Training Training Reports - Current report, Monday 13th February, Post #1427

Remove this Banner Ad

I hope you guys dont mind me intruding. Im actully in a legacy draft supercoach league and was looking up players for my draft team. But I do enjoy the strategy dialogue.

I dont think we snuck under the radar. Bevo had us playing the same style of gameplan since he came to us before the start of the 2015 season. That year after losing Higgins, Cooney, Griffen and then out reigning best and fairest Libba due to an ACL in preseason we were widely tipped to be bottom 4 possibly spoon contenders.

With an arguably less talented list than 2014 that finished 14th in 2015 we made finals and missed out on an elimination final by a kick to Adelaide.

Now to our 7th placed finish in 2016. I think its more a product of our injuries rather than a true representation of our list.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...g/news-story/52cdac4a138c47bff1638ed75343c0c8

Now Bevo has a preferred style of play. A preferred team list profile that can carry out the style of play he wants that will win us games. To see what that is you only need to look at our team list Round 1 2016 against Fremantle. To save you guys time ill list the number of key position players we had. Marcus Adams, Dale Morris, both undersized key defenders. In the forward line we had a sole Key forward in Tom Boyd who also shared rucking duties with Jordan Roughead. We absolutely destroyed teams like Freo and Saints who played an abundance of key position players with little to no contribution. Its how Sydney destroyed Geelong and Adelaide in the finals also. Its also how we beat most teams. West Coast and Adelaide boast lethal forward lines. But you negate them if you keep the ball out of their forward line. We do this by harassment running at the ball carrier, marking their easy handball options and clogging up space forward of the ball by hard running.

Its the only way to protect an undersized no name defence.

To give you an example of this style of play you only need look at Geelong vs Sydney in the elimination final. Geelong almost doubled Sydneys amount of inside 50s but Sydney destroyed them on the score board. This is also after Aliir Aliir, one of their key defenders went down during the game. But if you watch the game you'll see that most of those inside 50s were dirty chaos entries from a midfield under constant pressure. Of those roughly 50 inside 50s Sydneys smaller and hard running half back line were able to waltz it back out about 40 times. Geelong played an absolute excess of one dimensional static key position players. If they werent clunking the ball with a contested mark then they got done on the rebound.

Fast forward 1 week to the grand final and Sydney faced a team that played even less key position sized players than they do. And weight of numbers through pressure simply brought them undone.

Now this style of play can be beat. Obviously. When a team like Hawks has that purity of disposal that can pierce through the pressure to hit targets going forward. Or if a team like Geelong (with a player like Dsnger) that can beat you at the contest as to nullify your midfield and get it going their way. Then yeah, we can be beat.

But we lost some games during the year because we lost players due to injury and we had to try to slow down the game or play a more traditional style of play (two key forwards, three key backs for example) because our depth was being stretched and we didnt have the right personnel to carry out our "A" gameplan.

We were able to get back to that start of the finals and the rest is history.

I do agree, GWS are quite rightly the #1 contenders this year. They usually play a traditional number of key position sized players but their midfield runs that deep and uses the ball that cleanly that their disposal by foot is almost as good as yours and their forward line is absolutely lethal with Cameron, Patton, Greene, Stevie J and the resting Lobb.

But we still beat them. They did clunk some marks and we were exposed. But they got very few goals from general play. They had to mark it.

What im saying is I think 7th isnt a true representation of our team and that at the most opportune time we got the right players back into the team to carry out Bevos favoured game style. With the re-inclusions of Murphy, Crameri, Adams and our #1 clearance player in Mitch Wallis we should be back in it up to our eye balls.
 
Last edited:

Log in to remove this ad.

Davo23 said:
I guess my point is that the Bulldogs never dominated the competition in the regular season, and were 7th on the ladder.
In our last 6 years, we've been in the top 4 every year.
Click to expand...

There wasn't really a dominant team last year. We certainly weren't dominant, certainly not compared to 2013-15. And 6 single digit wins confirms it.

In terms of the top 8, there was only 4 points separating 1st and 6th and the Dogs in 7th only missed out on top 4 by a game and %.
 
Royale said:
I hope you guys dont mind me intruding. Im actully in a legacy draft supercoach league and was looking up players for my draft team. But I do enjoy the strategy dialogue.

