What happens is Roughy goes on 360 and says he will be alright everyone gets the yips. In terms of Roughy he wants to get into list management, yet we have him as some sort of coach. It's clear as daylight that he wants to be involved in list management and the way he comes across on 360 that he is lacking in the coaching side of things (again imo).

5. Pre Season/Conditioning
Looking at us this year it's clear to every half switched on football person that we are physically well underdone in terms of fitness. There was an interview with Ratten at the start of pre season were he mentioned we were not doing the gruelling pre season running but they have left it to players to look after themselves and when they returned they focused on ball work. Now this is all well and good, but let's face it you cant rely on all the players to be a Robert Harvey and actually hammer out running/conditioning in their own time. Most will do the bare minimum with the exception of a few as that is just simple human nature. Considering it was a shorter pre season than usual, the proof is in the pudding when it comes to continually being out tackled and losing the uncontested possession count because you simple cant get to the contest as good as the other team and close down. Over the years it has been pretty obvious that for some reason our players seem to be boys playing against men. I actually think our strength and condition team have not been up to scratch in terms of getting harden body players.

There are many more things i can go into greater details such as recruiting and development, but that's for another time.

Bravo! Bloody nailed it. I've been saying the same thing all year. Lazy standards, everyone comfortable. At St Kilda, we can't afford NOT to nail everything little thing.
 
Good young list that got a bit too big for their boots after making a finals series. Might have drank the bath water, half arsed a pre-season and paid the price. Some critical injuries don't help either.

Need to trim a lot of older dead wood and maybe a few young ones to scare the list into working harder.

Have a look at the coaching panel and see if that's working.

The talent is there for a very strong team for years to come. Just not working hard enough, too "nice" of a team. I'd like to to go full D**K mode on the field!

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Good young list that got a bit too big for their boots after making a finals series. Might have drank the bath water, half arsed a pre-season and paid the price. Some critical injuries don't help either.

Need to trim a lot of older dead wood and maybe a few young ones to scare the list into working harder.

Have a look at the coaching panel and see if that's working.

The talent is there for a very strong team for years to come. Just not working hard enough, too "nice" of a team. I'd like to to go full D**K mode on the field!

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what do you mean when you say half arsed a pre season. I’ve never heard that.
 
I think the player we miss the most is 2020 Coffield. We quickly forget he was one of the best rebounding backs in the comp last year. So good at intercepting and setting up play. Hope he can get back his form soon, we are desperate for his rebound.
 
I've stayed away from posting this season here, but have continued to read all the threads and i think most people are spot on with everything that they are saying, and some people are miles off as well. I'll put my 2c into this but it's not for a particular thread just an overall observation that I have had so far.

1. Basics
I was watching AFL 360 the other night when Petracca and Lewis were talking about certain things. There was a bit of footage shown were one of the Melbourne players were celebrating their first win, and someone poured milk on them and after the song Petracca was seen getting water and washing it off the young kid. Robbo asked him about the vision and Petracca said along the lines off it was not on and after the song we spoke about it as a team etc. Lewis then came in and said that at the Hawks everything was looked at from the smallest of things as it all added up to the big picture. That wanted to be as perfect as possible and have everyone buying into the culture. To build a cake every little layer needs to be perfect as otherwise it will crumble. Bringing this back to our club without going into selections/structures/performance etc the little things are not being ticked from top to bottom. For example when we release our team sheet it reads as follows: B: Frawley(BP) Wilkie(FB) Howard(BP) as the last line then HB: Webster(HBF) Hill(CHB) Sinclair(HBF) then you go and have a look at what the forward line reads F: McKernan (FP) Membrey(FF) King(FP) the HF: Butler (HFF) Byrnes (CHF) Higgins(HFF). Now to some people this may be laughable and say what has this got to do with anything, but when you haven't won anything for 50+ years and the way we are going every little bit is needed to make it work. Perfection is required across all levels and this is just one example were it really shouldnt be hard to fix.

2. Selection/Integrity
Over the past 4/5 year i feel as though we have not had any selection integrity particularly when it comes to senior players and performance. I have seen other clubs drop so called big name players at selection while we have not dropped a single big name plyer. The last time this was done was back in Ross Lyon's days. Our performances the last 4/5 years have been average to say the least (bar last year due to diff season) but the players that do get dropped or a statement have always been the fringe players or youngsters. Case in point this year, Butler/Hill should have copped a few weeks at Sandy for being out of form. Yet we have rewarded some mediocre efforts from them and continued with the same players rotating in and out of the team. Joyce for all his faults played in our 2 wins and as soon as Frawley gets back from injury he loses his spot. These are just examples this year, but i can go on and on.

