Religion See religion is an existential threat to our society

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Seeds

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We have long been told that religion is harmless. religious people may be nutters who believe that everyone are slaves to the whims of imaginary fairies in the sky but in practise they mostly adjust their views on social practises to fit in with the views of normal people (Excluding some minor things like abortion, condoms, womens rights etc).

but today they showed us this is not true.


By strongly discouraging the use of incentives for everyone to vaccinate they have sowed the seeds of mass vaccine hesitancy which will prevent us from getting where we need to be with vaccines. For vaccines to create herd immunity we need to get well above 80 percent vaccination. Probably well above 90 percent. the church leaders have killed any chance of that happening. They have doomed us all to ongoing pandemics, masks, social distancing, border controls and lockdowns. people dont realise this yet but this is what they have done. Society will never truly return to the pre pandemic days as a result.

we now have the evidence we need to move towards a society that ends religion. Religion has also sowed the seeds to its destruction today. They are not harmless nutters. They are dangerous uneducated people.

the progressive left needs to move away from the mantra of tolerance of religion to promoting humanism ahead of all religions. The science has come a long way over the past 150 years. We now know beyond reasonable doubt that reality is indeed only physical and there are no gods and objective universal moralities. So why do we continue to pretend its ok to believe in gods let alone follow their whims? Its harmless was the answer many fell back on. Well that argument has been destroyed today. We need to be humanists. we need to realise that the goal of society is to promote the well being of humans. And this leads us all to getting vaccinated. Well being is the goal. Not gods. Not freedom. But well being.

Ban religions. Mandate vaccines for all who dont have relevant medical conditions.
 

Evolved1

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Utter nonsense.

-The UK have scrapped vaccine passports.
-Predominantly atheist Sweden never used lockdowns.
-Denmark has lifted all covid restrictions.

I'm no fan of religion, but it's less dangerous than your thinking.
 

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Achy Blakey Heart

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We have long been told that religion is harmless. religious people may be nutters who believe that everyone are slaves to the whims of imaginary fairies in the sky but in practise they mostly adjust their views on social practises to fit in with the views of normal people (Excluding some minor things like abortion, condoms, womens rights etc).

but today they showed us this is not true.


By strongly discouraging the use of incentives for everyone to vaccinate they have sowed the seeds of mass vaccine hesitancy which will prevent us from getting where we need to be with vaccines. For vaccines to create herd immunity we need to get well above 80 percent vaccination. Probably well above 90 percent. the church leaders have killed any chance of that happening. They have doomed us all to ongoing pandemics, masks, social distancing, border controls and lockdowns. people dont realise this yet but this is what they have done. Society will never truly return to the pre pandemic days as a result.

we now have the evidence we need to move towards a society that ends religion. Religion has also sowed the seeds to its destruction today. They are not harmless nutters. They are dangerous uneducated people.

the progressive left needs to move away from the mantra of tolerance of religion to promoting humanism ahead of all religions. The science has come a long way over the past 150 years. We now know beyond reasonable doubt that reality is indeed only physical and there are no gods and objective universal moralities. So why do we continue to pretend its ok to believe in gods let alone follow their whims? Its harmless was the answer many fell back on. Well that argument has been destroyed today. We need to be humanists. we need to realise that the goal of society is to promote the well being of humans. And this leads us all to getting vaccinated. Well being is the goal. Not gods. Not freedom. But well being.

Ban religions. Mandate vaccines for all who dont have relevant medical conditions.
How tolerant of you.....

If you rid the world of religion something else more powerful and sinister will just be created by humans in its place. Power is a magnet for the corrupt.
 

Seeds

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Utter nonsense.

-The UK have scrapped vaccine passports.
-Predominantly atheist Sweden never used lockdowns.
-Denmark has lifted all covid restrictions.

I'm no fan of religion, but it's less dangerous than your thinking.
europe has a death toll that australains have been unwilling to accept. Australian leaders will not open our society with less then 80 percent vaccination rates. Australians will need over 90 percent of total population before they release all restrictions.

europe will also be proven wrong. Its been their summer as they opened up. winter is coming which will prove to be too infectious without restrictions. New strains more contagious then delta will also emerge With current rates of vaccinations and force lockdowms again as deaths emerge.

remember europe thought things were returning to normal this time last year. They were wrong. They will be wrong again.
 
Last edited:

Seeds

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Yeah.



