Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[littlecreatures]

You can discount it when it makes sense. You're trying to argue a point that St Kilda has more fan engagement than Sydney but then using a metric heavily influenced by your opposition in games. We all know St Kilda has poor fan engagement in the scheme of things. So we're not really "discounting" any particular metric, just highlighting that that metric doesn't align with the point you're making in this instance.

As I said, it’s a home ground no different to marquee games held this year by Collingwood for example, or even homes games at the G between teams like Collingwood, Melbourne, Essendon etc. That in itself shows we’re just plucking this when it’s convenient.

The point was that St Kilda has a higher home crowd attendance than Sydney, and the criticism directed in this respect is hypocritical/ironic, which is valid. That’s been validated by a number of time periods, even if we disregard this cherry picked game.

 

[Dangerousfield]

My wife dictates that I can only watch two or three games each week.

So I always watch the Crows, after that I prioritise the exciting high scoring Saints and never watch the boring star less Swans.

I know Saints supporters are long suffering but to suggest there's more interest in the Saints than the Swans is just idiocy. Don't know anyone who chooses to watch the Saints now (or ever in the past) but right now, after my team, the Swans are the most exciting watch in footy, so many stars with slick ball movement and plenty of goals.

Yes, Saints are in their natural position, No Man's Land

 

[FlowersByIrene]

As I said, it’s a home ground no different to marquee games held this year by Collingwood for example, or even homes games at the G between teams like Collingwood, Melbourne, Essendon etc. That in itself shows we’re just plucking this when it’s convenient.

The point was that St Kilda has a higher home crowd attendance than Sydney, and the criticism directed in this respect is hypocritical/ironic, which is valid. That’s been validated by a number of time periods, even if we disregard this cherry picked game.

The point was not that St Kilda has a higher home crowd, you were saying - what does that crowd say about St Kilda and its 'shitty boring footy' versus Sydney.

So as I said, we're not talking about crowd numbers, we're talking about engagement. The number of Collingwood fans at your game is irrelevant to engagement.

 

[littlecreatures]

The point was not that St Kilda has a higher home crowd, you were saying - what does that crowd say about St Kilda and its 'shitty boring footy' versus Sydney.

So as I said, we're not talking about crowd numbers, we're talking about engagement. The number of Collingwood fans at your game is irrelevant to engagement.

Fans going to a footy game is a pretty clear indicator for engagement, so respectfully disagree mate.

 

[Mat Mann]

Not discounting at all - just saying the average will come down as the season goes on.

Also cant compare footy attendance crowds in Melb v Sydney.

Maybe you can show us the tv viewing data by team? Id like to see that data.

2024 AFL TV Ratings (Opening to Round 6) - Sports Industry AU

On Seven, the AFL has had more than 13.183m viewers for the season, this is down from the 15.061m who watched the first 6 rounds of 2023. Even allowing for gaps in the data (mostly low flying single city broadcasts), there are not enough ratings to come anywhere near this. The highest rating...

www.footyindustry.com

discount Saints/Pies crowd numbers but use Swans/Pies Opening round/opening game TV figures ....

 

[Lance Uppercut]

What is Ross Lyon's obsession with the Essendon game from nearly two months ago?

I've heard him bring it up twice in the last week in different press conferences.

Stop deflecting. You lost.

it's raised my eyebrows too. He really seems to be chopped up by that loss. Feels like they should have won (lol) and can't seem to get over it.

Such a shame

 

[phantom13]

My wife dictates that I can only watch two or three games each week.

So I always watch the Crows, after that I prioritise the exciting high scoring Saints and never watch the boring star less Swans.

I know Saints supporters are long suffering but to suggest there's more interest in the Saints than the Swans is just idiocy. Don't know anyone who chooses to watch the Saints now (or ever in the past) but right now, after my team, the Swans are the most exciting watch in footy, so many stars with slick ball movement and plenty of goals.

Yes, Saints are in their natural position, No Man's Land

Pains me to say but I’m a similar situation and very VERY begrudgingly still watching the saints. We’re ****ing awful to watch.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Fans going to a footy game is a pretty clear indicator for engagement, so respectfully disagree mate.

Sure, St Kilda are a bigger club than Sydney... keep telling yourself that.

 

[WillHayward]

Well this thread has reached peak nuffie territory

 

[littlecreatures]

Sure, St Kilda are a bigger club than Sydney... keep telling yourself that.

Not exactly what I said, but sure, you also keep telling yourself that.

 

[Mat Mann]

Well this thread has reached peak nuffie territory

been there a long time, I mean you are the second-highest poster here

 

[WillHayward]

In 5 from 9 games this season, the Saints have failed to reach the 70 point mark.

If RTB thinks he can win games of footy scoring 65 points every week then he's not the right guy for the job.

 

[Plugger35]

In 5 from 9 games this season, the Saints have failed to reach the 70 point mark.

If RTB thinks he can win games of footy scoring 65 points every week then he's not the right guy for the job.

I think he's fully aware that we need to be scoring more than we are and he isn't happy with how we have been playing recently.

 

[WillHayward]

I think he's fully aware that we need to be scoring more than we are and he isn't happy with how we have been playing recently.

But he's been having these kinds of scores consistently his entire coaching career

He's also using the same boundary line slow movement kick and mark footy.

He's paying lip service to it but unable to fundamentally change his DNA.

 

[SuperMal]

But he's been having these kinds of scores consistently his entire coaching career

He's also using the same boundary line slow movement kick and mark footy.

He's paying lip service to it but unable to fundamentally change his DNA.

I’d be interested to see if the winning scorelines from the drawn GF year support your view.

 

[phantom13]

I’d be interested to see if the winning scorelines from the drawn GF year support your view.