3. Positions
Every since Ratts has come in, he has come in with an idea that every player should play various different positions. I agreed with him to a point that players should have a bit of flexibility, but he has literally lost the plot and is playing checkers with every single player. A few examples here that i do not agree with him. Battle is not a swingman/winger. When he first started out he looked to be gun CHF or a leading forward in the Jack Darling mould imo. We then needed to use him down back due to our shortage of KPD and he actually surprised me how he went. I've always said that you can cover defenders a bit easier than good forwards (i would play him forward personally), but would have been happy to see him play at either end of the ground. The last 2 years he has been thrown around everywhere mostly wing and has had little no impact and he the swagger/confidence he had as a youngster is all but gone. The other example is Hill/Sinclair who have been used as half back flankers. Sinclair was elite according to championship data as a winger, but has now been placed across the half back line to cover injuries (has played well) Again watching him when he does get moved into the midfield and near the ball he is much more suited that that role than he is at half back. He would have much more of an impact as a winger than what we are seeing with Josh Battle. Hill is another who is a natural winger and not a HBF. If he is out of form you give him a bit of time throughout the game at half to to get his confidence up. If after multiple games as a winger he isn't performing, you simply drop him due to point no.2 and that's selection integrity. This sets the standard and unfortunately when it comes to senior/experienced players and performance, we don't have standards. Another player is Billings. He was drafted as an elite half forward who would be getting 2/3 shots off every game on goal. Started he career as a great goal kicker but dropped away in terms of accuracy. He has been moved onto the wing the last 2/3 years and imo he is not having the same impact as he would if he remained a half forward. He has improved his performance and is getting much more of the ball, however he is not damaging enough in that position in terms of hitting the scoreboard. Play him back on that half forward line even with his kicking yips and let him have 15-20 disposals a game and 4 shots compared to 25 on a wing.

4. Coaching/Assistants
The jury is out on Ratts and we will find out a lot more about him in the next 12 weeks. I'm not calling for his head, but the buck stops with him and he needs to turn this around as our list is not as bad as we are performing and that stops at the coach. What my biggest issue here is the assistant coaches that we have had for the last 5/7 years in Hamil/Sexton/Skrobala etc. These guys have been here in the Richo era and now have survived to be in the Ratten era. I seriously don't see these guys as quality coaches because if they were, they would have been poached ie Kingsley/Bevo Teague as your defensive coach in 14 etc and they way we have poached Rath etc. With these guys being in charge of points 1,2,3,4 no wonder nothing is really working. I believe there should be a new assistant coming in every 2 or 3 years from another club to freshen up place/get new ideas. All we have done is throw these guys from the forward line to the backline to the midfield to development. I mean it's not a coincidence that structurally we are a shambles in defence When Hamil has taken over. The bloke played as a forward his whole career, structures and knowledge intricacy would he bring in when it comes to the art of defence???? Get someone in who has actually played as a defender and is looking at being a future coach/assistant. There are some great footy minds out there that need to be looked at. Get some club legends in roles back at the club who bleed RWB. Look no further than Montagna and Roo for specific specialised roles. Montagna listening to him on various football show has a fantastic footy brain imo better than most in our ranks at the moment. Get him in a role in terms of analysis or something. Roo spoke on the coach that he is a phone call away to help out King when he had those yips. What happens is Roughy goes on 360 and says he will be alright everyone gets the yips. In terms of Roughy he wants to get into list management, yet we have him as some sort of coach. It's clear as daylight that he wants to be involved in list management and the way he comes across on 360 that he is lacking in the coaching side of things (again imo).

5. Pre Season/Conditioning
Looking at us this year it's clear to every half switched on football person that we are physically well underdone in terms of fitness. There was an interview with Ratten at the start of pre season were he mentioned we were not doing the gruelling pre season running but they have left it to players to look after themselves and when they returned they focused on ball work. Now this is all well and good, but let's face it you cant rely on all the players to be a Robert Harvey and actually hammer out running/conditioning in their own time. Most will do the bare minimum with the exception of a few as that is just simple human nature. Considering it was a shorter pre season than usual, the proof is in the pudding when it comes to continually being out tackled and losing the uncontested possession count because you simple cant get to the contest as good as the other team and close down. Over the years it has been pretty obvious that for some reason our players seem to be boys playing against men. I actually think our strength and condition team have not been up to scratch in terms of getting harden body players.

There are many more things i can go into greater details such as recruiting and development, but that's for another time.

Excellent post.
 

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I agree 1 is a bit of a stretch. Bevo is notorious for taking the piss with lineups. Even Caleb Daniel brings it up how his family gets a laugh about him being named at RR. That didn't stop them hammering us by 111 points.

