Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[Yoda_]

I would. I love Darce but we have Parish, Smith, Shiel, Merrett as ~180 cm inside mids, which is simply far too many, and he doesn't have a distinguishing feature to set him apart from those guys, as good as he is. Watch people attack us in 3, 2, 1...

Yeah, people throw up Langford’s name expecting him to garner us a first rounder. He won’t. Laverne packages with one of our seconds. He won’t.
Darcy could genuinely attract us a position to move up the draft order.


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[Yoda_]

The bold is false. Parish would attract a first round pick, maybe not top 6 but certainly 7 to 18. Fantaisia would get us a first round outside the top 12. Merrett would certainly attract a first round and a second round pick. Daniher would attract a first round pick.

I meant (probably should have worded it better), the majority of people on here wouldn’t trade out the guys you mentioned. I would.


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[eth-dog]

Yeah, people throw up Langford’s name expecting him to garner us a first rounder. He won’t. Laverne packages with one of our seconds. He won’t.
Darcy could genuinely attract us a position to move up the draft order.


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Langford would net a mid second. Laverde a mid third.

 

[ant555]

The guys we went hard at weren’t exactly in positions we were in desperate need for though. Yes, they improved the team but not sure they were worth the investment we paid. I like them don’t get me wrong but the body of work the team had pre trades is no different to the one with these trades in it.


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Yes but the point is who else was available. Saad was absolutely worth it. Massive upgrade to the defence. Stringer has been god but he was supposed to be the icing on the Daniher / Fantaisa / Walla cake. Smith may not be a clearance machine but he is hard edge which is what we lack and Sheil who has disappointed with his kicking was the quick inside / outside midfielder we needed on top of an inside player. You can only get who is out there. We made offers to Dusty , Kelly , Setterfield in recent years to try and bolster the midfield. I know we even enquired about Lynch early on but it was not as serious as the thinking was Daniher would be up and running. We traded for players who did actually improve spots on the list. The issue is we had a few spots to fill , even more so when crucial players went down with injury.

 

[ant555]

Yeah, people throw up Langford’s name expecting him to garner us a first rounder. He won’t. Laverne packages with one of our seconds. He won’t.
Darcy could genuinely attract us a position to move up the draft order.


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Problem with that is you are trading out a good young player from an area we need more depth in so we can draft another young player to fill the same spot. Does not make sense. Trade a good midfielder aged under 22 who is finally getting going to draft another one. Would sooner draft two inside midfielders with our picks in the 30's.

 

[eth-dog]

Problem with that is you are trading out a good young player from an area we need more depth in so we can draft another young player to fill the same spot. Does not make sense. Trade a good midfielder aged under 22 who is finally getting going to draft another one. Would sooner draft two inside midfielders with our picks in the 30's.

I'd go one with 29 and Mitch Hibberd at 47

 

[ant555]

I'd go one with 29 and Mitch Hibberd at 47

Or this.

 

[eth-dog]

Or this.

That's in the situation where we don't trade Parish. If we did I'd look for a big bodied mid with said pick (hopefully in the 10-15 range) and Hibberd with the same pick. Maybe look at a Sam De Koning for one of our seconds.

 

[ant555]

At the end of the day this year we have been two B grade plus genuine midfielders short.
No depth in the inside mid department .
We have a ruck who is okay but not physical and does not take enough marks and lost our next best hope in the ruck early in the season.
We had to rely on a lead up forward in Brown to play contested marking forward along with McKernan as the key guy and lets face it McKernan is a decent B grade second or third guy / second ruck who can still have 4 or 5 shockers in a season.
There has been no depth in the forwards.
We play a string of flankers in the midfield.
Our skill level burns our team defence which relies on us rotating on the opposition forwards while the likes of Saad and McKenna get up the ground.
Right now we need two more genuine inside midfielder who do not have to be super quick but can not be slow.
Another decent ruck.
Another KP forward.
Some intervention from above so Daniher and Fantaisia can get back to being 40 plus goal forwards.
Depth in the midfield will help with the Merret / Sheil / Parish / McGrath kicking woes as you will find they will not always be under as much pressure.
I think Snelling will have an impact and we really missed Devon Smith more than people realise .

 

[CBombers17]

Can McKenna be developed into a midfielder? He is replaceable as a defender and It would add someone with breakaway speed who can use the football and some aggression/mongrel..