I dont think we snuck under the radar. Bevo had us playing the same style of gameplan since he came to us before the start of the 2015 season. That year after losing Higgins, Cooney, Griffen and then out reigning best and fairest Libba due to an ACL in preseason we were widely tipped to be bottom 4 possibly spoon contenders.

With an arguably less talented list than 2014 that finished 14 in 2015 we made finals and missed out on an elimination final by a kick to Adelaide.

Now to our 7th placed finish in 2016. I think its more a product of our injuries rather than a true representation of our list.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...g/news-story/52cdac4a138c47bff1638ed75343c0c8

Now Bevo has a preferred style of play. A preferred team list profile that can carry out the style of play he wants that will win us games. To see what that is you only need to look at our team list Round 1 2016 against Fremantle. To save you guys time ill list the number of key position players we had. Marcus Adams, Dale Morris, both undersized key defenders. In the forward line we had a sole Key forward in Tom Boyd who also shared rucking duties with Jordan Roughead. We absolutely destroyed teams like Freo and Saints who played an abundance of key position players with little to no contribution. Its how Sydney destroyed Geelong and Adelaide in the finals also. Its also how we beat most teams. West Coast and Adelaide boast lethal forward lines. But you negate them if you keep the ball out of their forward line. We do this by harassment running at the ball carrier, marking their easy handball options and clogging up space forward of the ball by hard running.

Its the only way to protect an undersized no name defence.

To give you an example of this style of play you only need look at Geelong vs Sydney in the elimination final. Geelong almost doubled Sydneys amount of inside 50s but Sydney destroyed them on the score board. This is also after Aliir Aliir, one of their key defenders went down during the game. But if you watch the game you'll see that most of those inside 50s were dirty chaos entries from a midfield under constant pressure. Of those roughly 50 inside 50s Sydneys smaller and hard running half back line were able to waltz it back out about 40 times. Geelong played an absolute excess of one dimensional static key position players. If they werent clunking the ball with a contested mark then they got done on the rebound.

Fast forward 1 week to the grand final and Sydney faced a team that played even less key position sized players than they do. And weight of numbers through pressure simply brought then undone.

Now this style of play can be beat. Obviously. When a team like Hawks has that purity of disposal that can pierce through the pressure to hit targets going forward. Or if a team like Geelong (with a player like Dsnger) that can beat you at the contest as to nullify your midfield and get it going their way. Then yeah, we can be beat.

But we only lost games during the year because we lost players due to injury and we had to try to slow down the game or play a more traditional style of play (two key forwards, three key backs for example) because or depth was being stretched and we didnt have the right personnel to carry out our "A" gameplan.

We were able to get back to that start of the finals and the rest is history.

I do agree, GWS are quite rightly the #1 contenders this year. They usually play a traditional number of key position sized players but their midfield runs that deep and uses the ball that cleanly that their disposal by foot is almost as good as yours and their forward line is absolutely lethal with Cameron, Patton, Greene, Stevie J and the resting Lobb.

But we still beat them. They did clunk some marks and we were exposed. But they got very few goals from general play. They had to mark it.

What im saying is I think 7th isnt a true representation of our team and that at the most opportune time we got the right players back into the team to carry out Bevos favoured game style. With the re-inclusions of Murphy, Crameri, Adams and our #1 clearance player in Mitch Wallis we should be back in it up to our eye balls.
Click to expand...
TL;DR
 
Royale said:
I hope you guys dont mind me intruding. Im actully in a legacy draft supercoach league and was looking up players for my draft team. But I do enjoy the strategy dialogue.

I dont think we snuck under the radar. Bevo had us playing the same style of gameplan since he came to us before the start of the 2015 season. That year after losing Higgins, Cooney, Griffen and then out reigning best and fairest Libba due to an ACL in preseason we were widely tipped to be bottom 4 possibly spoon contenders.

With an arguably less talented list than 2014 that finished 14 in 2015 we made finals and missed out on an elimination final by a kick to Adelaide.

Now to our 7th placed finish in 2016. I think its more a product of our injuries rather than a true representation of our list.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...g/news-story/52cdac4a138c47bff1638ed75343c0c8

Now Bevo has a preferred style of play. A preferred team list profile that can carry out the style of play he wants that will win us games. To see what that is you only need to look at our team list Round 1 2016 against Fremantle. To save you guys time ill list the number of key position players we had. Marcus Adams, Dale Morris, both undersized key defenders. In the forward line we had a sole Key forward in Tom Boyd who also shared rucking duties with Jordan Roughead. We absolutely destroyed teams like Freo and Saints who played an abundance of key position players with little to no contribution. Its how Sydney destroyed Geelong and Adelaide in the finals also. Its also how we beat most teams. West Coast and Adelaide boast lethal forward lines. But you negate them if you keep the ball out of their forward line. We do this by harassment running at the ball carrier, marking their easy handball options and clogging up space forward of the ball by hard running.

