Who has the best youth - 2018 edition

[Kangaroos4eva]

Content with Collingwood's, not the best but certainly not the worst. De Goey played some top notch footy at the back end of the year, specifically his games against West Coast and Hawthorn where he led our midfield by himself. I liken him to Dayne Beams.

Darcy Moore to go to the next level needs to become a defender. Either to improve his contested ability to go back up forward or move there permanently. I think his athleticism is better suited in the back line, I liken him to Michael Hurley.

Brayden Maynard is the gem - looked insanely good when running through midfield as a line breaker which we haven't had in a while. He's rough and is strong defensively, he uses it well and is tough to tackle when on a run. Not sure who to compare him to - Zak Jones or our old Ben Johnson perhaps

Josh Daicos - looking good as a young defensive forward. I think he'll be a solid 10-20 ranked player on the list, plays like Daniel Rioli.
Sam McLarty hasn't played yet but stood strong in the VFL at the back end of the year. I think he's a good chance to make it.
Tom Phillips - can run all day and possesses a lethal set of hands. Needs to fix up his disposal or he won't make it though, as he's purely a winger.
Jaidyn Stephenson - I see far more potential than the accepted winger/half-forward role people reckon he'll be. When playing through midfield in the U18's, I saw Nat Fyfe but perhaps that's too much of a ceiling to put just yet.
Nathan Murphy - very good mark and kick of the pill. Is a very safe option in my eyes and has a lot more development left than his U18 peers.

James Aish - won't make it. Just doesn't offer enough.
Matthew Scharenberg - I'm still not sold. Slow, standard marking and isn't best 22 atm so won't get the natural nurturing he needs.
Ben Crocker - has two years left on his deal but looks too basic to make it. Slow, can't crumb, standard marking and doesn't tackle.
Callum Brown - far too vanilla for mine. Won't make it, especially in our midfield.

So the pies are actually serious about playing Moore in defence, so who is left up forward to play KPF half-decently, as Mason Cox would struggle big time without proper support and he isn't a massive goal-kicker anyway.

 

[rado]

Yeah there’s a fair argument here. Richmond’s best players are pretty much all in that older bracket (2009 draft or earlier), whereas the Bombers have some players in that older group (Hurley, Hooker, Zaka and Goddard ‘08 draft or earlier) but have Heppell (2010 draft), Daniher (2012), Merrett (2013), Fantasia (2013), McKenna (2013), Parish (2015) Walla (2015) & McGrath (2016) as key cogs now and into the future. Them being young doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll develop further into the future but combining them with Langford/Laverde/Francis/Stewart/Stringer/Smith/Begley/Ridley/Saad all 24 or younger means there’s scope for growth there.

To say Richmond's best players are pretty much all from 2009 draft or earlier is a bit uninformed.

I'd argue Caddy (2010), Prestia (2010), Grimes (2010), J.Townsend (2011), B.Ellis (2011), Vlastuin (2012), McIntosh (2012), Nankervis (2013), Butler (2014) 30 goals,Lambert (2015), Castagna (2015) 26 goals, Rioli (2015) 25 goals, and Graham (2016) as key cogs now and in the future are better than that list above.

As for the group you are combining them with, I don't even know who half those players are (Ridley? Lol)

Bolton, Markov, Short, Menadue, C.Ellis etc who were a whisker away from a vfl premiership should help us stay near the top.

 

[Le Archie]

To say Richmond's best players are pretty much all from 2009 draft or earlier is a bit uninformed.

I'd argue Caddy (2010), Prestia (2010), Grimes (2010), J.Townsend (2011), B.Ellis (2011), Vlastuin (2012), McIntosh (2012), Nankervis (2013), Butler (2014) 30 goals,Lambert (2015), Castagna (2015) 26 goals, Rioli (2015) 25 goals, and Graham (2016) as key cogs now and in the future are better than that list above.

As for the group you are combining them with, I don't even know who half those players are (Ridley? Lol)

Bolton, Markov, Short, Menadue, C.Ellis etc who were a whisker away from a vfl premiership should help us stay near the top.

I agree, Richmond is da best.