Nah.
cons for wellbeing of everyone having vaccines: a needle prick that lasts 1 second, Slightly feeling unwell for half a day, 1 in a 500 thousand chance of bad side effects.

pros for wellbeing of everyone (without relevant medical conditions) having vaccine: a virus with a death rate of 1 in 100 doesnt spread through the community, freedom of travel across the world, freedom to visit family/friends/sex workers/whoever the hell you want, no long covid that causes suffering for months, large mass community events, cheaper prices, no major growing debt problems.


its so overwhelmingly yes if you believe in maximising well being that there no possible argument you could put up.
 

Seeds

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How tolerant of you.....

If you rid the world of religion something else more powerful and sinister will just be created by humans in its place. Power is a magnet for the corrupt.
That threat doesnt mean you dont try. The only way to get a better world is to actually try. Under your argument we never would of got rid of monarchies.

And why should we be tolerant? We arent tolerant of thieves, disease, poverty, corruption, snake oil merchants. Why should we be tolerant of something that is clearly wrong and doing damage to society. In the past it had some virtues but it has none in a modern society.

and when i say ban i dont mean criminalising it or rounding people up or closing churches. I mean making sure all schools are independent of religion propoganda and all kids at schools are taught what religion actually is and why it is false. I mean removing all subsidies for religions. I mean removing the right to ignore laws everyone else has to follow based off religious reasons.
 

Seeds

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No, we dont know this.

Or if we do know this, then you might want to call up a few academic journals for them to review your scholarly work where you prove this.
saying it was only beyond reasonable doubt was being kind.

since the scientific revolution began 100s of years ago humans have carried out millions of peer reviewed empirical studies on the cause of phenomenon we have found in our universe. not once has a spiritual force been determined as a cause of an event. A score of 0 out of millions of tests is beyond reasonable doubt. Far beyond it. Physical forces are always eventually found to be the cause.

and religion is more then just any type of spiritual force. Its about omnipotent conscious forces who create objective morality. Logical reasoning alone prooves these do not exist. Its as watertight as a mathmatical proof.
 

Malifice

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since the scientific revolution began 100s of years ago humans have carried out millions of peer reviewed empirical studies on the cause of phenomenon we have found in our universe. not once has a spiritual force been determined as a cause of an event. A score of 0 out of millions of tests is beyond reasonable doubt. Far beyond it. Physical forces are always eventually found to be the cause.
Its been a while, but I'll bite.

Do scientists in Neo's matrix do the same tests and get the same results?

If so, what have they 'proven'?
 

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travelli

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saying it was only beyond reasonable doubt was being kind.

since the scientific revolution began 100s of years ago humans have carried out millions of peer reviewed empirical studies on the cause of phenomenon we have found in our universe. not once has a spiritual force been determined as a cause of an event. A score of 0 out of millions of tests is beyond reasonable doubt. Far beyond it. Physical forces are always eventually found to be the cause.

and religion is more then just any type of spiritual force. Its about omnipotent conscious forces who create objective morality. Logical reasoning alone prooves these do not exist. Its as watertight as a mathmatical proof.
Ultimately, faith is a choice. One can choose to believe that nothing exists beyond the material realm, that the universe originated purely through physical processes that reflect nothing more than the articulation of the most basic properties of matter and energy — without cause, value or purpose. Or one can view the universe itself as an animating spirit that binds together the souls of you and me and everyone else — perhaps everything else — that is or was or has ever been.
 

Pie eyed

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We have long been told that religion is harmless. religious people may be nutters who believe that everyone are slaves to the whims of imaginary fairies in the sky but in practise they mostly adjust their views on social practises to fit in with the views of normal people (Excluding some minor things like abortion, condoms, womens rights etc).

but today they showed us this is not true.


By strongly discouraging the use of incentives for everyone to vaccinate they have sowed the seeds of mass vaccine hesitancy which will prevent us from getting where we need to be with vaccines. For vaccines to create herd immunity we need to get well above 80 percent vaccination. Probably well above 90 percent. the church leaders have killed any chance of that happening. They have doomed us all to ongoing pandemics, masks, social distancing, border controls and lockdowns. people dont realise this yet but this is what they have done. Society will never truly return to the pre pandemic days as a result.

we now have the evidence we need to move towards a society that ends religion. Religion has also sowed the seeds to its destruction today. They are not harmless nutters. They are dangerous uneducated people.

the progressive left needs to move away from the mantra of tolerance of religion to promoting humanism ahead of all religions. The science has come a long way over the past 150 years. We now know beyond reasonable doubt that reality is indeed only physical and there are no gods and objective universal moralities. So why do we continue to pretend its ok to believe in gods let alone follow their whims? Its harmless was the answer many fell back on. Well that argument has been destroyed today. We need to be humanists. we need to realise that the goal of society is to promote the well being of humans. And this leads us all to getting vaccinated. Well being is the goal. Not gods. Not freedom. But well being.