Its the only way to protect an undersized no name defence.

To give you an example of this style of play you only need look at Geelong vs Sydney in the elimination final. Geelong almost doubled Sydneys amount of inside 50s but Sydney destroyed them on the score board. This is also after Aliir Aliir, one of their key defenders went down during the game. But if you watch the game you'll see that most of those inside 50s were dirty chaos entries from a midfield under constant pressure. Of those roughly 50 inside 50s Sydneys smaller and hard running half back line were able to waltz it back out about 40 times. Geelong played an absolute excess of one dimensional static key position players. If they werent clunking the ball with a contested mark then they got done on the rebound.

Fast forward 1 week to the grand final and Sydney faced a team that played even less key position sized players than they do. And weight of numbers through pressure simply brought then undone.

Now this style of play can be beat. Obviously. When a team like Hawks has that purity of disposal that can pierce through the pressure to hit targets going forward. Or if a team like Geelong (with a player like Dsnger) that can beat you at the contest as to nullify your midfield and get it going their way. Then yeah, we can be beat.

But we only lost games during the year because we lost players due to injury and we had to try to slow down the game or play a more traditional style of play (two key forwards, three key backs for example) because or depth was being stretched and we didnt have the right personnel to carry out our "A" gameplan.

We were able to get back to that start of the finals and the rest is history.

I do agree, GWS are quite rightly the #1 contenders this year. They usually play a traditional number of key position sized players but their midfield runs that deep and uses the ball that cleanly that their disposal by foot is almost as good as yours and their forward line is absolutely lethal with Cameron, Patton, Greene, Stevie J and the resting Lobb.

But we still beat them. They did clunk some marks and we were exposed. But they got very few goals from general play. They had to mark it.

What im saying is I think 7th isnt a true representation of our team and that at the most opportune time we got the right players back into the team to carry out Bevos favoured game style. With the re-inclusions of Murphy, Crameri, Adams and our #1 clearance player in Mitch Wallis we should be back in it up to our eye balls.
Click to expand...


So you only lost games because of injuries!
 
Royale said:
edited my post for accuracy.

But to answer you directly, no, some games we simply got beaten. Us losing to you Rd 3 for example.
Click to expand...


I know how you feel: the Hawks have never lost a game by the other team being better than them.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Royale said:
edited my post for accuracy.

But to answer you directly, no, some games we simply got beaten. Us losing to you Rd 3 for example.
Click to expand...
Hmmmmmmm, Bob did do his knee before Sicily kicked that goal
 
Royale said:
I hope you guys dont mind me intruding. Im actully in a legacy draft supercoach league and was looking up players for my draft team. But I do enjoy the strategy dialogue.

I dont think we snuck under the radar. Bevo had us playing the same style of gameplan since he came to us before the start of the 2015 season. That year after losing Higgins, Cooney, Griffen and then out reigning best and fairest Libba due to an ACL in preseason we were widely tipped to be bottom 4 possibly spoon contenders.

With an arguably less talented list than 2014 that finished 14th in 2015 we made finals and missed out on an elimination final by a kick to Adelaide.

Now to our 7th placed finish in 2016. I think its more a product of our injuries rather than a true representation of our list.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...g/news-story/52cdac4a138c47bff1638ed75343c0c8

Now Bevo has a preferred style of play. A preferred team list profile that can carry out the style of play he wants that will win us games. To see what that is you only need to look at our team list Round 1 2016 against Fremantle. To save you guys time ill list the number of key position players we had. Marcus Adams, Dale Morris, both undersized key defenders. In the forward line we had a sole Key forward in Tom Boyd who also shared rucking duties with Jordan Roughead. We absolutely destroyed teams like Freo and Saints who played an abundance of key position players with little to no contribution. Its how Sydney destroyed Geelong and Adelaide in the finals also. Its also how we beat most teams. West Coast and Adelaide boast lethal forward lines. But you negate them if you keep the ball out of their forward line. We do this by harassment running at the ball carrier, marking their easy handball options and clogging up space forward of the ball by hard running.