 

[schmuttt]

It's all well and good to play well in some meaningless games during the year, but in your most important game in round 23 with finals on the line against a nothing-to-play-for Collingwood their performances weren't good enough.
I'm not saying that they aren't capable, but they haven't showed it on the biggest stage like Richmond's young players have yet.

Saying it is easier for 5 game veteran Jack Graham to stand up in the biggest game of the year against the best team all year to kick 3 goals and destroy sloane all because his team is playing well is as you would say 'terribly uninformed'. I would say he, along with our other young players were a big reason we were 'dominating the opposition'. Without Graham, Butler, Rioli and Castagna I doubt we make the grand final at all let alone win it.

Throw in a premiership winning first ruck in Toby Nankervis, and a premiership winning quarterback in Nick Vlastuin who barely fall out this weird criteria by being 23 years old, and I would say Richmond's youth is comfortably in front.

Ah, the old ‘premiership players are automatically stars’ debate.

 

[rado]

I agree, Richmond is da best.

A premiership would suggest so

 

[rado]

Ah, the old ‘premiership players are automatically stars’ debate.

I don't see how there's a debate at all xoxo

 

[Le Archie]

A premiership would suggest so

Mitch Morton is a premiership player, Jonathon Simpkin is a premiership player, Jarryd Blair is a premiership player. Plenty of average footballers have been part of premiership winning teams, it doesn't make them excellent players, it just so happens Richmond happened to have had about 10 playing on grand final day. More power to you.

 

[Richo83]

Yeah there’s a fair argument here. Richmond’s best players are pretty much all in that older bracket (2009 draft or earlier), whereas the Bombers have some players in that older group (Hurley, Hooker, Zaka and Goddard ‘08 draft or earlier) but have Heppell (2010 draft), Daniher (2012), Merrett (2013), Fantasia (2013), McKenna (2013), Parish (2015) Walla (2015) & McGrath (2016) as key cogs now and into the future. Them being young doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll develop further into the future but combining them with Langford/Laverde/Francis/Stewart/Stringer/Smith/Begley/Ridley/Saad all 24 or younger means there’s scope for growth there.

There's growth, but you'd hope that at least one of those players had the kind of dominance that a premiership player like Martin, Bontempelli, Mitchell, Swan, Ablett etc can pull off. Most premiership teams have tlat least one star who wins games on the outside and inside and kick goals.

Heppell is a nice accumulator, but he's not nearly as damaging as those players were in their premiership years. Same goes for Merrett. Need some star factor.

 

[00Stinger]

To say Richmond's best players are pretty much all from 2009 draft or earlier is a bit uninformed.

I'd argue Caddy (2010), Prestia (2010), Grimes (2010), J.Townsend (2011), B.Ellis (2011), Vlastuin (2012), McIntosh (2012), Nankervis (2013), Butler (2014) 30 goals,Lambert (2015), Castagna (2015) 26 goals, Rioli (2015) 25 goals, and Graham (2016) as key cogs now and in the future are better than that list above.

As for the group you are combining them with, I don't even know who half those players are (Ridley? Lol)

Bolton, Markov, Short, Menadue, C.Ellis etc who were a whisker away from a vfl premiership should help us stay near the top.

So those mentioned payers are better than Martin, Reiwoldt, Rance, Cotchin & Houli?

 

[carnthedons]

There's growth, but you'd hope that at least one of those players had the kind of dominance that a premiership player like Martin, Bontempelli, Mitchell, Swan, Ablett etc can pull off. Most premiership teams have tlat least one star who wins games on the outside and inside and kick goals.

Heppell is a nice accumulator, but he's not nearly as damaging as those players were in their premiership years. Same goes for Merrett. Need some star factor.

Yeah no doubt that in/out mid is a gap. I think in time one of Stringer, Parish or Begley could be that. On those you mentioned, think we’ve got players who stylistically could be Mitchell (Merrett) and Ablett (McGrath) but it remains to be seen if they’ll get that far or if that’s the way the team will be constructed.

Interesting times ahead though

 

[carnthedons]

To say Richmond's best players are pretty much all from 2009 draft or earlier is a bit uninformed.

