News The Do Better Report - 12 Month Review

[Markfs]

You choose to miss the pretty obvious point that I was making just as I choose not to discuss the issue any further with you.

You have to forgive me. I have a lot of irish in my background.

 

[sr36]

you forgot the word "cheap". The tamils chose not to be given citizenship of sri lanka so many subsequent generations ended up stateless, and they chose to live below the living standard of most sri lankans, probably because they chose to work so cheaply...

you have to wonder why these ethnic groups choose to work so cheaply. They made a series of bad choices. It must be something common to all tamils.

It goes without saying that the labour was cheap, but would Malay/Indonesians been more expensive than Tamils or Chinese. Likewise for other colonies? The biggest advantage is that the workers were reliable and stayed in their job as they had nowhere else to go other than the plantation.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

This was actually the British policy - bring in foreign workers - as a minority group they were easier to control - so you see the same thing all over the former British colonies.

Maybe so but they were still brought in to do a job that the Sinhalese didn't want to do. Tamils then suffered in the same way that the Chinese minority in Malaysia did - they became over-represented in university courses and business at the expense of the the local population and in the former case became subject to a quota system to advantage the Sinhalese, who resented the success of the industrious Tamils. Tamils then suffered the same fate in Fiji where the business acumen made them successful out of proportion to their numbers. Quota systems may advantage both minority and majority groups, but in creating avenues for success for some there also needs to be an awareness that well credentialed people can miss opportunities of which they are deserving.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

you forgot the word "cheap". The tamils chose not to be given citizenship of sri lanka so many subsequent generations ended up stateless, and they chose to live below the living standard of most sri lankans, probably because they chose to work so cheaply...

you have to wonder why these ethnic groups choose to work so cheaply. They made a series of bad choices. It must be something common to all tamils.

The Tamils are fiercely passionate people and share a very strong bond in Tamil Nadu. Their reluctance to become Sri Lankan citizens is understandable.

 

[Markfs]

It goes without saying that the labour was cheap, but would Malay/Indonesians been more expensive than Tamils or Chinese. Likewise for other colonies? The biggest advantage is that the workers were reliable and stayed in their job as they had nowhere else to go other than the plantation.

well evidently tamils prefer to work on tea plantations and malays prefer menial jobs so they might like tea plantations. chinese are good at business so tea plantations arent going to be suitable for them. I'm not sure what indonesians like to do.

 

[Markfs]

The Tamils are fiercely passionate people and share a very strong bond in Tamil Nadu. Their reluctance to become Sri Lankan citizens is understandable.

well it seems that they were deemed stateless at sri lankan independence, so they made a bad choice of going there in the first instance. The Indian gov't promised citizenship to those who wanted to return but renegged on the agreement after some time, which only compounds their poor decision. I think this goes to show that Tamil people are very trusting and make bad decisions.

Anyway we should get back to discussing how indigenous people should get to do what they are traditionally good at.....

 

[Quicky]

I wonder how off topic we can make this thread?

 

[Markfs]

I wonder how off topic we can make this thread?

You thought this thread went off topic? You should try the italian forums that I go to. All italians post off topic, every one. And from what i've heard of nigerian forums, it's hard to distinguish the topic because nigerians are compulsive off topic posters. We should be grateful that we're australians and can keep a little discipline...

 

[sr36]

Maybe so but they were still brought in to do a job that the Sinhalese didn't want to do. Tamils then suffered in the same way that the Chinese minority in Malaysia did - they became over-represented in university courses and business at the expense of the the local population and in the former case became subject to a quota system to advantage the Sinhalese, who resented the success of the industrious Tamils. Tamils then suffered the same fate in Fiji where the business acumen made them successful out of proportion to their numbers. Quota systems may advantage both minority and majority groups, but in creating avenues for success for some there also needs to be an awareness that well credentialed people can miss opportunities of which they are deserving.

The AFL like most of Australia, I believe, has gone with incentives and targets rather than quotas. Much better way to go. It's become a real trigger word, as seen by this thread becoming about quotas despite them not being a factor in the story.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

The AFL like most of Australia, I believe, has gone with incentives and targets rather than quotas. Much better way to go. It's become a real trigger word, as seen by this thread becoming about quotas despite them not being a factor in the story.

I knew that there were no quotas set! I was merely mounting a case in a agreement with a no quotas policy. Would've been over in one post if there weren't so many argumentative members in this forum.

 

[sr36]

I knew that there were no quotas set! I was merely mounting a case in a agreement with a no quotas policy. Would've been over in one post if there weren't so many argumentative members in this forum.

I wasn't referring to you with trigger. It'd already become a quota discussion.

 

[jmac70]

My wife has three Aboriginal people in her team.

 

[Mollythedolly]

How many of those other cultural groups have lived in this country for 50,000 years?