Its the only way to protect an undersized no name defence.

To give you an example of this style of play you only need look at Geelong vs Sydney in the elimination final. Geelong almost doubled Sydneys amount of inside 50s but Sydney destroyed them on the score board. This is also after Aliir Aliir, one of their key defenders went down during the game. But if you watch the game you'll see that most of those inside 50s were dirty chaos entries from a midfield under constant pressure. Of those roughly 50 inside 50s Sydneys smaller and hard running half back line were able to waltz it back out about 40 times. Geelong played an absolute excess of one dimensional static key position players. If they werent clunking the ball with a contested mark then they got done on the rebound.

Fast forward 1 week to the grand final and Sydney faced a team that played even less key position sized players than they do. And weight of numbers through pressure simply brought them undone.

Now this style of play can be beat. Obviously. When a team like Hawks has that purity of disposal that can pierce through the pressure to hit targets going forward. Or if a team like Geelong (with a player like Dsnger) that can beat you at the contest as to nullify your midfield and get it going their way. Then yeah, we can be beat.

But we lost some games during the year because we lost players due to injury and we had to try to slow down the game or play a more traditional style of play (two key forwards, three key backs for example) because our depth was being stretched and we didnt have the right personnel to carry out our "A" gameplan.

We were able to get back to that start of the finals and the rest is history.

I do agree, GWS are quite rightly the #1 contenders this year. They usually play a traditional number of key position sized players but their midfield runs that deep and uses the ball that cleanly that their disposal by foot is almost as good as yours and their forward line is absolutely lethal with Cameron, Patton, Greene, Stevie J and the resting Lobb.

But we still beat them. They did clunk some marks and we were exposed. But they got very few goals from general play. They had to mark it.

What im saying is I think 7th isnt a true representation of our team and that at the most opportune time we got the right players back into the team to carry out Bevos favoured game style. With the re-inclusions of Murphy, Crameri, Adams and our #1 clearance player in Mitch Wallis we should be back in it up to our eye balls.
Click to expand...
Good post but interested why Bulldogs would go after Cloke if indeed your preferred team includes no one dimensional players and how you predict you will structure up with Cloke and Crameri in the team
 
Yuley95 said:
Good post but interested why Bulldogs would go after Cloke if indeed your preferred team includes no one dimensional players and how you predict you will structure up with Cloke and Crameri in the team
Click to expand...

All I can think is that teams with a weak backline will be exposed by his marking. So he could be a spot player. Make sure his handball hits the target so someone else can kick for goal and the dogs will have quite a weapon.
 
Dewnior said:
Hmmmmmmm, Bob did do his knee before Sicily kicked that goal
Click to expand...

This is a very very under rated post.

It could be argued if Murphy didnt do his knee Sicily probably doesn't take that mark.

Hawthorn potentially don't win that game and as a result finish outside the top 4 and the Dogs finish higher on the ladder.

Who is to say the Dogs would have won the flag by finishing 5th or 6th?

Who is to say the hawks couldn't have won it from 6th or 7th?
 
89Adopter said:
I'm certainly not locking them in for another grand final or flag - I just think some are dismissing their chances of contending a bit too flippantly.

Morris and Boyd could have starring seasons again - based on the longevity of some players in the modern game I think it's not crazy to think that older players who have had a great year won't be able to back it up.

In terms of their overall list age - it's not as old as you'd think. They are somewhere in the middle of the average age list, with their squad younger than ours, Sydney's, Geelong's and GWS's. They only have one more player than us aged over 30, and one less than GWS.

Getting Cloke was pretty much a luxury for them. They are getting Crameri back as it is, and should get Redpath back next year as well. Tom Boyd might finally have the confidence to grow into his ability as well. They got Cloke for next to nothing and he wanted to go there - it was just a smart transaction for them and I don't think is any concession of panic.

I could well be wrong and they end up finishing 9th and have a massive premiership hangover. Personally I don't see it, and would see them finishing top 4 should they not have injuries like they did in 2016.
Click to expand...
If they would have fallen flat in finals it would STILL not be outrageous to say they were contenders next year. AND the monkey is off their back.

They could be crazy good this year











Not good enuf though for JOM and Ernie
 
RIOLINWITPUNCHS said:
This is a very very under rated post.

It could be argued if Murphy didnt do his knee Sicily probably doesn't take that mark.

