With no Sicily7 goals v Hawthorn is a disaster
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With no Sicily7 goals v Hawthorn is a disaster
I'm saying if we were Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Richmond or Hawthorn, in comparable circumstances (eg: we made finals last year), we would've been scheduled to play Geelong at the MCG instead of Kardinia Park. And would've played Hawthorn at the MCG instead of York Park. Instead of 2 nail biting losses we'd have 2 wins. Hence 5-4 instead of 3-6.What.
You're in denial
It’s 1870 not 1901, doesnt shock me your math isn’t great. It’s about as relevant as your ridiculous stadium bullshit.What's the relevance of 1901 to this? Get outta here with that superstitious thinking
Collingwood are 8th not 10th
We basically have won most games against lower teams (until yesterday) and lost to top teams. That's what middle teams usually do.
Yeah, nah.
No we're not good. Not right now
But we're not a bottom 4 team either. We'll probably finish 10th-12th.
Oh dear, you missed why I was referencing 1901.It’s 1870 not 1901, doesnt shock me your math isn’t great.
yeah cos teams 50 points up on their home ground playing 16th have ever lostCollingwood is 10th right now cause that games still going,
Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.
Don't understand the logic of the ultra defensive game plan. Not only is it dull, it's simply not effectiveWas at the game yesterday and must have been a tough watch on TV.
Simply cannot get over the St.Kilda game plan against a bottom 3 team without a FF, CHF, CHB...it was staggering.
A few of the saints fans among us where anti Ross Lyon b4 the game and they wanted blood after the game, one bloke wants Josh Carr in by Monday morning.
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my biased views as to why the saints cannot contest
1) bad game plan.
The hyper defensive game plan that is Ross' bread and butter simply just is not one that can last in the current game, especially if you don't have the tools to back it up in every part of the game. While I will concede that they have a pretty good defensive core (Battle, Sinclair and Wanganeen-Milera especially), the plan falls apart everywhere else on the ground. Having no real consistent offensive pressure to back up the suffocating game plan really limits it's effectiveness.
2) over reliance on Rowan Marshall
Don't get me wrong, he's a fantastic player and likely one of the best ruckman in the competition, but if he goes down with injury, there is no one of even half the quality in that list who can replace him. His ability both in the middle and around the ground is what masks some of the limited ability that the club otherwise has, and their back up(s) Campbell and Hayes, both have provided very little of note when they have played, both generally and directly in comparison to Marshall.
3) lacking forward line
Going along with the bad game plan, the overall forward line is particularly unintimidating. Max King has looked listless this season, struggling to take a mark and kick the ball straight, Tim Membery has been marginally better, Jack Higgins before getting rubbed out was the same, but the rest have lacked any significant impact that would make any team worry.
4) subpar midfield.
If you compare the saint's midfield to any of the top 10 teams, you'd see it being littered with stars who can punish teams both on the board and around the ground, but I can't think of anyone except maybe Brad Hill who'll sneak forward and grab a sneaky goal or two.
5) failing to kick a winning score
Except against a club of VFL players, I can't think of any game that they've kicked a winning score with. You let clubs stay in the contest and get in front. The one that comes to mind most was the loss vs Essendon. You lead for most of the day but couldn't put us away. I'm sure it's happened a ton since Ross returned to the club.
there's probably more but i don't think anything else would be constructive. He is a blight, remove Ross from the club, please
Yes I’m the irrational embarassing one here.Oh dear, you missed why I was referencing 1901.
Not sure what 1870 is either.
yeah cos teams 50 points up on their home ground playing 16th have ever lost
Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself with the PP- pedantic pessimism. I'm out. I'll continue conversing with those who are interested in a rational discussion.
Amazing being 15 up at 3/4 time, kicking 4 behinds in the last quarter and still winning with no bad weather or injuries to blame.Don't understand the logic of the ultra defensive game plan. Not only is it dull, it's simply not effective
Also how many times have you had to travel the breadth of this big brown land since round 1 ?I'm saying if we were Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Richmond or Hawthorn, in comparable circumstances (eg: we made finals last year), we would've been scheduled to play Geelong at the MCG instead of Kardinia Park. And would've played Hawthorn at the MCG instead of York Park. Instead of 2 nail biting losses we'd have 2 wins. Hence 5-4 instead of 3-6.
