Waxit - It's time for the WA succession movement again

[Maggie5]

What a shame Australia/WA didn't do this, may not have money/budget issues:

Norway’s oil fund, the world’s largest sovereign wealth fund, has topped $1tn for the first time in its history. The oil fund, which started in 1996, reached NKr7,811bn ($1.001tn) on Wednesday morning. Officials confirmed it was the first time it breached the trillion dollar barrier.

In a country of just 5.2m people, the oil fund has been an extraordinary success, growing faster than ministers imagined to become one of the world’s largest investors, owning on average 1.3 per cent of every listed company in the world.

The fund was set up to help manage Norway’s oil wealth for future generations by taking all the revenues the state receives from petroleum and investing it in financial assets abroad.

 

[Belnakor]

What a shame Australia/WA didn't do this, may not have money/budget issues:

works out to be about 200k per person saved, their return would only be 10k each person, not enough to fix a budget like WA's at the moment. They'd end up just raiding it.

The Australian version has about 100 billion in it.

 

[Maggie5]

works out to be about 200k per person saved, their return would only be 10k each person, not enough to fix a budget like WA's at the moment. They'd end up just raiding it.

The Australian version has about 100 billion in it.

From resources?

 

[Belnakor]

From resources?

depends how you classify it

 

[Maggie5]

depends how you classify it

That is what I am asking you if you are comparing to Norway.

 

[The_Reaper]

What a shame Australia/WA didn't do this, may not have money/budget issues:

Norway’s oil fund, the world’s largest sovereign wealth fund, has topped $1tn for the first time in its history. The oil fund, which started in 1996, reached NKr7,811bn ($1.001tn) on Wednesday morning. Officials confirmed it was the first time it breached the trillion dollar barrier.

In a country of just 5.2m people, the oil fund has been an extraordinary success, growing faster than ministers imagined to become one of the world’s largest investors, owning on average 1.3 per cent of every listed company in the world.

The fund was set up to help manage Norway’s oil wealth for future generations by taking all the revenues the state receives from petroleum and investing it in financial assets abroad.

Why? You eastern staters would have taken it all through GST anyway.

 

[Maggie5]

Why? You eastern staters would have taken it all through GST anyway.

I don't make decisions, shouldn't have stopped WA government from doing something similar. Irrespective of which party was governing.
I was being non party bias.

 

[Power Raid]

What a shame Australia/WA didn't do this, may not have money/budget issues:

Norway’s oil fund, the world’s largest sovereign wealth fund, has topped $1tn for the first time in its history. The oil fund, which started in 1996, reached NKr7,811bn ($1.001tn) on Wednesday morning. Officials confirmed it was the first time it breached the trillion dollar barrier.

In a country of just 5.2m people, the oil fund has been an extraordinary success, growing faster than ministers imagined to become one of the world’s largest investors, owning on average 1.3 per cent of every listed company in the world.

The fund was set up to help manage Norway’s oil wealth for future generations by taking all the revenues the state receives from petroleum and investing it in financial assets abroad.

yep Australia had a slow start but by comparison we have $2 trillion (effectively 50% on a per capita basis) but projected to be $9.5tillion within two decades

let's revisit this every 5 years.

 

[tandino]

Didn't Rudd have a crack at getting his hands on some of that early on as Prime Minister? Or was that my imagination?

 

[The_Reaper]

I don't make decisions, shouldn't have stopped WA government from doing something similar. Irrespective of which party was governing.
I was being non party bias.

It would because how does state government pay for anything then?
The amount of GST lost is essentially equivalent to the royalties revenue.

 

[Power Raid]

It would because how does state government pay for anything then?
The amount of GST lost is essentially equivalent to the royalties revenue.

FTR our O&G is mainly offshore and is already subject to a PRRT but like Norway this a federal government tax

our PRRT is 40% compared to Norway's 51%. So what some people want, they probably don't appreciate they already have it. The real difference is we have 4 times the population and 4 times less production.

 

[Elroo]

Didn't Rudd have a crack at getting his hands on some of that early on as Prime Minister? Or was that my imagination?

This.

 

[Power Raid]

Didn't Rudd have a crack at getting his hands on some of that early on as Prime Minister? Or was that my imagination?

Rudd's crack was not only trying to get a "crack" at the profits, he was also trying to have a crack at the losses. It was truly bizarre.

 

[Elroo]

From resources?

From transferring shares from Telstra and depositing some of the budget surplus into the Future Fund.

