I'm not informed enough to prefer Sonsie or Chesser in that role, but would be happy with any of them at that pick.
Western isn't struggling to get a game. He got a debut in his first season and would be way ahead of expectations.
Draft Watcher Smythe's 2021 Draft Thread - Full Phantom with pick swaps post #295
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Western isn't struggling to get a game. He got a debut in his first season and would be way ahead of expectations.
Clubs can always pick. The question is whether you just get picks at the end of the draft, or if higher picks you weren't able to take in due to a lack of list spots can be re-activated.
There was an article written by Twomey on afl.com earlier this year, which has been posted here before, but after a quick search I can’t find it. But it has definitely been posted in the draft board before.
What doesn’t sound right?
If you have 4 available list spots, you can take 4 picks to the draft.
If you want to trade up the draft, you have your current picks and future picks as collateral.
St Kilda should benefit from these rules. If teams can’t trade any excess picks before the pick trading deadline a week before the draft, they’ll lose those picks.
Teams with later picks, say in the 70’s or 80’s, who intend to use those picks at the draft, will see those picks move up the final draft order in to the early to mid 60’s.
This literally gets written about every year on afl.com.
You only have to wait about 2 weeks to see if I’m right or wrong.
If you use multiple picks at the draft to match a bid, the first pick moves up to where the bid is made, the rest of the picks slide to end of the draft.
If there.are still residual points left over on the last pick used, then those residual points might create a new pick in the draft order, where those points fit in.
There is no reactivation of phantom picks. They do not exist anymore.
- Nov 30, 2016
- 3,321
- 6,885
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
Sorry, I understand everything you are saying and agree with it.
The issue I had was the locked out picks you were talking about before the drafts starts.
Lets just say Richmond has their 5 picks in the Top 30 and then 70 and 80 (for arguments sake), and they have five list spots on the senior list going into the draft.
By your comments, I took it that 70 and 80 are automatically removed because they don't have the list space.
As I understand it, this is not the case.
70 and 80 won't end up getting used, and they can't put these picks towards matching any NGA or Father Sons, but say they traded two of their high 20's picks out for a future second rounder, then 70 and 80 would have to become activated later on, as they are taking 5 picks in the draft.
Is this correct?
The issue I had was the locked out picks you were talking about before the drafts starts.
Lets just say Richmond has their 5 picks in the Top 30 and then 70 and 80 (for arguments sake), and they have five list spots on the senior list going into the draft.
By your comments, I took it that 70 and 80 are automatically removed because they don't have the list space.
As I understand it, this is not the case.
70 and 80 won't end up getting used, and they can't put these picks towards matching any NGA or Father Sons, but say they traded two of their high 20's picks out for a future second rounder, then 70 and 80 would have to become activated later on, as they are taking 5 picks in the draft.
Is this correct?
If they do the trade before the draft then they can take those later picks to the draft.
If they do it as a live trade they will get two new picks at the end of the draft. I doubt these picks can be used for bid matching but, as far as I know, this has never been tested.
- Nov 30, 2016
- 3,321
- 6,885
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
Well yes, they become the last two picks of the draft once they move up from their original position after teams commit to NGAs, Father Sons and teams pass on their picks, etc.
For the purposes of matching NGAs and Father Sons, I'm fairly certain that the maximum number of picks you can match with are the number of list spots you have open (i.e. Richmond has 5 in my example above). I don't think that stops teams from trading out picks once the bid is made and trading them back in, but I could be wrong.
However while a team might have five spaces open, they may choose to take three in the draft and push the other two to the rookie draft, or wait for the PPS.
