With no Sicily
Roast St Kilda in no mans land
- Thread starter The Nostradamus
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I'm saying if we were Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Richmond or Hawthorn, in comparable circumstances (eg: we made finals last year), we would've been scheduled to play Geelong at the MCG instead of Kardinia Park. And would've played Hawthorn at the MCG instead of York Park. Instead of 2 nail biting losses we'd have 2 wins. Hence 5-4 instead of 3-6.
- Sep 25, 2013
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No need. He was sacked at Carlton over a decade ago and we have since moved on.
Unfortunately for you you are living through it now.
phantom13
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It’s 1870 not 1901, doesnt shock me your math isn’t great. It’s about as relevant as your ridiculous stadium bullshit.
Collingwood is 10th right now cause that games still going, they’ll be 8th but we got them in round 2 when they were still recovering from winning a flag.
We probably will finish 10-12 which means we don’t get top 5 (possibly 10) draft picks and likely stay a middling irrelevant team. But. The your original point, we absolutely could finish bottom 4 based of losing to a bottom 4 team yesterday.
Oh dear, you missed why I was referencing 1901.
Not sure what 1870 is either.
yeah cos teams 50 points up on their home ground playing 16th have ever lost
Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself with the PP- pedantic pessimism. I'm out. I'll continue conversing with those who are interested in a rational discussion.
You're embarassing yourself miles more than anyone else you're pretending to are. Wake up.
Don't understand the logic of the ultra defensive game plan. Not only is it dull, it's simply not effective
mcgrath_truther
AAAAAAAAAAARGH!
my biased views as to why the saints cannot contest
1) bad game plan.
The hyper defensive game plan that is Ross' bread and butter simply just is not one that can last in the current game, especially if you don't have the tools to back it up in every part of the game. While I will concede that they have a pretty good defensive core (Battle, Sinclair and Wanganeen-Milera especially), the plan falls apart everywhere else on the ground. Having no real consistent offensive pressure to back up the suffocating game plan really limits it's effectiveness.
2) over reliance on Rowan Marshall
Don't get me wrong, he's a fantastic player and likely one of the best ruckman in the competition, but if he goes down with injury, there is no one of even half the quality in that list who can replace him. His ability both in the middle and around the ground is what masks some of the limited ability that the club otherwise has, and their back up(s) Campbell and Hayes, both have provided very little of note when they have played, both generally and directly in comparison to Marshall.
3) lacking forward line
Going along with the bad game plan, the overall forward line is particularly unintimidating. Max King has looked listless this season, struggling to take a mark and kick the ball straight, Tim Membery has been marginally better, Jack Higgins before getting rubbed out was the same, but the rest have lacked any significant impact that would make any team worry.
4) subpar midfield.
If you compare the saint's midfield to any of the top 10 teams, you'd see it being littered with stars who can punish teams both on the board and around the ground, but I can't think of anyone except maybe Brad Hill who'll sneak forward and grab a sneaky goal or two.
5) failing to kick a winning score
Except against a club of VFL players, I can't think of any game that they've kicked a winning score with. You let clubs stay in the contest and get in front. The one that comes to mind most was the loss vs Essendon. You lead for most of the day but couldn't put us away. I'm sure it's happened a ton since Ross returned to the club.
there's probably more but i don't think anything else would be constructive. He is a blight, remove Ross from the club, please
1) bad game plan.
The hyper defensive game plan that is Ross' bread and butter simply just is not one that can last in the current game, especially if you don't have the tools to back it up in every part of the game. While I will concede that they have a pretty good defensive core (Battle, Sinclair and Wanganeen-Milera especially), the plan falls apart everywhere else on the ground. Having no real consistent offensive pressure to back up the suffocating game plan really limits it's effectiveness.
2) over reliance on Rowan Marshall
Don't get me wrong, he's a fantastic player and likely one of the best ruckman in the competition, but if he goes down with injury, there is no one of even half the quality in that list who can replace him. His ability both in the middle and around the ground is what masks some of the limited ability that the club otherwise has, and their back up(s) Campbell and Hayes, both have provided very little of note when they have played, both generally and directly in comparison to Marshall.