Well they can afford to.
Whereas we need to dot every i and cross every t to become a professional club, because something is just not right.
 
I think the player we miss the most is 2020 Coffield. We quickly forget he was one of the best rebounding backs in the comp last year. So good at intercepting and setting up play. Hope he can get back his form soon, we are desperate for his rebound.
Also missing Paton. He would’ve towelled up that little cheat weightman last night
 
the situation seems worse than it is in reality - that said, if we do not identify the key issues quickly, we will capitulate.

I completely agree that Ratten needs to persist with players in their positions. Coffield looked like a deer in the headlights early in his career but developed beautifully. As a side note - why isn’t he playing?

I feel as if the standards set are quite low. You get what you put in. We can’t expect to play hawthorn every week. We have to have the mentality to put up with the rigours of the game and hold ourselves accountable to our actions.

next week will tell a lot. Go Saints!
 
What I'm saying there is, the proof is in front of us. Poor start to the season, no run and flare like we used to be known for. Just a flat footed, lethargic team right now.

Be that from fitness or training standards or application, a poor start to the season comes off the back of poor planning and a poor preseason
Yes I know that but I’ve never heard that. I didn’t hear anything bad about pre season. Matter of fact it all looked positive during the 2 practice games.

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So the next month ahead looks ‘easier’ on paper. Depends which Saints side turns up. Sydney are a better side than us this year. Adelaide are playing fast & attractive footy.. a style we’ve struggled with against this year.

Then the following month, we have the Pies who we should beat. But also Richmond, Port & Bris away..

If we don’t win 2/3 before the bye - it’s going to get uglier and uglier. Can really see the drums beating.
 
Good young list that got a bit too big for their boots after making a finals series. Might have drank the bath water, half arsed a pre-season and paid the price. Some critical injuries don't help either.

Need to trim a lot of older dead wood and maybe a few young ones to scare the list into working harder.

Have a look at the coaching panel and see if that's working.

The talent is there for a very strong team for years to come. Just not working hard enough, too "nice" of a team. I'd like to to go full D**K mode on the field!

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Just a crappy list to be honest, people over rate how good our list is every year which is ironic because when we were playing off in GFs we had a good list and every one used to bag half the players. Guys like Gram and Dawson would be in our top 10 players these days, we have no real depth beyond our best 22 and our 22 isn't that great. Good sides have about 30 very good players and some developing talent. We have a best 22 then fall off a cliff and a few developing players. People don't understand what other lists look like to compare to, we are more like North Melbourne and the Hawks than the Dogs, Brisbane or Melbourne.
 
So the next month ahead looks ‘easier’ on paper. Depends which Saints side turns up. Sydney are a better side than us this year. Adelaide are playing fast & attractive footy.. a style we’ve struggled with against this year.

Then the following month, we have the Pies who we should beat. But also Richmond, Port & Bris away..

If we don’t win 2/3 before the bye - it’s going to get uglier and uglier. Can really see the drums beating.
Go ugly early get it out the way and get on the grog
 
Has anyone really looked hard at our drafting over the last ten years or so? Like really hard? St Kilda has been horrible when hitting the pre season draft. We trade away our first rounders, ignore the general consensus and go left field with a high selection and what we do pick up generally is a fail where the quality of the draft is. I did not realise things were so bad until looking at every draft in recent times.

The only way we have remained viable is continuously trading in players on the outer edges of other clubs.

Allison - We traded away our first so here we land with this, our first pick. So far signs are not promising from VFL reports.
Battle - Pick 41, a regular, a win.
Billings - No complaints from me but as we know Bont went next pick.
Carlisle - Poached, been good but not pick five good.
Clark - Actually got one right!
Coffield - This was a left field selection as he came decent late, Naughton next pick. That's 2 for 2 the dogs have outsmarted us.
Crouch - Freebie due to draft rules/compo and him choosing us, no brainpower required.
Dunstan - fail
Frawley - top up, will do for a year but only took him because of previous bad drafting/trading.
Geary - Rookie draft selection from 14 years ago, a toss at the stumps.
Gresham - best available with our pick. However why did we have pick 18 to begin with? Carlisle for pick five. Pick five could have got us, Darcy Parish, Harry McKay or Doedee or bid on Hopper, Himmelberg or Hipwood.
Hannebery - This is just a contract issue. 800k/year for a busted up player.
Higgins - second rounder, no harm done, a win.
Mccartin - Everyone had Petracca before him except St Kilda.
Brad Hill - Gave away Acres, pick 10 and last years second rounder for an outside player... So with pick 10 we could have had a Kosi Pickett, Cody Weightman or Miles Bergman.
Bruce - Given away for pick 32. Plenty here were happy too. The hell.
Howard - Fulfilled a dire need, a tall quality defender. Worth it.
Hunter - only because we havent bought in a decent young ruck.
Mckernan - As above.
Zak Jones - Cost a second rounder. A win.
King - It's there. A win.
Ben Long - Second rounder, i say it's a win. Still think he will come good.
Lonie - Pick 41. A win.
Marshall - Rookie draft throw at the stumps. No brainpower required. Hit gold.
McKenzie - fail
Membrey - A win. Cost us fk all. Swans lost out here but they were stacked with talls at the time so i understand it.
Paton - Nailed a late pick. Big Win.
Roberton - Traded to us for not much and we won well.
Ross - pick 25. A big win.
Ryder - Trade. Hit gold for the time he has left in the game. No brainpower required, he chose us.
Sinclair - Rookie draft, got lucky. Win.
Steele - Cost a second rounder as the giants let him walk. Massive win.
Webster - late pick. win.
Wilkie - rookie draft gamble, hit gold.
Wood - A top up and for how much longer?