Ban religions. Mandate vaccines for all who dont have relevant medical conditions.
This is because Churches rely on stupid people to fill their pews.
 

Seeds

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Sorry, what?

People can believe whatever they like. You want the government to criminalise certain beliefs? You're a deeply confused individual.

Would you say you subscribe to liberal values?
Yep im a liberal. And people cant believe in whatever they like. They cant believe in superior races, child porn, slavery, gender segregation in the workplace, making homosexuality illegal Etc. Liberals cant believe in these things. Believing in magical fairies that enslave us should also not be allowed. Because like all those things above, believing in them causes serious harm to peoples wellbeing. We teach people in school as to why they are wrong. We should do the same for religion.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Yep im a liberal. And people cant believe in whatever they like.
Yes, they can. How can you be a liberal and also want the government to criminalise beliefs?

You are deeply confused about your principles.

They cant believe in superior races, child porn, slavery, gender segregation in the workplace, making homosexuality illegal
People can believe whatever they like. It's actions that are illegal.

You can believe in racial essentialism all you like. You can believe in slavery. You can believe in child porn, whatever that means.

It's actions that are criminal.

Surely this is basic stuff.

Liberals cant believe in these things. Believing in magical fairies that enslave us should also not be allowed.
Should there be a special department in the government that polices these thought crimes? Is that what you're advocating?

Because like all those things above, believing in them causes serious harm to peoples wellbeing.
So you ban the action that does harm. Did this seriously not occur to you?

We teach people in school as to why they are wrong. We should do the same for religion.
WTF are you on about?

You claim to have liberal values but you want to "ban religion", effectively creating a category of thought crime.

You don't know whether you're coming or going.
 

jim_shoes

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We have long been told that religion is harmless. religious people may be nutters who believe that everyone are slaves to the whims of imaginary fairies in the sky but in practise they mostly adjust their views on social practises to fit in with the views of normal people (Excluding some minor things like abortion, condoms, womens rights etc).

but today they showed us this is not true.


By strongly discouraging the use of incentives for everyone to vaccinate they have sowed the seeds of mass vaccine hesitancy which will prevent us from getting where we need to be with vaccines. For vaccines to create herd immunity we need to get well above 80 percent vaccination. Probably well above 90 percent. the church leaders have killed any chance of that happening. They have doomed us all to ongoing pandemics, masks, social distancing, border controls and lockdowns. people dont realise this yet but this is what they have done. Society will never truly return to the pre pandemic days as a result.

we now have the evidence we need to move towards a society that ends religion. Religion has also sowed the seeds to its destruction today. They are not harmless nutters. They are dangerous uneducated people.

the progressive left needs to move away from the mantra of tolerance of religion to promoting humanism ahead of all religions. The science has come a long way over the past 150 years. We now know beyond reasonable doubt that reality is indeed only physical and there are no gods and objective universal moralities. So why do we continue to pretend its ok to believe in gods let alone follow their whims? Its harmless was the answer many fell back on. Well that argument has been destroyed today. We need to be humanists. we need to realise that the goal of society is to promote the well being of humans. And this leads us all to getting vaccinated. Well being is the goal. Not gods. Not freedom. But well being.

Ban religions. Mandate vaccines for all who dont have relevant medical conditions.
Wow! Whatever you want dude. I think you might find you have alot in common with these uneducated nutter.
 

Seeds

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Yes, they can. How can you be a liberal and also want the government to criminalise beliefs?

You are deeply confused about your principles.

People can believe whatever they like. It's actions that are illegal.

You can believe in racial essentialism all you like. You can believe in slavery. You can believe in child porn, whatever that means.

It's actions that are criminal.

Surely this is basic stuff.

Should there be a special department in the government that polices these thought crimes? Is that what you're advocating?

So you ban the action that does harm. Did this seriously not occur to you?

WTF are you on about?

