Roast Some Experts don't even have Grundy in their Top 10 Best Players in the AFL

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sr36

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#29
Who cares? Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. And those 3 are as much an expert as anyone on these forums.
Woooooahhhhh there.

Those 3 may get things wrong a bit, but with their incredibly vast experiences in and around the game and access to knowledge well out of reach of the average bigfooty scribbler. To suggest that they are no more expert than anyone else on these forums is going way way way too far.
 
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#32
I think that's entirely reasonable, being in the 10-20 best players in the league is still amazing. He didn't do a lot in the Grand Final which has to impact his rating
Grundy broke the record for hitouts in a grand final and hit outs to advantage, so technically he had the best performance by a ruck man in a grand final since 1999(that's when champions data started)
 
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#33
Buckley after the grand final loss: "As a big organisation with an ego we bought too much into what people externally said about us, good, bad or indifferent. We have taken the first tentative steps this season into moving beyond that."

Who cares what the media says? Half these clowns only have a job because of our great club. When it comes to Collingwood it's always exaggerated because they know it will generate the most clicks. The true rating of our players is within the four walls of the Holden Centre.
 

mike123

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#34
Spot on.

Ask the “experts” ask non Collingwood people who is better, Cyril Rioli or Peter Daicos?

Cyril great player in great teams is nnot superior than Daicos.

But they’ll dribble all over Cyril.

Daicos was better (far better).
Most neutrals I’ve met recognise Daicos as one of the best, a true great and in a league of his own compared to Cyril.
 
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#35
Most neutrals I’ve met recognise Daicos as one of the best, a true great and in a league of his own compared to Cyril.
I need to meet those people.
That’s good to hear.

I’ve always felt even Daicos is not quite appreciated enough.

He is the greatest ever miracle goal kicker. Took it to a whole different level.
 
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#36
Is the Clayton Oliver thing a meme I missed or something? Surely even the staunchest Melbourne fan (e.g. Garry Lyon) can't say he is one of the top 10 players in the league with a straight face?
 

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jonbe54

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#37
I need to meet those people.
That’s good to hear.

I’ve always felt even Daicos is not quite appreciated enough.

He is the greatest ever miracle goal kicker. Took it to a whole different level.
You should have stood in the outer at dear old Vic Park in the teeming rain and watch him tear the best centremen in the business to shreds early in his career Saintly - OMFG what a player he was as a centreman.
 

sr36

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#39
Most neutrals I’ve met recognise Daicos as one of the best, a true great and in a league of his own compared to Cyril.
I rate Cyril much higher than many on this board.

Both greats of their respective eras who have had a significant impact on the evolution of the game.

Daicos was infinitely more skillful and raised the bar in terms of what was possible.

Cyril raised the bar in terms of forwards offering a complete package. Cyril was brilliant offensively and defensively and created an expectation that skillful forwards need to work just as hard defensively as they do offensively. (cutegirlwhycan'twehaveboth.meme) It's no longer good enough to just be brilliant offensively. The short era of playing a defensive forward, who didn't offer much of a threat is also gone. They're expected to be the complete package nowadays.

I'd prefer Daicos for his era, as forwards didn't need to be so defensively minded because goals weren't often launched from the back pocket and back pockets tended to just smash it out of the danger zone - regardless of whether they were being chased or not.

But, I'd give the nod to Cyril for the modern game, where two-way running is so crucial.
 
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#40
I rate Cyril much higher than many on this board.

Both greats of their respective eras who have had a significant impact on the evolution of the game.

Daicos was infinitely more skillful and raised the bar in terms of what was possible.

Cyril raised the bar in terms of forwards offering a complete package. Cyril was brilliant offensively and defensively and created an expectation that skillful forwards need to work just as hard defensively as they do offensively. (cutegirlwhycan'twehaveboth.meme) It's no longer good enough to just be brilliant offensively. The short era of playing a defensive forward, who didn't offer much of a threat is also gone. They're expected to be the complete package nowadays.

I'd prefer Daicos for his era, as forwards didn't need to be so defensively minded because goals weren't often launched from the back pocket and back pockets tended to just smash it out of the danger zone - regardless of whether they were being chased or not.

But, I'd give the nod to Cyril for the modern game, where two-way running is so crucial.
So faced with the choice for 150 games, both fully fit and primed, you’d take Cyril?

I’d take Daicos. His numbers are superior.
 

sr36

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#41
So faced with the choice for 150 games, both fully fit and primed, you’d take Cyril?

I’d take Daicos. His numbers are superior.
My strongest memories of Daicos were second half of his career, where he was an incredible freakshow of amazing forward brilliance, but couldn't really run without a litre of cortisone. So for the modern game where hard two-way running is so crucial, I'd take Cyril.
 

jonbe54

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#42
Yes he was an amazing centreman.
Great memories.
The problem I - and I imagine many on these boards and elsewhere have/had with Cyril was simply . . . Bruce.

What an absolute and utter flog.

Cyril as a player was amazing, but - for me - the spectacle was always spoiled by his outrageous commentary. Simply embarrassing for a supposed commentator.
 
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#43
The problem I - and I imagine many on these boards and elsewhere have/had with Cyril was simply . . . Bruce.

What an absolute and utter flog.

Cyril as a player was amazing, but - for me - the spectacle was always spoiled by his outrageous commentary. Simply embarrassing for a supposed commentator.
I think the Bruce h... erotic thing was way to creepy.