 

[Elroo]

Rudd's crack was not only trying to get a "crack" at the profits, he was also trying to have a crack at the losses. It was truly bizarre.

His what Power Fail?

 

[Power Raid]

works out to be about 200k per person saved, their return would only be 10k each person, not enough to fix a budget like WA's at the moment. They'd end up just raiding it.

The Australian version has about 100 billion in it.

actually our equivalent is over 2 trillion!

The difference between ours and theirs is ours is privatised and far more flexible. Ours is also far more stable and built on strong foundations supported by a broad economy and a broad taxation base.

 

[tandino]

Rudd's crack was not only trying to get a "crack" at the profits, he was also trying to have a crack at the losses. It was truly bizarre.

Yeah I remember the Super Profits Tax, that was really a bullet dodged.

This.

Looked it up, there was a proposal when Rudd was opposition leader to sell the rest of the Government's share holding in Telstra and use it to fund the National Broadband Network, but I don't think anything came of it when Rudd was Prime Minister.

 

[Belnakor]

Looked it up, there was a proposal when Rudd was opposition leader to sell the rest of the Government's share holding in Telstra and use it to fund the National Broadband Network, but I don't think anything came of it when Rudd was Prime Minister.

dumb idea. if they had just decided to use Telstra to build the NBN we'd probably be done by now.

 

[Power Raid]

dumb idea. if they had just decided to use Telstra to build the NBN we'd probably be done by now.

and our issues in telecommunications would have been resolved by tendering this project and separating the retail from the infrastructure at the same time.

better still if the project was jointly owned and funded by the property owners, who benefit from this infrastructure upgrade.

but that's a lost opportunity now

 

[Rob]

I don't make decisions, shouldn't have stopped WA government from doing something similar. Irrespective of which party was governing.
I was being non party bias.

WA raises $1 in royalties, loses 90c in GST.

That's why the state government couldn't create a wealth fund. Especially at a time of booming population growth, which means an increase in infrastructure expenditure.

 

[Power Raid]

WA raises $1 in royalties, loses 90c in GST.

That's why the state government couldn't create a wealth fund. Especially at a time of booming population growth, which means an increase in infrastructure expenditure.

federal government also can't create a wealth fund as it would have to be distributed to the states unless offset against liabilities like the future fund is

 

[Rob]

federal government also can't create a wealth fund as it would have to be distributed to the states unless offset against liabilities like the future fund is

What do you mean 'offset against liabilities'? I understood the future fund (around $130b at last check) was a sovereign wealth fund like any other in the world.
I didn't think there was actually a legislative requirement to put it towards public sector super.

 

[Kwality]

As the days go by the latest thought bubbles on the GST are going down that well trodden path frequented by the political class - there are more votes in retaining the status quo at the next Federal election.

A successful WA GST ticket for the Senate only is surely the only way the rest of the Australia will give up the benefits ($s) they currently enjoy at WA's expense. Look at the handouts extracted by the cross bench & WA needs to join those benefitting by the pork barrel riders.

 

[Power Raid]

What do you mean 'offset against liabilities'? I understood the future fund (around $130b at last check) was a sovereign wealth fund like any other in the world.
I didn't think there was actually a legislative requirement to put it towards public sector super.

my understanding is the federal government must hand all surplus back to the states unless it was allocated to expenditure or a future liability. It was something referred to back in school about our commonwealth. I'll try and dig up the legislative support but had no luck finding anything specific supporting this learning.

Where I think it might be is in fact in it's absence rather than existence. That is s51 of the constitution provides powers to the federal government to do certain things and setting up investment funds is not one of them. Thus to enable them to have the power to have an investment fund, they back to back it against activities they do have the power. ie the cost of having a defence force is superannuation.....this superannuation liability is offset by the future fund.

 

[Power Raid]

As the days go by the latest thought bubbles on the GST are going down that well trodden path frequented by the political class - there are more votes in retaining the status quo at the next Federal election.

A successful WA GST ticket for the Senate only is surely the only way the rest of the Australia will give up the benefits ($s) they currently enjoy at WA's expense. Look at the handouts extracted by the cross bench & WA needs to join those benefitting by the pork barrel riders.

hello Catalonia!

it will only get fixed when the differential is not so great. What would be fair though is adding gambling tax revenues, along with smokes and alcohol, into the calculation. Then pull the sub contract from SA and give it to WA where all the maintenance will be anyway.