3) lacking forward line
Going along with the bad game plan, the overall forward line is particularly unintimidating. Max King has looked listless this season, struggling to take a mark and kick the ball straight, Tim Membery has been marginally better, Jack Higgins before getting rubbed out was the same, but the rest have lacked any significant impact that would make any team worry.
4) subpar midfield.
If you compare the saint's midfield to any of the top 10 teams, you'd see it being littered with stars who can punish teams both on the board and around the ground, but I can't think of anyone except maybe Brad Hill who'll sneak forward and grab a sneaky goal or two.
5) failing to kick a winning score
Except against a club of VFL players, I can't think of any game that they've kicked a winning score with. You let clubs stay in the contest and get in front. The one that comes to mind most was the loss vs Essendon. You lead for most of the day but couldn't put us away. I'm sure it's happened a ton since Ross returned to the club.
there's probably more but i don't think anything else would be constructive. He is a blight, remove Ross from the club, please
Ross isn’t going anywhere.
He and his mates have the keys to the club … period !!
phantom13
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Yes I’m the irrational embarassing one here.Oh dear, you missed why I was referencing 1901.
Not sure what 1870 is either.
yeah cos teams 50 points up on their home ground playing 16th have ever lost
Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself with the PP- pedantic pessimism. I'm out. I'll continue conversing with those who are interested in a rational discussion.
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Amazing being 15 up at 3/4 time, kicking 4 behinds in the last quarter and still winning with no bad weather or injuries to blame.
On SM-S918B using BigFooty.com mobile app
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Also how many times have you had to travel the breadth of this big brown land since round 1 ?
You might get shafted compared with Collingwood and Carlton but you do ok against the interstate teams
- Apr 26, 2011
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I want to see ross do well and Liam Henry lose.
Such a conundrum
Such a conundrum
I don't think travel is a big factor.Also how many times have you had to travel the breadth of this big brown land since round 1 ?
You might get shafted compared with Collingwood and Carlton but you do ok against the interstate teams
NBA and NHL teams travel multiple times a week. So can Euro soccer teams.
I don't buy the complaints from AFL fans whose sides travel every 2 or 3 weeks.
- Nov 14, 2010
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Saints kick a lot of behinds. Does anyone have the stats on where they are taking their shots from?
Seems like Lyon's stodgy game plan means they take their shots under a heap of pressure in a contested scenario.
Seems like Lyon's stodgy game plan means they take their shots under a heap of pressure in a contested scenario.
Lyon seems to be making it pretty clear he wants more goals of late.
So it would appear he's just not capable of it.
Also we're shit so why would we kick goals.. But there is a ray of hope with some of the young guys
To answer your question, we are not getting easy looks but I don't have the stats
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Re point 1 - we have one game at Marvel this year. One. You play at Marvel thirteen times. In terms of being used to the ground, 13 times versus 1 is a pretty tremendous difference, and Marvel does have its own little quirks to get used to. So I don't see how your comparison with GMHBA is all that different. You play at our home once; we play at your home once this year. Last year it was twice. Not much of a difference. We don't usually play many other sides at Marvel, just you and sometimes the Dogs.
Re point 2 - the crowd isn't an excuse and something you have to suck up. A few rounds ago I went to watch Geelong v Carlton and the 'G. It was Geelong's home game, but Carlton has more supporters in Melbourne and there were evidently more of them there, or at least they were much louder, because there was far more noise coming in favour of Carlton and against Geelong.
Geelong has fewer home games than any other side has at its home ground venue, because we also have some at the 'G. That's not a bad thing so to speak as it is good to get MCG exposure and more convenient for the significant Melbourne-based contingent of supporters, but we have to concede that if we're playing Collingwood there, or a Carlton or Richmond (when they're doing okay), we'll get drowned out even if it's our home ground.