Thought this was a good question so looked myself.

1935 points for at an average of 87, puts us 8th for scoring for the year (noting there was a big discrepancy between the top 8 and the bottom 8 that we bridged, the next highest was 2017 to Sydney and the next lowest was 1930 to North and Essendon).

To extend it a bit further Freo in their GF year were 11th in points for with 2035 at 92.

St.Kilda last year 14th in points for (we finished 6th for the record) with 1775 (Collingwood had 2142) at 77 per game.

St.Kilda this year 14th in points for averaging 74 per game. Worth noting its a pretty historically bad bottom 4 that were JUST sitting above (Hawthorn averaging 70 per game)

 

[SuperMal]

Thought this was a good question so looked myself.

1935 points for at an average of 87, puts us 8th for scoring for the year (noting there was a big discrepancy between the top 8 and the bottom 8 that we bridged, the next highest was 2017 to Sydney and the next lowest was 1930 to North and Essendon).

To extend it a bit further Freo in their GF year were 11th in points for with 2035 at 92.

St.Kilda last year 14th in points for (we finished 6th for the record) with 1775 (Collingwood had 2142) at 77 per game.

St.Kilda this year 14th in points for averaging 74 per game. Worth noting its a pretty historically bad bottom 4 that were JUST sitting above (Hawthorn averaging 70 per game)

So it could be argued that his defensive style has just become a little too predominant - or, just that he had better players back then.

 

[freo1]

My wife dictates that I can only watch two or three games each week.

So I always watch the Crows, after that I prioritise the exciting high scoring Saints and never watch the boring star less Swans.

I know Saints supporters are long suffering but to suggest there's more interest in the Saints than the Swans is just idiocy. Don't know anyone who chooses to watch the Saints now (or ever in the past) but right now, after my team, the Swans are the most exciting watch in footy, so many stars with slick ball movement and plenty of goals.

Yes, Saints are in their natural position, No Man's Land

Does she wear your pants while she dictates?

 

[phantom13]

So it could be argued that his defensive style has just become a little too predominant - or, just that he had better players back then.

2010 also had a few outliers in a massive 100+ point win against north in round 1 or 2.

I dont think anyone is arguing that Ross isnt a pretty dour defense first coach but anyone who is would struggle in the face of the stats.

Finished 3rd (and probably had the best attack in the league with Kozi, Roo, Milne, Schneider) 8th best attack.

Freo finished 3rd, 11th best attack.

Saints in 2023 finished 6th, 14th best attack.

 

[Millky95]

There’s even more variables with fixturing if you’re relying upon tv ratings. I’m clearly not so not sure why I would show you this.

I just think it’s a bit rich here talking about crows and s*** boring footy, and here Sydney are pulling lesser crowds, however way you want to put it.

Let’s also acknowledge Saints have another what 9 Vic teams to compete with when it comes to pulling a strong supporter base, and that’s before we even start scratching the surface of broad competitive advantages.

If we are looking at crowd numbers, I'd rather look at percentage of stadium capacity in terms of "bringing people in". Even if the SCG and Docklands were complete sell outs, Docklands brings in more people by naturally having a larger capacity.

 

[SuperMal]

2010 also had a few outliers in a massive 100+ point win against north in round 1 or 2.

I dont think anyone is arguing that Ross isnt a pretty dour defense first coach but anyone who is would struggle in the face of the stats.

Finished 3rd (and probably had the best attack in the league with Kozi, Roo, Milne, Schneider) 8th best attack.

Freo finished 3rd, 11th best attack.

Saints in 2023 finished 6th, 14th best attack.

Yes, it certainly seems to be proven - now some facts have been presented in argument.

 

[Plugger35]

Don't understand the logic of the ultra defensive game plan. Not only is it dull, it's simply not effective

Welcome to No Mans Land Geelong.

We've saved you a seat next to us.

 

[Freomaniac]

Since beginning of 2019

Hawthorn at York Park 12-7
Everywhere else 29-2-65
Overall 41-2-72

Sucks being a small club, Saints get screwed so hard, lost by 8 at Kardinia Park (where we haven't won since 1999) and 5 at Launceston.

Despite the mediocre season, St Kilda would actually be 5-4 if we got games in Melbourne like Collingwood or Carlton would.

and freo would be in a much better position had freo not lost those 2 narrow games vs Carlton and Port at Adelaide oval.

 

[Freomaniac]

Welcome to No Mans Land Geelong.

We've saved you a seat next to us.

I am sure there is room for one more when Saints beat freo lol

 

[Freomaniac]

Yes, this is true,

It's interesting how, collectively, Marvel teams have underachieved- Since 2000 only 2 flags in 120 seasons, and less finals appearances than average.

But the link with home advantage is clearer when reviewing wooden spoons. Having only ~5 true home games a year diminishes the possibilities of winning when you're a bottom team. Compared to say West Coast this year who'll have 10 or 11 true home games. Much easier to snatch 5 or 6 wins. I think this is a huge reason why Carlton and North Melbourne have won so many spoons in recent years.

Since 1999, the last 25 seasons, interstate teams won 9 spoons and Melbourne teams won 16.

But of those 9, 1 was during covid and 3 were entry clubs GWS and GC.

So only 5 or 6 real wooden spoons in over 20 years to teams who have double the amount of genuine home games.

That isn't a coincidence.


I take it into consideration but I believe crowd support is more important than ground familiarity or travel beforehand.

Plenty of international studies were done during covid, analysing hundreds/ thousands of sporting games and demonstrating the impact of crowd support.

In Geelongs case, only a small sample size but they played 3 games at Kardinia Park during covid without crowds... and lost 2 of them.

Since 2007, Victorian sides have won flags each year except 2012 and 2018