You claim to have liberal values but you want to "ban religion", effectively creating a category of thought crime.

You don't know whether you're coming or going.
When i say ban i dont mean ban in the way you are using the term.

people can believe in religion in the same way they can believe in pedophilia and slavery. i just dont want them acting on it. Im not even proposing hard bans of closing churches either. Im talking about soft bans of mandating religion out of schools, teaching kids that religions are false and removing subsidies and legal protections for religions.
 

Seeds

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This is because Churches rely on stupid people to fill their pews.
Yes it does seem odd that christian leaders would be against somethign that involves sacrificing to help your fellow man. It sounds exactly like something the jesus of the bible would advocate.

but you may have hit the nail on the head. The church advocates what its people want rather then telling them how to behave. Thats the absurdity of religion.
 

Pie eyed

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Sorry, what?

People can believe whatever they like. You want the government to criminalise certain beliefs? You're a deeply confused individual.

Would you say you subscribe to liberal values?
Removing "state" run religious propaganda programs from schools is hardly criminalising "certain beliefs".

Religions should pay taxes, bid for Government handouts just like sporting organisations or other self interest groups. and be held just as accountable for the crimes they commit (financial as well as criminal), false advertising and/or for publishing false information as any corporation.

All religious organizations should be held to the same burden of proof we hold any organisation making wild, foundationless claims.

Tything should be illegal, as it is a form of extortion.

It should be illegal to bequeath money or property to a religious organisation without at least 2 psychiatrists testifying the donor was of sound mind and had not been "groomed" by a church member or priest in the 24 months before their death.
In the event the church was to inherit money or property it should be beholding to the organisation, without chance of passing their responsibility to some off-shore entity, that they first ensure that they contact all known surviving members of the deceased family, at their own cost, and ensure that any surviving members of the deceased family are not in any form of financial, mental or medical distress, and remedy this distress either monetarily, or by providing the property as a source of income, or a source of accommodation, or medically relinquishing all claim from that point on, this before they take one cent or accept any claim to property.
This resultant windfall should then be fully taxed as the capital gain that is.

That is a bit of a short list.
I am sure I will think of more.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Removing "state" run religious propaganda programs from schools is hardly criminalising "certain beliefs".
I was responding to his initial call to "ban religions", which is absurd.

Religions should pay taxes, bid for Government handouts just like sporting organisations or other self interest groups. and be held just as accountable for the crimes they commit (financial as well as criminal), false advertising and/or for publishing false information as any corporation.

All religious organizations should be held to the same burden of proof we hold any organisation making wild, foundationless claims.

Tything should be illegal, as it is a form of extortion.

It should be illegal to bequeath money or property to a religious organisation without at least 2 psychiatrists testifying the donor was of sound mind and had not been "groomed" by a church member or priest in the 24 months before their death.
In the event the church was to inherit money or property it should be beholding to the organisation, without chance of passing their responsibility to some off-shore entity, that they first ensure that they contact all known surviving members of the deceased family, at their own cost, and ensure that any surviving members of the deceased family are not in any form of financial, mental or medical distress, and remedy this distress either monetarily, or by providing the property as a source of income, or a source of accommodation, or medically relinquishing all claim from that point on, this before they take one cent or accept any claim to property.
This resultant windfall should then be fully taxed as the capital gain that is.

That is a bit of a short list.
I am sure I will think of more.
See above.
 

Sweet Jesus

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When i say ban i dont mean ban in the way you are using the term.
You mean you're not using the word "ban" in the way it's commonly understood by people who speak English?

When you say "ban religions", you don't actually mean "ban religions".

Do you see why I say you're confused?

people can believe in religion in the same way they can believe in pedophilia and slavery. i just dont want them acting on it.
What does that mean? They can't observe Ramadan? They can't observe Passover? They can't take Communion?

What authority does the government have to prevent people doing that? This is profoundly illiberal.

You've lost your marbles.
 

Seeds

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You mean you're not using the word "ban" in the way it's commonly understood by people who speak English?

When you say "ban religions", you don't actually mean "ban religions".

Do you see why I say you're confused?

What does that mean? They can't observe Ramadan? They can't observe Passover? They can't take Communion?

What authority does the government have to prevent people doing that? This is profoundly illiberal.

You've lost your marbles.
Ive literally just posted what it would entail. You ignored it and made up your own explanation and am now arguing against your own made up version. Thats losing ones marbles.
 

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