I don't think travel is a big factor.Also how many times have you had to travel the breadth of this big brown land since round 1 ?
You might get shafted compared with Collingwood and Carlton but you do ok against the interstate teams
YesIF we finish bottom 4 can we get out of no-mans land?
Saints kick a lot of behinds. Does anyone have the stats on where they are taking their shots from?
Seems like Lyon's stodgy game plan means they take their shots under a heap of pressure in a contested scenario.
Re point 1 - we have one game at Marvel this year. One. You play at Marvel thirteen times. In terms of being used to the ground, 13 times versus 1 is a pretty tremendous difference, and Marvel does have its own little quirks to get used to. So I don't see how your comparison with GMHBA is all that different. You play at our home once; we play at your home once this year. Last year it was twice. Not much of a difference. We don't usually play many other sides at Marvel, just you and sometimes the Dogs.You're correct but only in a trivial, inconsequential sense
I don't consider Marvel to be anyone's home ground in a true, relevant sense. Not in the same way that, say, KP is Geelong's home ground or the Gabba is Brisbane's home ground.
1. Because 5 or 6 teams host games at Marvel, every single AFL team plays there multiple times a year. Historically Geelong played there 4 or 5 times a year. (In recent years it's decreased because Carlton and Essendon have shifted to hosting Geelong at the MCG. St Kilda is now hosting an MCG game every year too, although probably won't ever host Geelong there).
When St Kilda plays in Geelong, it's a once- every-two- years event. When Geelong comes to Marvel, they're playing a venue most of their players have played at 10 or 15 times. And historically that would've been 20 or 25 times.
But more importantly...
2. "Home" advantage is more about crowd than anything else. The covid era demonstrated this empirically. With half of Geelong's fan base living in Melbourne, if St Kilda hosts Geelong at Marvel, there's 20-25K St Kilda fans and 10-15k Geelong fans in attendance. Minimal advantage when both teams have strong support.
This is the same reason say, North, St Kilda or the Dogs don't have a meaningful advantage when hosting Collingwood etc at Marvel.
In my view St Kilda has their first genuine, meaningful "home" game next week- in round 10. We'll have overwhelming crowd support for the first time. Covid era demonstrated that is the key factor in home advantage.
Do you think he knows how to coach a team to play more attacking footy? 338 games coached - the second longest serving coach in the comp - and never shown a capability or a willingness to balance offense and defence differently. He's made two GFs and been up the ladder a few times. Only time a side of his was in the top 4 for scoring was the Saints in '09. Most of the rest of the time they haven't even been top 8. They've performed strongly based on defensive work, but that inability to score always finds them out in finals.Lyon seems to be making it pretty clear he wants more goals of late.
Ok let's look at some dataRe point 1 - we have one game at Marvel this year. One. You play at Marvel thirteen times. In terms of being used to the ground, 13 times versus 1 is a pretty tremendous difference, and Marvel does have its own little quirks to get used to.
Except crowd is a huge factor influencing home advantage in sport.Re point 2 - the crowd isn't an excuse and something you have to suck up.
That's what St Kilda faces too, we hosted Collingwood at the G this year. Crowd seemed probably 50/50 but mightve sounded different if Saints hadn't been winning.A few rounds ago I went to watch Geelong v Carlton and the 'G. It was Geelong's home game, but Carlton has more supporters in Melbourne and there were evidently more of them there, or at least they were much louder, because there was far more noise coming in favour of Carlton and against Geelong.
not true- Carlton, Essendon, Hawthorn, Dogs, North, GWS all split their home games across two venues.Geelong has fewer home games than any other side has at its home ground venue, because we also have some at the 'G.
No the AFL have decided we don’t have to play them this year as it’s unfair on fansI thought Ross would come back after time in the media thinking he would never coach again a changed man, but he's worse than ever. I remember a game last year where The Saints got 4 goals up against North Melbourne and he went ultra defensive to "protect the lead." If you can't back your team to carry on belting North with a 4 goal lead what's the point
Have the saints played NM this year yet? If they do and Ross goes the full flood as soon as they are 20 points up its time to abandon ship and find a new coach