Hawthorn potentially don't win that game and as a result finish outside the top 4 and the Dogs finish higher on the ladder.

Who is to say the Dogs would have won the flag by finishing 5th or 6th?

Who is to say the hawks couldn't have won it from 6th or 7th?
Click to expand...
I suggest you watch the replay again. Murphy was never going to make a spoil. Murphy had his back to the ball as he was moving in on Breust (appeared to be holding onto him too). Breust had perfect position and was facing forward watching the flight. Sicily had a clear run unopposed to mark it. Had Sicily not been there then the probable result would have been Breust (as he normally does in this situation) breaking contact with Murphy at the last moment to take a chest mark. Even if Murphy did somehow manage to prevent a Hawthorn mark then it would've likely been by infringing through holding the man or front on contact.
 
Yuley95 said:
Good post but interested why Bulldogs would go after Cloke if indeed your preferred team includes no one dimensional players and how you predict you will structure up with Cloke and Crameri in the team
Click to expand...
Because he's cheap. Both salary and what we gave up. (Pick 70 i think?)

As far as being one dimensional its a case of wait and see. Presumably he'd take Zaine Cordys spot in our grand final team.

Plus I think some teams are more susceptible to being streched in defence by a taller option.

GWS for example. For all their high draft picks they havent really drafted a decent key defender. Last year they relied on an injury prone Phil Davis and a now retired ex Lion in Patful. The high draft pick key defenders they had have all been traded away in Jaksch (12), Plowman (3) and Marchbank (6). I could definitely see a spot for Cloke in a team that takes on GWS.

Its nice to have the option at least.
 
cryptor said:
I suggest you watch the replay again. Murphy was never going to make a spoil. Murphy had his back to the ball as he was moving in on Breust (appeared to be holding onto him too). Breust had perfect position and was facing forward watching the flight. Sicily had a clear run unopposed to mark it. Had Sicily not been there then the probable result would have been Breust (as he normally does in this situation) breaking contact with Murphy at the last moment to take a chest mark. Even if Murphy did somehow manage to prevent a Hawthorn mark then it would've likely been by infringing through holding the man or front on contact.
Click to expand...

How dare you let the truth get in the way of my good story.
 
Royale said:
Because he's cheap. Both salary and what we gave up. (Pick 70 i think?)

As far as being one dimensional its a case of wait and see. Presumably he'd take Zaine Cordys spot in our grand final team.

Plus I think some teams are more susceptible to being streched in defence by a taller option.

GWS for example. For all their high draft picks they havent really drafted a decent key defender. Last year they relied on an injury prone Phil Davis and a now retired ex Lion in Patful. The high draft pick key defenders they had have all been traded away in Jaksch (12), Plowman (3) and Marchbank (6). I could definitely see a spot for Cloke in a team that takes on GWS.

Its nice to have the option at least.
Click to expand...

Very good observation of GWS.

If their is a club out their with multiple key defenders they could probably get a very very good deal from the giants for that sort of player.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Strapping Young Lad
  • Locked
Preview Round 5, 2024: Suns v Hawks, 7:30pm Sat 13th April, People First Stadium
8 9 10 11 12
Replies
285
Views
16K
Hot Cheese Rioli
Hot Cheese Rioli
TylerDurden
2023 Annual report
2 3
Replies
55
Views
3K
The Jet From Poowong
The Jet From Poowong
Strapping Young Lad
  • Locked
Game Day Round 3, 2024 : Hawks Vs. Cats Easter Monday edition
55 56 57 58 59
Replies
1K
Views
29K
Brant
B
Strapping Young Lad
Training 2024 Preseason reports and discussion
217 218 219 220 221
Replies
6K
Views
469K
hawkman
hawkman
cryptor
  • Locked
Game Day Round 22, 2023 : Hawks V Dogs, UTAS 1:10pm Sunday 13th Aug
34 35 36 37 38
Replies
941
Views
17K
StillAtLarge
StillAtLarge
Strapping Young Lad
  • Locked
Preview Round 22, 2023 : Hawks V Dogs, UTAS 1:10pm Sunday 13th Aug
6 7 8 9 10
Replies
237
Views
16K
cryptor
cryptor
Strapping Young Lad
  • Locked
Preview Round 9, 2023 : Hawks v Demons, 4.35pm Sat 13th May
18 19 20 21 22
Replies
527
Views
23K
The Kipster
The Kipster

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top