Bruce really has become a caricature of himself.

He’s worse when your team is losing. But he was bad bad bad during the prelim.
Oh boy, oh boy. The whole Cox thing.
He came at it way too quickly and didn’t relent all night.
 

jonbe54

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#44
My strongest memories of Daicos were second half of his career, where he was an incredible freakshow of amazing forward brilliance, but couldn't really run without a litre of cortisone. So for the modern game where hard two-way running is so crucial, I'd take Cyril.
I watched his career from his first appearance for the Pies and as a centreman he was even more of a freak show than as a forward. I've looked at the oppo coaches boxes halfway through the first quarter and seen them tearing their hair out by the roots trying to comprehend how he did what he did.

There are well founded tales of highly regarded centremen just standing rooted to the spot with jaws on the ground, totally awestruck at his sublime footwork and poise.

As a centreman he would have been an even more widely noted all time great than he is.

My final word on the matter was when standing in the outer and seeing Peter heading for the ball the entire crowd would figuratively hold their breath - once he had it the opposition fans exhaled in groaning despair but we Pies fans simply and quietly half whispered . . . DAICOS!!!

Simply sublime.
 

Kirby

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#45
If you weren't there at the games in those days it's hard to explain just how amazing it was to have the ball come into his vicinity and the whole Collingwood crowd in that loud whisper of excitement yell......DAICOS!!!

Of course, more often than not he would out point his opponent, side step two more, then smash one through the big sticks from the boundary. Freak!
 

sr36

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#46
I watched his career from his first appearance for the Pies and as a centreman he was even more of a freak show than as a forward. I've looked at the oppo coaches boxes halfway through the first quarter and seen them tearing their hair out by the roots trying to comprehend how he did what he did.

There are well founded tales of highly regarded centremen just standing rooted to the spot with jaws on the ground, totally awestruck at his sublime footwork and poise.

As a centreman he would have been an even more widely noted all time great than he is.

My final word on the matter was when standing in the outer and seeing Peter heading for the ball the entire crowd would figuratively hold their breath - once he had it the opposition fans exhaled in groaning despair but we Pies fans simply and quietly half whispered . . . DAICOS!!!

Simply sublime.
I would love to have those memories. My memories of a fully fit Peter Daicos the midfielder are sketchy.

God, he was an incredible, mesmerising forward though. I remember watching a Pies game at Whitten oval one day, with a girl I was really keen on. I was keen enough that I wasn't paying that much attention to the footy, but still saw every Daicos involvement. The sheer sense of anticipation in the crowd drew my attention back to the footy whenever the ball went anywhere near him.
 
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#47
I would love to have those memories. My memories of a fully fit Peter Daicos the midfielder are sketchy.

God, he was an incredible, mesmerising forward though. I remember watching a Pies game at Whitten oval one day, with a girl I was really keen on. I was keen enough that I wasn't paying that much attention to the footy, but still saw every Daicos involvement. The sheer sense of anticipation in the crowd drew my attention back to the footy whenever the ball went anywhere near him.
What Peter also had was the innate ability to kick a goal from anywhere left side, right side.

Close up, or huge distance he so it all.

He kicked on his left at times youd swear he was a left footer.

Kicked goals from 60m and from all angles.

Kicked 97 in our flag year of 1990.

And as good as Cyril is, he just didn’t have ALL the attributes of Daicos.

Cyril had the force and dynamic but in burst play at times. Brilliant tackler that’s his weapon.

Daicos had it all.
 
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jonbe54

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#48
It was a great shame injuries robbed the game of probably it's most famous centreman ever. But we would not have seen those unbelievable goals - I remember most the one against West Coast when on the boundary in the forward pocket he is being pulled of his feet away from the goals but calmly put it on his boot and kicked the sausage.
 

sr36

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#49
What Peter also had was the inane ability to kick a goal from anywhere left side, right side.

Close up, or huge distance he so it all.

He kicked on his left at times youd swear he was a left footer.

Kicked goals from 60m and from all angles.

Kicked 97 in our flag year of 1990.

And as good as Cyril is, he just didn’t have ALL the attributes of Daicos.

Cyril had the force and dynamic but in burst play at times. Brilliant tackler that’s his weapon.

Daicos had it all.
As a forward, one of the often forgotten areas of Daicos brilliance was his reading of the ball flight and body work to protect the drop zone. All those wonderful one handed chest marks.

But overall, I still say:
Massive gulf one way offensively. But massive gulf the other way defensively.
The latter is partially to do with the era and injuries, but it's also to do with physical strengths/limitations.
Daicos for his era.
Cyril for his era.
Both champions.
What's happening.
Channeling Darkyprotector
Must stop
 

jonbe54

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#50
As a forward, one of the often forgotten areas of Daicos brilliance was his reading of the ball flight and body work to protect the drop zone. All those wonderful one handed chest marks.

But overall, I still say:
Massive gulf one way offensively. But massive gulf the other way defensively.
The latter is partially to do with the era and injuries, but it's also to do with physical strengths/limitations.
Daicos for his era.
Cyril for his era.
Both champions.
What's happening.
Channeling Darkyprotector
Must stop
He wasn't too bad flying for them either if he could get the drop on his opponents - not a shade on the best mark of all at the club though - John Greening was simply jaw dropping.
 
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