23% (five players) of our best 22 we got through the PSD as a first rounder. One of those is currently sitting in the seconds till he fixes his attitude and another out for the year. Our later picks that are current regulars while a win are not the quality you need to challenge for a flag. To get those types you have to nail your high picks and not give them away!

Petracca, Naughton, Bont, Pickett and Parish all went NEXT pick or would have been our pick if we didn't give ours away. This doesn't include all the drafts we have traded away other picks for god knows what that i can't remember. Tom lee just hit my memory banks....
 
Has anyone really looked hard at our drafting over the last ten years or so? Like really hard? St Kilda has been horrible when hitting the pre season draft. We trade away our first rounders, ignore the general consensus and go left field with a high selection and what we do pick up generally is a fail where the quality of the draft is. I did not realise things were so bad until looking at every draft in recent times.

The only way we have remained viable is continuously trading in players on the outer edges of other clubs.

Allison - We traded away our first so here we land with this, our first pick. So far signs are not promising from VFL reports.
Battle - Pick 41, a regular, a win.
Billings - No complaints from me but as we know Bont went next pick.
Carlisle - Poached, been good but not pick five good.
Clark - Actually got one right!
Coffield - This was a left field selection as he came decent late, Naughton next pick. That's 2 for 2 the dogs have outsmarted us.
Crouch - Freebie due to draft rules/compo and him choosing us, no brainpower required.
Dunstan - fail
Frawley - top up, will do for a year but only took him because of previous bad drafting/trading.
Geary - Rookie draft selection from 14 years ago, a toss at the stumps.
Gresham - best available with our pick. However why did we have pick 18 to begin with? Carlisle for pick five. Pick five could have got us, Darcy Parish, Harry McKay or Doedee or bid on Hopper, Himmelberg or Hipwood.
Hannebery - This is just a contract issue. 800k/year for a busted up player.
Higgins - second rounder, no harm done, a win.
Mccartin - Everyone had Petracca before him except St Kilda.
Brad Hill - Gave away Acres, pick 10 and last years second rounder for an outside player... So with pick 10 we could have had a Kosi Pickett, Cody Weightman or Miles Bergman.
Bruce - Given away for pick 32. Plenty here were happy too. The hell.
Howard - Fulfilled a dire need, a tall quality defender. Worth it.
Hunter - only because we havent bought in a decent young ruck.
Mckernan - As above.
Zak Jones - Cost a second rounder. A win.
King - It's there. A win.
Ben Long - Second rounder, i say it's a win. Still think he will come good.
Lonie - Pick 41. A win.
Marshall - Rookie draft throw at the stumps. No brainpower required. Hit gold.
McKenzie - fail
Membrey - A win. Cost us fk all. Swans lost out here but they were stacked with talls at the time so i understand it.
Paton - Nailed a late pick. Big Win.
Roberton - Traded to us for not much and we won well.
Ross - pick 25. A big win.
Ryder - Trade. Hit gold for the time he has left in the game. No brainpower required, he chose us.
Sinclair - Rookie draft, got lucky. Win.
Steele - Cost a second rounder as the giants let him walk. Massive win.
Webster - late pick. win.
Wilkie - rookie draft gamble, hit gold.
Wood - A top up and for how much longer?

23% (five players) of our best 22 we got through the PSD as a first rounder. One of those is currently sitting in the seconds till he fixes his attitude and another out for the year. Our later picks that are current regulars while a win are not the quality you need to challenge for a flag. To get those types you have to nail your high picks and not give them away!

