Banter Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood?

[PieLebo87]

Mainly here so we can enjoy the LOLs afterwards at the end of 2023, but also an interesting discussion point.

I’m in genuine two minds and can’t call it, but who do you see finishing higher in 2023?

Who is positioned better from a list/team perspective?

Let the games begin…

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[doppleganger]

So the ladder is a joke but then you use the ladder to minimise Carlton's wins...?

Either the ladder at this point accurately reflects the quality of the team or it doesn't and is meaningless. You can't have it both ways

Of course you can have it both ways.

A ladder after round 3, when some teams have had byes and others haven't is obviously flawed.

And even at rd3, you can already get a read on teams that are going to be bottom 4 battlers and those who are looking strong.

Carlton aint played any strong teams yet, the Pies have.

 

[Fadge]

Of course you can have it both ways.

A ladder after round 3, when some teams have had byes and others haven't is obviously flawed.

And even at rd3, you can already get a read on teams that are going to be bottom 4 battlers and those who are looking strong.

Carlton aint played any strong teams yet, the Pies have.

I really didn't think it was that difficult a concept to understand...

 

[carlton_99]

Nah, I'm using the opposition to minimise Carlton's wins.

North and Richmond will definitely be bottom 4 teams, and based on what Brisbane have produced so far this year, they'll be doing well to avoid bottom 4.

Collingwood were 0-3 just last week and now win one game and you have them top 4.

But Brisbane who are 0-3 are gonna struggle to get out of the bottom 4...

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

Well we beat Brizzy more than what the blues did so we are better.

But The Dockers beat Brisbane by more than both of us so THEY are better.

Fremantle vow to make you bow

The cow will meow to the sow

What do the Blues say now?


Curnow will make The Roos go wow!!!!!!!



KUNG-POW!!!

 

[Fadge]

Collingwood were 0-3 just last week and now win one game and you have them top 4.

But Brisbane who are 0-3 are gonna struggle to get out of the bottom 4...

Now you're getting it...

I have Brisbane bottom 2 at the moment.

Just below Carlton and just ahead of Richmond.

 

[carlton_99]

Of course you can have it both ways.

A ladder after round 3, when some teams have had byes and others haven't is obviously flawed.

And even at rd3, you can already get a read on teams that are going to be bottom 4 battlers and those who are looking strong.

Carlton aint played any strong teams yet, the Pies have.

I agree the ladder is meaningless at this point of the season especially with these early byes. All that matters is banking as many wins as you can. Brisbane at the Gabba is a massive win when you consider nobody had beaten them there since late 2022. Add to that we had a slow start and had significant outs and it only gets better.

The Lions losing to Collingwood yesterday doesn't impact on the quality of win we got against them. Form like anything else varies week to week.

If Brisbane now win 6 of their next 7 does your win against them get better or something?

 

[Robertio]

Good point.

Yep, the ladder is indeed a joke at this time of the year, given some teams have played opponents who will likely finish in the top 4, whilst some other teams have only played (and scraped in against) bottom 4 teams.

Not naming any teams specifically....

When the Pies were just scraping in you were saying they trained for it and was great footy, can't have it both ways.

 

[adammania9]

Carlton players taking bribes, that doesn’t sound right.

Imagine if you did that in modern times, you’d be sent into the football abyss for 25 years as punishment.

Isn’t this literally what has happened to Carlton?

 

[Robertio]

Now you're getting it...

I have Brisbane bottom 2 at the moment.

Just below Carlton and just ahead of Richmond.

"At the moment" does that mean you'll be changing your predictions every week.

 

[Arr0w]

Collingwood were 0-3 just last week and now win one game and you have them top 4.

But Brisbane who are 0-3 are gonna struggle to get out of the bottom 4...

Fadge logic, Pies flag favourites after beating the Lions who he ranks bottom 4, after having them flag favourites preseason

Ned Guy's abacus getting a work out

 

[Robertio]

Isn’t this literally what has happened to Carlton?

What did happen to Carlton.

 

[Fadge]

I agree the ladder is meaningless at this point of the season especially with these early byes. All that matters is banking as many wins as you can. Brisbane at the Gabba is a massive win when you consider nobody had beaten them there since late 2022. Add to that we had a slow start and had significant outs and it only gets better.

The Lions losing to Collingwood yesterday doesn't impact on the quality of win we got against them. Form like anything else varies week to week.

If Brisbane had have gone bang, bang against Freo and Collingwood (who are clearly currently off the pace in comparison to the better teams in the comp), there would be massive kudos associated with Carlton's win against them.