Think must Freo fans would riot If JVR was on the board at 21 and Freo didn’t take him.FINAL PHANTOM WITH PICK SWAP IDEAS, BUT ITS ALSO A FULL DRAFT PHANTOM
I think after a quick double check i have all the picks correct
ROUND 1
1 -- Jason Horne Francis
Hawks trade 5 with future 1st and 2nd to GWS for 2, future 1st and 2nd
2 -- Nick Daicos - Hawks bid - Coll match
3 -- Finn Callaghan
4 -- Josh Gibcus
5 -- Josh Rachele
Wb trade 24 and future 2nd to Port for Future 1st
6 -- Sam Darcy - GWS bid - Wb match
7 -- Mac Andrew
8 -- Jye Amiss - Freo take Amiss here to make sure Rich dont
9 -- Ben Hobbs
10 -
11 -- Josh Ward
12 -- Matt Johnson
13 -- Arlo Draper
14 -- Josh Sinn
15 -
16 -- Nasaiah Wanganeen-Milera
Ess trade future 1st and 3rd to Rich for 17 and future 2nd to grab a big inside mid
17 -
18 -- Sam Butler
Wb trade back in giving Melb Ports future 1st for 19 and a future 4th to sneak in and get a small lively fwd
19 -
20 -
ROUND 2
21 -
22 -
23 -
24 -- Tom Brown
25 -
Geel trade 32 and 34 to Hawks for 26
26 -
27 -- Judson Clarke
28 -
29 -
30 -
31 -
32 -
33 -
34 -
35 -
36 -
37 -
Stk trade future 3rd and both future 4ths to bris for 45 and 64
38 -
39 -
40 -
41 -- Brady Hough
ROUND 3
42 -
43 -
44 -
45 -
46 -
47 -
48 -
49 -
50 -
51 -
52 -
ROUND 4
53 -
54 -
55 -
56 -
57 -
58 -
59 -
60 -
ROUND 5
61 -
62 -
A few clubs with list spots available still so its off to the rookie draft and/or DFA with them and or they wait till preseason signings and/or mid season draft
I personally think freo will trade 19 for something in 20-30 & try to get back into next years draft.
No this is not correct.
In your scenario, if Richmond traded out two picks for a future pick in a draft night trade, and did not receive back any current draft picks back, then they would just get two new picks at the end of the draft.
If another team then matched a bid on an academy or father son kid, with multiple picks, those used up picks would then move behind Richmond’s end of draft picks.
My belief is that any picks that move to the back of the draft do gain the points associated with those picks.
I have tried to get this confirmed, but have yet to receive a reply.
- Mar 26, 2017
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- Richmond
- Other Teams
- GBay-WSox-Bulls-Blackhawks-LSU-UNC
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i agree, but i think it may be traded to maximize it by getting a future pick and something in the 20's, i couldn't work out who to do the deal with in this mock pick swap phantom but i did have them trading it in a previous one.
They shouldn't, but I dont think it has ever come up. Teams with multiple academy players could effectively use points from the same pick twice. St Kilda may get to do that this year, would be interesting to see what happens.
I don’t believe the afl envisaged shorter drafts, when they first introduced the rule.
While some VIC teams get to benefit from such a thing happening, I believe the afl won’t rule against it.
Once the Vic teams lose any such benefit, and it disproportionately favours the northern clubs, then I expect the afl to “rectify” such blatant double dipping.
Who does Gil support again?
It should favour teams with lots of academy or fs players, which isn't normally Vic teams.
Another way of rorting it could be a team with lots of list vacancies trading the last few picks of the draft multiple times to help other teams match. They would keep reappearing like a magic pudding. They could even increase in value as other picks disappear.
There might be a team next year with 3 father son and academy kids that will need to be matched.
Yeah, I’ve already mentioned this on our board months ago, in relation to next year’s draft.
- Nov 30, 2016
- 3,321
- 6,885
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
Whether 70 or 80 move forward, or whether they go to the end of the draft, its all semantics from my end.
Thanks for answering - I think we are both on the same page.
- Nov 30, 2016
- 3,321
- 6,885
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
That was in my hypothetical. Replace it with whatever picks they would have in the fifth and sixth round if they had the list spots.
- Aug 16, 2010
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We have 2 rated top 20 In Ashcroft and Fletcher who’s the 3rd?There might be a team next year with 3 father son and academy kids that will need to be matched.
Yeah, I’ve already mentioned this on our board months ago, in relation to next year’s draft.
i think he means MacMillian a midfielder who looked good for Queensland this year as a later pick.
- Mar 26, 2017
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- Other Teams
- GBay-WSox-Bulls-Blackhawks-LSU-UNC
- Thread starter
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We as draft watchers, and the draft experts, watch many games each week with a plethora of information and note taking going on all year and then comb the footage of other games and re-watch, and re-watch, to get an insight to most if not all players eligible in the draft all year long, not to mention also their underage year/s as well.
I made a list of my favourites at different stages of the year and they were ones that i kept a keen eye on.