That's not really a consideration relative to comparable disadvantage, especially in areas like health, education participation and qualification attainment, youth unemployment and engagement, and involvement with criminal justice systems.

If any of those other communities circumstances were as dire as that of first nations peoples then I'm sure they'd also be getting singled out.

It's not like Collingwood FC are out of step with national initiatives and imperatives on this. If footy and sport more broadly can be a vehicle to redress the disadvantage of first nations peoples then more power to it.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Yet there were 82 Indigenous players in men's footy last year (I think there's about 650-700 players league-wide). So if anything, 5% is an underrepresentation

May even have been more given there'll be the occasional person who chooses not to identify as indigenous.

 

[76woodenspooners]

The report stated we should have a 5% indigenous workforce?

I guess other races and minorities just aren't as important ?

As predictable as death and taxes

 

[76woodenspooners]

Age has now amended online article to read as follows, "The review said stakeholders had recommended other employment changes include “minimising nepotism” and a minimum five per cent Indigenous workforce across the club.", which is not perfectly correct, but good enough.

Curious about the “nepotism” comment? Wonder if it refers to father / sons / daughters of which we have 7?

 

[sr36]

Curious about the “nepotism” comment? Wonder if it refers to father / sons / daughters of which we have 7?

It's used these days to also include friends and contacts.

 

[76woodenspooners]

It's used these days to also include friends and contacts.

As in we recruited Fly because he worked with Wrighty at Hawthorn and he’d been at Collingwood before? And we recruited Leppa because Fly played with him at Brisbane and worked with him at Richmond? And we recruited Bolton because Fly worked with with him at Hawks?

It’s a small industry, I would imagine that everybody kinda knows everybody?

 

[sideswipe]

Curious about the “nepotism” comment? Wonder if it refers to father / sons / daughters of which we have 7?

I didn’t read that as anything specific to Collingwood. It was one of a number of items (the quota not one of them) that should be elements of any recruitment policy.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[sr36]

As in we recruited Fly because he worked with Wrighty at Hawthorn and he’d been at Collingwood before? And we recruited Leppa because Fly played with him at Brisbane and worked with him at Richmond? And we recruited Bolton because Fly worked with with him at Hawks?

It’s a small industry, I would imagine that everybody kinda knows everybody?

Yes. But it's also why you don't get diversity. Because people from a similar cultural background are more likely to become mates and they hire each other. Probably a big factor in the lack of indigenous blokes in the coaching ranks.

 

[JB1975]

I wonder how off topic we can make this thread?

Today I won a ticket to go to a Collingwood Presidential luncheon.

The changing of the seasons away from the warmer weather makes me melancholy.

 

[Markfs]

Curious about the “nepotism” comment? Wonder if it refers to father / sons / daughters of which we have 7?

more like that a lot of the activities behind the scenes are seasonal and are probably filled by casuals who are usually some relative of someone important at the club....getting membership cards out etc etc. the father sons cant be nepotism if its sanctioned by the afl..

 

[Quicky]

Curious about the “nepotism” comment? Wonder if it refers to father / sons / daughters of which we have 7?

I think the word nepotism is used in a much broader way than it's actual definition by many people. It seems to be used to encompass cronyism as well - friends rather than just family. I reckon that might have been what the quote was refering to. You hear the boys club chatter around often enough. I imagine some of it's probably justified, some not.

 

[Markfs]

I think the word nepotism is used in a much broader way than it's actual definition by many people. It seems to be used to encompass cronyism as well - friends rather than just family. I reckon that might have been what the quote was refering to. You hear the boys club chatter around often enough. I imagine some of it's probably justified, some not.

putting friends in jobs is nepotism as well. I think cronyism is more about putting people into positions to support your own position. I think a lot of sporting clubs and non profits have a casual vacancy and a friend of someone fills it because the organisation isnt professional enough to do the process right....and it becomes a habit even when the organisation gets bigger. I've worked in organisations like that. Someone's son gets a job for month or two...and then it becomes longterm. Or a friend of a person who already works there. Most of the time it's just slack and unprofessional. It was probably the way things were done for most of collingwood's history when they had very few permanent staff.

 

[Quicky]

I thought this was an interesting read and provides a good insight into the challenges indigenous players face in the AFL.


It was also interesting in the context of the Do Better Report. Particularly considering the discussion in this thread about including other clubs learnings in our process. How do you actually know if you're incorporating good practices? Also considering comments in the Report criticising the AFL and other AFL clubs.

‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

It is almost four years since Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett spoke to Cyril Rioli’s wife Shannyn in a manner that ultimately precipitated the champion footballer’s dramatic exit from the football club and the game that he had so richly punctuated for more than a decade.

www.theage.com.au