 

[Yoda_]

Yes but the point is who else was available. Saad was absolutely worth it. Massive upgrade to the defence. Stringer has been god but he was supposed to be the icing on the Daniher / Fantaisa / Walla cake. Smith may not be a clearance machine but he is hard edge which is what we lack and Sheil who has disappointed with his kicking was the quick inside / outside midfielder we needed on top of an inside player. You can only get who is out there. We made offers to Dusty , Kelly , Setterfield in recent years to try and bolster the midfield. I know we even enquired about Lynch early on but it was not as serious as the thinking was Daniher would be up and running. We traded for players who did actually improve spots on the list. The issue is we had a few spots to fill , even more so when crucial players went down with injury.

My point though, was it worth it? trading in S.S.S.S? We haven't improved at all since the Dodo premierships of Trade period post 2017.

 

[Lore]

My point though, was it worth it? trading in S.S.S.S? We haven't improved at all since the Dodo premierships of Trade period post 2017.

Well we could've been even shitter than we are now. Imagine that

 

[Yoda_]

Well we could've been even s**tter than we are now. Imagine that

We've sold the farm (3 x first round draft picks) and not improved.

That is a harder pill to swallow

 

[Lore]

We've sold the farm (3 x first round draft picks) and not improved.

That is a harder pill to swallow

If you really think that we've sold a farm for no improvement (presumably judged on ladder finishes without any nuance) then I won't try and change your mind.

Personally I think that they do make the team better, or at least as much better as draftees taken with the same picks could have. We've also lost about as much talent through injuries this year as we might've gained through the off-season though. But meh.


You did make me wonder what we actually gave up for the SSSssssss though...

9+11 for Dylan Shiel+31
35 for Adam Saad
25+30 for Jake Stringer
11+47 for Devon Smith+24 (became 25, on-traded for Stringer)+38


If the past is any indication of the future, then the average AFL games played by players taken with each pick over the last 35 drafts;

Pick 9 ≈ 98 games
Pick 11 ≈ 92 games
Pick 24 ≈ 74 games
Pick 25 ≈ 60 games
Pick 30 ≈ 59 games
Pick 31 ≈ 62 games
Pick 35 ≈ 31 games
Pick 38 ≈ 45 games
Pick 47 ≈ 60 games

Source

So a mid first round pick is as likely to net you a player that plays over a hundred games as one that doesn't make it. So more or less Henry Slattery, Leroy Jetta sorta thing, maybe a few others that limped to 100 for f/s purposes.

If you used a mid-20s pick you might get someone around about the quality/endurance of Tayte Pears or Sam Lonergan.

Later picks are akin to giving up something similar to Jackson Merrett, Reimers, Hardingham, etc.


So Slattery+Jetta for Shiel+Jacko Merrett?

 

[ant555]

My point though, was it worth it? trading in S.S.S.S? We haven't improved at all since the Dodo premierships of Trade period post 2017.

Yes it was worth it. The problem has been some key players have fallen over through injury. If they where not here we would have finished bottom 6. Two weeks ago we ran Collingwood to 10 points despite having a C grade forward line. Yes we got flogged by the Eagles this week but it was rather unlucky that we ran into the reigning premiers in Perth in an elimination final who had a point to prove after ******* up in the last round and costing themselves the double chance. I still think The Eagles will make the GF. All this haven't improved since 2017 is factual as far as wins goes but it is a shallow analysis. Anyone who thought we could be better this year would have been doing so on the back of Daniher and Fantaisia getting back to full fitness to start with. You would not have been thinking we will win 13 or 14 games and a final because our forward line will be lead by Brown and McKernan and Zak Clarke would be our ruck in the last 10 weeks.

 

[Yoda_]

Yes it was worth it. The problem has been some key players have fallen over through injury. If they where not here we would have finished bottom 6. Two weeks ago we ran Collingwood to 10 points despite having a C grade forward line. Yes we got flogged by the Eagles this week but it was rather unlucky that we ran into the reigning premiers in Perth in an elimination final who had a point to prove after ******* up in the last round and costing themselves the double chance. I still think The Eagles will make the GF. All this haven't improved since 2017 is factual as far as wins goes but it is a shallow analysis. Anyone who thought we could be better this year would have been doing so on the back of Daniher and Fantaisia getting back to full fitness to start with. You would not have been thinking we will win 13 or 14 games and a final because our forward line will be lead by Brown and McKernan and Zak Clarke would be our ruck in the last 10 weeks.

The fact so many are “falling over” as you mentioned is what will possibly change my mind Lore, in regards to it all being a good trade. The major fact we have not seen our best 22 for majority of the season is the big kicker.