In no particular order, here are the lists of players i was keeping a very close eye on at different stages of the year with my favourites (at that time) in bold
Start Of Jan 2021
Arlo Draper
Ben Hobbs
Nick Daicos
Josh Rachele
Josh Sinn
Noah MacFadyen - Chose cricket over afl
Jason Horne-Francis
Cooper Murley
Matt Johnson
Charlie Molan
Jacob Van Rooyen
Matt Roberts
Josh Gibcus
Early On In The Year
Zac Taylor
Nasaiah Wanganeen-Milera
Arlo Draper
Neil Erasmus
Cooper Murley
Campbell Chesser
Lewis Rayson
Josh Fahey
Hugh Stagg
Ned Long
Mid Year
Zac Taylor
Nasaih Wanganeen-Milera
Jacob Van Rooyen
Neil Erasmus
Campbell Chesser
Mitch Owens
Mitch Knevitt
Lewis Rayson
Ben Hobbs
Ronald Fejo Jnr
End Of The Year
Zac Taylor
Nasaiah Wanganeen-Milera
Ben Hobbs
Josh Ward
Matt Johnson
Jye Amiss
Lewis Rayson
Mitch Owens
Angus Sheldrick
Ronald Fejo Jnr
Zac Taylor, alongside Nasaiah Wanganeen-Milera, have been my two favourites for the year, with Ben Hobbs, Mitch Owens and Ronald Fejo Jnr next in line.
After the start of the year it was clear that JHF and Gibcus were going to be in the top picks of the draft so i concentrated more on those who could rise up the ranks with their game style and skills also taking into consideration their team play and disposal.
I was in talks with Knightmare early on in the year about Hugh Stagg and his game play and we were both keen to watch him a bit more closely.
As the year went on i was also enamored with the game style, game play, disposal and all round skills and evasiveness of Ronald Fejo Jnr and although he is not near the top end of the draft he was and still is one of my favorites to watch.
Zac Taylor and Nasaiah Wanganeen-Milera really have not put a foot wrong all year and their ball use and disposal skills (along with Ronald Fejo Jnr’s)are arguably second to none.
Mitch Owens shapes as an intriguing prospect given his ability to be a powerful bullocking 3rd tall fwd type and shows the same style of play in the middle. He, given the opportunity to flourish in the right full time environment, could end up playing a similar role and in a similar vein to someone like Cam Rayner.
Ben Hobbs is someone who you always get what you expect and the gap between his best and worst games is the slimmest in the draft pool, his potential will be reached by his body growth and engine build up, more-so than skill development, which will make his skills and ball winning ability and clearance winning ability shine through.
I made a list of my favourites at different stages of the year and they were ones that i kept a keen eye on.
In no particular order, here are the lists of players i was keeping a very close eye on at different stages of the year with my favourites (at that time) in bold
Start Of Jan 2021
Arlo Draper
Ben Hobbs
Nick Daicos
Josh Rachele
Josh Sinn
Noah MacFadyen - Chose cricket over afl
Jason Horne-Francis
Cooper Murley
Matt Johnson
Charlie Molan
Jacob Van Rooyen
Matt Roberts
Josh Gibcus
Early On In The Year
Zac Taylor
Nasaiah Wanganeen-Milera
Arlo Draper
Neil Erasmus
Cooper Murley
Campbell Chesser
Lewis Rayson
Josh Fahey
Hugh Stagg
Ned Long
Mid Year
Zac Taylor
Nasaih Wanganeen-Milera
Jacob Van Rooyen
Neil Erasmus
Campbell Chesser
Mitch Owens
Mitch Knevitt
Lewis Rayson
Ben Hobbs
Ronald Fejo Jnr
End Of The Year
Zac Taylor
Nasaiah Wanganeen-Milera
Ben Hobbs
Josh Ward
Matt Johnson
Jye Amiss
Lewis Rayson
Mitch Owens
Angus Sheldrick
Ronald Fejo Jnr
Zac Taylor, alongside Nasaiah Wanganeen-Milera, have been my two favourites for the year, with Ben Hobbs, Mitch Owens and Ronald Fejo Jnr next in line.
After the start of the year it was clear that JHF and Gibcus were going to be in the top picks of the draft so i concentrated more on those who could rise up the ranks with their game style and skills also taking into consideration their team play and disposal.
I was in talks with Knightmare early on in the year about Hugh Stagg and his game play and we were both keen to watch him a bit more closely.
As the year went on i was also enamored with the game style, game play, disposal and all round skills and evasiveness of Ronald Fejo Jnr and although he is not near the top end of the draft he was and still is one of my favorites to watch.
Zac Taylor and Nasaiah Wanganeen-Milera really have not put a foot wrong all year and their ball use and disposal skills (along with Ronald Fejo Jnr’s)are arguably second to none.
Mitch Owens shapes as an intriguing prospect given his ability to be a powerful bullocking 3rd tall fwd type and shows the same style of play in the middle. He, given the opportunity to flourish in the right full time environment, could end up playing a similar role and in a similar vein to someone like Cam Rayner.
Ben Hobbs is someone who you always get what you expect and the gap between his best and worst games is the slimmest in the draft pool, his potential will be reached by his body growth and engine build up, more-so than skill development, which will make his skills and ball winning ability and clearance winning ability shine through.
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