Do you think he knows how to coach a team to play more attacking footy? 338 games coached - the second longest serving coach in the comp - and never shown a capability or a willingness to balance offense and defence differently. He's made two GFs and been up the ladder a few times. Only time a side of his was in the top 4 for scoring was the Saints in '09. Most of the rest of the time they haven't even been top 8. They've performed strongly based on defensive work, but that inability to score always finds them out in finals.
I used to think he was just stubborn and steadfast in his commitment to his dour gameplan, thinking it would guarantee him success at some point, and for a while it was hard to argue it was effective. He had a gnack of making established but under-performing sides stronger with his coaching, getting both Saints and Freo to a GF soon after coming in, and even though they didn't make another GF Freo were pretty hard to play against for a few years there.
But now I'm more of the belief that he can't do any different because it stopped working at Freo and it hasn't worked in his return to the Saints. And when Ross Lyon football turns bad, supporters are left not just watching their side lose but put in horribly boring efforts, seemingly afraid of taking the game on at all while being overly focused on shutting the opposition down.
BigPond101
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I thought Ross would come back after time in the media thinking he would never coach again a changed man, but he's worse than ever. I remember a game last year where The Saints got 4 goals up against North Melbourne and he went ultra defensive to "protect the lead." If you can't back your team to carry on belting North with a 4 goal lead what's the point
Have the saints played NM this year yet? If they do and Ross goes the full flood as soon as they are 20 points up its time to abandon ship and find a new coach
Have the saints played NM this year yet? If they do and Ross goes the full flood as soon as they are 20 points up its time to abandon ship and find a new coach
Ok let's look at some data
Hawkins - 48 career games at Docklands
Dangerfield - 37
Duncan - 33
C Guthrie - 28
Etc
How many games have senior Saints played at Kardinia Park?
Ross- 6
Hill- 5
Sinclair - 4
Etc
Massive discrepancy. Geelong players way more familiar with StKildas's home ground than vice versa. When you add in the fact that Geelong's ground is a unique shape and Marvel is more standard that discrepancy only grows.
Except crowd is a huge factor influencing home advantage in sport.
Many studies show this using covid data.
That's what St Kilda faces too, we hosted Collingwood at the G this year. Crowd seemed probably 50/50 but mightve sounded different if Saints hadn't been winning.
And unlike Geelong we barely get any games where the crowd is 80-90% in our favour. About 5 a year. Geelong gets 9. That's a nice advantage.
not true- Carlton, Essendon, Hawthorn, Dogs, North, GWS all split their home games across two venues.
And as I mentioned previously, half, if not most, of Geelong's fan base lives in Melbourne. I know loads of Geelong supporters. If Geelong has 25,000 people at the game and most of them are members sitting near the play, but Carlton or Collingwood have 45,000 and they're a bit louder, hardly a huge disadvantage. I'd call that fairly neutral.
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No the AFL have decided we don’t have to play them this year as it’s unfair on fans
Fck me if you’re gonna have a go at least have a clue
Saints can make as many excuses and use all the mental gymnastics they like, but if you cant score 10 goals against Hawthorn on a sunny windless day then you are absolutely ****ed.
The problem is the kicking around and around the boundary game plan. Its outdated and shit. Gives the fwds no chance.
Saints game is high effort and no reward and the players are burnt out. Superior fitness isnt working. Its all so inefficient.
Saints fans can talking about "close losses" but this is Lyons trademark.
8.10 to 7.11 is a classic Lyon scorecard. Its always about his "close losses" and he wont change. He refuses to change.
The problem is the kicking around and around the boundary game plan. Its outdated and shit. Gives the fwds no chance.
Saints game is high effort and no reward and the players are burnt out. Superior fitness isnt working. Its all so inefficient.
Saints fans can talking about "close losses" but this is Lyons trademark.
8.10 to 7.11 is a classic Lyon scorecard. Its always about his "close losses" and he wont change. He refuses to change.
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