It’s funny the luck some teams have had, and we’re certainly amongst that with the close wins recorded. Our season could have easily been much worse than the eventual 12:10, with 9 results less than 12 points (5 wins/4 losses).


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[ant555]

The fact so many are “falling over” as you mentioned is what will possibly change my mind Lore, in regards to it all being a good trade. The major fact we have not seen our best 22 for majority of the season is the big kicker.

It’s funny the luck some teams have had, and we’re certainly amongst that with the close wins recorded. Our season could have easily been much worse than the eventual 12:10, with 9 results less than 12 points (5 wins/4 losses).


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And in a couple of the loses we win the game if we could actually hit one of our forwards who where in space .....
Our biggest issue is our best players butchered the ball continually. If Sheil , Merret , Parish and McGrath can get their disposal into the low seventies on a regular basis we will look a much better side.

 

[Lore]

Anyone who thought we could be better this year would have been doing so on the back of Daniher and Fantaisia getting back to full fitness to start with. You would not have been thinking we will win 13 or 14 games and a final because our forward line will be lead by Brown and McKernan and Zak Clarke would be our ruck in the last 10 weeks.

You could almost call making finals at all under those circumstances over achieving...

 

[ant555]

Can McKenna be developed into a midfielder? He is replaceable as a defender and It would add someone with breakaway speed who can use the football and some aggression/mongrel..

Not midfield but I would like to see him on a wing and running from behind the contest. His defence can certainly be covered.

 

[ant555]

We've sold the farm (3 x first round draft picks) and not improved.

That is a harder pill to swallow

Not sure we have sold the farm.
Pick 11 for Devon Smith was worth it even with him missing most of this year as he will recover.
There where some good young players taken from pick 11 to pick 20 but none have been absolute stars who have come in and played every week. A couple like Butters and Duursma look very good.
This year has not happened yet and we do not know what we will get with our second round picks.
In the end who knows who we would have taken at pick 11 last year.

 

[Heppellicious]

At the end of the day this year we have been two B grade plus genuine midfielders short.
No depth in the inside mid department .
We have a ruck who is okay but not physical and does not take enough marks and lost our next best hope in the ruck early in the season.
We had to rely on a lead up forward in Brown to play contested marking forward along with McKernan as the key guy and lets face it McKernan is a decent B grade second or third guy / second ruck who can still have 4 or 5 shockers in a season.
There has been no depth in the forwards.
We play a string of flankers in the midfield.
Our skill level burns our team defence which relies on us rotating on the opposition forwards while the likes of Saad and McKenna get up the ground.
Right now we need two more genuine inside midfielder who do not have to be super quick but can not be slow.
Another decent ruck.
Another KP forward.
Some intervention from above so Daniher and Fantaisia can get back to being 40 plus goal forwards.
Depth in the midfield will help with the Merret / Sheil / Parish / McGrath kicking woes as you will find they will not always be under as much pressure.
I think Snelling will have an impact and we really missed Devon Smith more than people realise .

Are you keen on bring jack Martin in ant? Make no mistake we are still very keen.

 

[ant555]

Are you keen on bring jack Martin in ant? Make no mistake we are still very keen.

Yes and no. Like his pace and ability but not sure on the price and the fact we would still need to find inside midfielders. Also how has playing in a bad side effected his consistency ? can he be more productive week in and week out ? I am on the fence.

 

[Heppellicious]

Yes and no. Like his pace and ability but not sure on the price and the fact we would still need to find inside midfielders. Also how has playing in a bad side effected his consistency ? can he be more productive week in and week out ? I am on the fence.

What is his trade worth in your opinion?

Do you like Ed Langdon - huge engine in the tom Phillips mould - another that would provide spread.

 

[ant555]

What is his trade worth in your opinion?

Do you like Ed Langdon - huge engine in the tom Phillips mould - another that would provide spread.

One of our picks in the 30's may be about right but can we fit him in the Cap ? right now the hold up on Francis is money. He wants guaranteed (not huge) money where we are offering lower base with incentives. We would have to ask a few blokes to re negotiate to fit Martin in or he would have to take a decent hair cut.

I like Langdon and we could certainly use the run and spread.

 

[Milanista28]

Crazy time...

Lav to Swans for pick 40
Raz to Crows for 21 and 26
2020 1st to Cats for 18 and 36

Hit draft with 18, 21, 26, 29, 31, 36, 40, 47 - Mini rebuild started