I'd argue Caddy (2010), Prestia (2010), Grimes (2010), J.Townsend (2011), B.Ellis (2011), Vlastuin (2012), McIntosh (2012), Nankervis (2013), Butler (2014) 30 goals,Lambert (2015), Castagna (2015) 26 goals, Rioli (2015) 25 goals, and Graham (2016) as key cogs now and in the future are better than that list above.

As for the group you are combining them with, I don't even know who half those players are (Ridley? Lol)

Bolton, Markov, Short, Menadue, C.Ellis etc who were a whisker away from a vfl premiership should help us stay near the top.

I forgot, you won the flag and are therefore are better than every other club irrespective of what you’re talking about. If you honestly think that list of young players is better that the Essendon one, I’m not sure there’s hope for you.

Surely Heppell, Daniher & Merrett are better than any of those Richmond players. Rioli looks good, I’ll give you that, the others are role players. Every team needs them but to suggest they’re a better list of young players is ludicrous.

Richmond won the flag because every player bought into a system and your top 3 players (all pre-2010 draft) had fantastic seasons (especially in the finals). That’s it.

 

[Trav 20]

I forgot, you won the flag and are therefore are better than every other club irrespective of what you’re talking about.

We're in an era I doubt I've seen before where ordinary teams like Richmond and Footscray can with the flag. It gives their supporters an inflated view of some of their players.

 

[rado]

I forgot, you won the flag and are therefore are better than every other club irrespective of what you’re talking about. If you honestly think that list of young players is better that the Essendon one, I’m not sure there’s hope for you.

Surely Heppell, Daniher & Merrett are better than any of those Richmond players. Rioli looks good, I’ll give you that, the others are role players. Every team needs them but to suggest they’re a better list of young players is ludicrous.

Richmond won the flag because every player bought into a system and your top 3 players (all pre-2010 draft) had fantastic seasons (especially in the finals). That’s it.

Well yeh, we won the flag so I guess we are better than everyone else at this point in time?

Heppell is less than a year younger than Dustin Martin, let's save you the embarrassment of comparing those two. Merrett is not a better player than Dion the human meatball Prestia, at best I will say Merrett is on par. Daniher is clearly a gun who I will give you but is offset by the rest of our group being better than Parish, Walla (who??) and co.

'Everyone bought into a system with 3 top players having fantastic seasons, that's it.' - hahaha so 19 plebs and 3 guns won us a premiership? You have 3-4 nice players and 38 plebs, so shouldn't you be winning the flag next year? Enjoy mediocrity chief haha

 

[rado]

We're in an era I doubt I've seen before where ordinary teams like Richmond and Footscray can with the flag. It gives their supporters an inflated view of some of their players.

Twav 20?? Is that you Twavis Johnstone???

Id probably focus on making sure your young superstars can get you to the finals for the first time in 12 years before taking jabs at premiership heroes from the bulldogs and richmond

 

[zucchini]

Mitch Morton is a premiership player, Jonathon Simpkin is a premiership player, Jarryd Blair is a premiership player. Plenty of average footballers have been part of premiership winning teams, it doesn't make them excellent players, it just so happens Richmond happened to have had about 10 playing on grand final day. More power to you.

Rest assured, Richmond will be a great watch next year.
Just sit back and smile and wonder WTF happened in 2017.

 

[00Stinger]

Surely Heppell, Daniher & Merrett are better than any of those Richmond players. Rioli looks good, I’ll give you that, the others are role players. Every team needs them but to suggest they’re a better list of young players is ludicrous.

TBF Heppell is 25 going on 26 next year and Daniher 23 going on 24.

Hardly young

 

[Trav 20]

Twav 20?? Is that you Twavis Johnstone???

Id probably focus on making sure your young superstars can get you to the finals for the first time in 12 years before taking jabs at premiership heroes from the bulldogs and richmond

Travis Johnstone wore no. 16, Einstein.

I'm just stating the obvious. Ordinary teams can now win premierships, because unlike every other era I can remember there are no stand out teams.

No need to shed tears over factual statements.

 

[rado]

Travis Johnstone wore no. 16, Einstein.