Petracca, Naughton, Bont, Pickett and Parish all went NEXT pick or would have been our pick if we didn't give ours away. This doesn't include all the drafts we have traded away other picks for god knows what that i can't remember. Tom lee just hit my memory banks....
Yep, I broke them out into positions too the other day, if you count Gresham & Byrnes we've drafted 6 midfielders in a decade… would have to be the lowest in the comp by an absolute mile.

Parish was the don's pick we never had BTW - Francis was our pick…

2020
Pick 26 - Allison - half forward
Pick 45 - Highmore - mature half back

2019
Pick 52 - Byrnes - small mid/fwd
Pick- 64 - Connolly - half back/mid

2018
Pick 4 - King - key forward
Pick 41 - Bytel - inside mid
Pick 47 - Parker - mature half forward
Pick 54 - Hind - mature half back (never tried there)
Pick 67 - Young - mature small forward
Rookie - Wilkie - medium defender

2017
Pick 7 - Clark - Mid
Pick 8 - Coffield - Half back
Pick 35 - Clavarino - key defender
Pick 46 - Paton - small defender

2016
Pick 25 - Long - half forward - into a half back
Pick 39 - Battle - WTF knows
Pick 56 - Phillips - wingman
Rookie - Marshall FWD/RUCK

2015
Pick 18 - Gresham - small Mid/Fwd
Pick 40 - White - medium defender
Pick 49 - Rice - small defender

2014
Pick 1 - McCartin - Key Forward
Pick 21 - Goddard - Key defender
Pick 22 - McKenzie - Mid/HB
Pick 41 - Lonie - small forward
Rookie - Sinclair - utility

2013
Pick 3 - Billings - Wing / half forward
Pick 18 - Dunstan - inside mid
Pick 19 - Acres - Wing/steak knives

2012
Pick 24 - Wright - small defender
Pick 25 - White - key forward
Pick 40 - Murdoch - half back
Pick 43 - Saunders - Small defender
Pick 75 - Pierce - Ruck
Pick 90 - Dunell - medium forward

2011
Pick 25 - Ross - Mid
Pick 35 - Markworth - Wing
Pick 37 - Newnes - HB
Pick 42 - Webster - half back
Pick 60 - Lever - key forward?
Pick 68 - Maister - Key forward
 
Yep, I broke them out into positions too the other day, if you count Gresham & Byrnes we've drafted 6 midfielders in a decade… would have to be the lowest in the comp by an absolute mile.

Parish was the don's pick we never had BTW - Francis was our pick…

2020
Pick 26 - Allison - half forward
Pick 45 - Highmore - mature half back

2019
Pick 52 - Byrnes - small mid/fwd
Pick- 64 - Connolly - half back/mid

2018
Pick 4 - King - key forward
Pick 41 - Bytel - inside mid
Pick 47 - Parker - mature half forward
Pick 54 - Hind - mature half back (never tried there)
Pick 67 - Young - mature small forward
Rookie - Wilkie - medium defender

2017
Pick 7 - Clark - Mid
Pick 8 - Coffield - Half back
Pick 35 - Clavarino - key defender
Pick 46 - Paton - small defender

2016
Pick 25 - Long - half forward - into a half back
Pick 39 - Battle - WTF knows
Pick 56 - Phillips - wingman
Rookie - Marshall FWD/RUCK

2015
Pick 18 - Gresham - small Mid/Fwd
Pick 40 - White - medium defender
Pick 49 - Rice - small defender

2014
Pick 1 - McCartin - Key Forward
Pick 21 - Goddard - Key defender
Pick 22 - McKenzie - Mid/HB
Pick 41 - Lonie - small forward
Rookie - Sinclair - utility

2013
Pick 3 - Billings - Wing / half forward
Pick 18 - Dunstan - inside mid
Pick 19 - Acres - Wing/steak knives

2012
Pick 24 - Wright - small defender
Pick 25 - White - key forward
Pick 40 - Murdoch - half back
Pick 43 - Saunders - Small defender
Pick 75 - Pierce - Ruck
Pick 90 - Dunell - medium forward

2011
Pick 25 - Ross - Mid
Pick 35 - Markworth - Wing
Pick 37 - Newnes - HB
Pick 42 - Webster - half back
Pick 60 - Lever - key forward?
Pick 68 - Maister - Key forward

In ten years we have a gone five years without a first rounder. Two of our three top five picks produced a gun footballer at the next pick. Naughton will probably end up a gun too. I know i keep repeating it but yea how bad can we be.

Yeah you are right on Parish, failed to see the matched bid. Still left us numerous good footballers to choose from but knowing St Kilda they would of went Francis too.
 

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