But Brisbane have been average in their other two games, with the exception of an impressive quarter here and there (in the same way as they performed against Carlton), so clearly it does 'impact the quality of the win Carlton got against them'.

 

[Fadge]

"At the moment" does that mean you'll be changing your predictions every week.

Indeed - I review all new data as it presents itself and reassess, like all great mathematicians do.

 

[nahnah]

just slowly building into our season this year, making sure we are in form for the finals this time

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

Yep we won this View attachment 1942612

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

That was 2023 it's now 2024 mate.

 

[carlton_99]

If Brisbane had have gone bang, bang against Freo and Collingwood (who are clearly currently off the pace in comparison to the better teams in the comp), there would be massive kudos associated with Carlton's win against them.

But Brisbane have been average in their other two games, with the exception of an impressive quarter here and there (in the same way as they performed against Carlton), so clearly it does 'impact the quality of the win Carlton got against them'.

Form changes week to week. If Brisbane win 6 of their next 7 does that now make your win against them better?

 

[Zevon]

Ah that’s right. Either Collingwood or Carlton had a win last night. I should have know this thread would fire up again this morning.

Really dropped the ball here didn’t I folks

 

[Fadge]

Form changes week to week. If Brisbane win 6 of their next 7 does that now make your win against them better?

Of course it does, but they'd need a dramatic turnaround in form for that to happen.

But even then, it would be a matter of Carlton and Collingwood getting them at the right time of the year.

They are currently a Lachie Neale injury away from bottom 4, with Coleman and Ashcroft out.

 

[carlton_99]

Ah that’s right. Either Collingwood or Carlton had a win last night. I should have know this thread would fire up again this morning.

Really dropped the ball here didn’t I folks

Expect another spike around 7pm today win, lose or draw.

 

[doppleganger]

I agree the ladder is meaningless at this point of the season especially with these early byes. All that matters is banking as many wins as you can.

Brisbane at the Gabba is a massive win when you consider nobody had beaten them there since late 2022. Add to that we had a slow start and had significant outs and it only gets better.

Stop looking backwards. This thread is about 2024.

In 2024, Brisbane are shizen and the GABBA is a guaranteed win for a travelling team.

The Lions losing to Collingwood yesterday doesn't impact on the quality of win we got against them. Form like anything else varies week to week.

Correct, in 2024 the Lions have looked crap.

Getting a soft win over a team that is struggling is still a soft win.

Pies needed a soft kill and got one.

If Brisbane now win 6 of their next 7 does your win against them get better or something?

Nup, we lucky to get Brisbane when they were playing poorly.

When you play a team is important.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If Brisbane had have gone bang, bang against Freo and Collingwood (who are clearly currently off the pace in comparison to the better teams in the comp), there would be massive kudos associated with Carlton's win against them.

But Brisbane have been average in their other two games, with the exception of an impressive quarter here and there (in the same way as they performed against Carlton), so clearly it does 'impact the quality of the win Carlton got against them'.

Playing with 6 of our best 22 out and to quote from Voss when asked about our approach to our early Rd 2 bye post the Richmond game - "We've decided to go to the line hard over the last four weeks. It probably means we haven't been as pristine, because we've trained pretty hard up until that point in time. We've deliberately over this last month, kept training up and we obviously got the game exposure we needed"

I'm sure we're all very worried about our form being 2-0 and all

 

[carlton_99]

When you play a team is important.

Exactly when you play a team is important. One week they can be up and the next down. So Brisbane losing to Freo and the Pies does not impact our win against them whatsoever.

Judge the quality of Carlton's win on Brisbane's performance in that specific game.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

Well, not really.

2023 was the exception to the rule...

I know mate you won a flag in September, and actually didn't crap the bed in a grand final that went right down to the wire for a change!

That's not how it normally works for Collingwood now is it? So yeah i agree with you buddy, 2023 was very much an exception to the rule!

 

[Aphrodite]

The last 25 years has just been a patient build to peak at a flukey Preliminary Final appearance, in a year that saw Collingwood fluke a flag.

 

[Fadge]

Nup, we lucky to get Brisbane when they were playing poorly.

When you play a team is important.

Spot on.

Assessing fixture difficulty at the beginning of the year, based on the previous season's finishing positions, is a waste of time.

Assessing fixture difficulty at the end of the season based on that season's finishing positions is a little better.

But to truly and accurately assess fixture difficulty, you have to assess the form and line-up of the opposition on a week to week basis.