I'm just stating the obvious. Ordinary teams can now win premierships, because unlike every other era I can remember there are no stand out teams.

No need to shed tears over factual statements.

Sorry Johno, I don't pay attention to average players.

Only been shedding tears of joy for the past 2 months Johno, tears of joy brother

 

[beema limapep]

I don't see how there's a debate at all xoxo

Pretty much.

And what if Melbourne's young stars who cant even make finals?

Nothing more to discuss.

 

[Richo83]

I forgot, you won the flag and are therefore are better than every other club irrespective of what you’re talking about. If you honestly think that list of young players is better that the Essendon one, I’m not sure there’s hope for you.

Surely Heppell, Daniher & Merrett are better than any of those Richmond players. Rioli looks good, I’ll give you that, the others are role players. Every team needs them but to suggest they’re a better list of young players is ludicrous.

Richmond won the flag because every player bought into a system and your top 3 players (all pre-2010 draft) had fantastic seasons (especially in the finals). That’s it.

Also because structure is really important and every premiership team has to havea fairly developed offensive and defensive structure. Richmond may not have the most talented list, but their gameplan used the pace of the list to its advantage. They also had enough of the important pieces: a true inside/outside star, a defensive general to be able to make all the role players in defense and midfield work. Then a web of small forwards.

The challenge for Essendon is to find the stars to make their midfield and backline work. I think having a general for the forwardline isn't as important as forwards often play their own game whereas defenses work as a team.

Games are not played on paper and if Essendon finds a gameplan that finds the necessary pieces and enhances their team's strengths they'll improve.

This is why this thread is misleading: no every piece is equally important and coaching plans matter arguably more than ever. Hardwick's asasistants had a massive say in ensuring Richmond won the flag.

 

[Richo83]

Yeah no doubt that in/out mid is a gap. I think in time one of Stringer, Parish or Begley could be that. On those you mentioned, think we’ve got players who stylistically could be Mitchell (Merrett) and Ablett (McGrath) but it remains to be seen if they’ll get that far or if that’s the way the team will be constructed.

Interesting times ahead though

I don't think Stringer has the tank or the will to in in the effort to become what he could be. He could become a star midfielder but hasn't.

Parish strikes me as another nice accumulator. Could improve but I haven't seen star midfielder potential yet.

Merrett plays too much outside for the Mitchell comparisons to hold at the moment.

McGrath may be your guy and might become the next Mitchell.

What's also important is for these guys to git the scoreboard. Can McGrath and co improve their forward output?

 

[carnthedons]

TBF Heppell is 25 going on 26 next year and Daniher 23 going on 24.

Hardly young

I don’t disagree, but they’re all from drafts after Martin/Rance/Cotchin

 

[carnthedons]

I don't think Stringer has the tank or the will to in in the effort to become what he could be. He could become a star midfielder but hasn't.

Parish strikes me as another nice accumulator. Could improve but I haven't seen star midfielder potential yet.

Merrett plays too much outside for the Mitchell comparisons to hold at the moment.

McGrath may be your guy and might become the next Mitchell.

What's also important is for these guys to git the scoreboard. Can McGrath and co improve their forward output?

Yeah I get the doubts and they’re fair (aside from Parish, he’s Ben Cousins mkII). Merrett’s been playing outside due to gameplay and the fact he’s one of the best kicks in the comp. Stringer’s dropped 4 kgs and wants to play in the middle.

I don’t think we necessarily need these guys hitting the scoreboard though when we’ve got Daniher (65 goals in 2017), Hooker (41), Stewart (22 in 16 games), Raz (39), Walla (34) and the likes of Smith and Stringer. It’d be nice to have a goal per game 25+ touch mid but not sure it’s 100% necessary.

 

[Satchel]

Hawks have their pets paws all over this voting too ?

Incredible.

They would be closer to bottom 3 youth than top 3.

I didn't realise the concept of a successful list was the best under 23 year olds - I thought it was flags. It can be difficult to grab the best kids when your first draft pick is no 20 but as long as your happy

 

[footyfan1978]

Stop sooking over what O'Meara cost you. ha ha